.348 Winchester versus .45-70 in terms of recoil

Welcome to the Leverguns.Com Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here ... politely.

Moderators: AmBraCol, Hobie

Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.

Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Post Reply
David LaPell
Levergunner
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:28 am

.348 Winchester versus .45-70 in terms of recoil

Post by David LaPell »

I recently found a horde of Winchester & Browning Model 71 rifles in one gun shop. A guy in his 70's put his two Model 71 Winchester Deluxe rifles on consignment as well as three Browning Model 71's that were still new in the box. It seems this guy had a major thing for the Model 71 and bought the three Brownings for his three sons and not one of them showed any interest. When I got there, two of the Model 71 Brownings were gone, the last is a carbine. The guy wanted $925 for it, still in the box, still in the wrapping, and is beautiful to see, I plan on hunting with the darn thing so it's on hold right now for me with a deposit, and another local gun shop has half a case of new Winchester ammo so I have been picking up a box at a time.
My question is, having never fired one, what's the recoil like compared to a .45-70? I have owned several .45-70's over the years including a Marlin 1895 but have never had the chance at a .348 Winchester although it's one of my bucket list guns. I got the Browning (couldn't afford the Winchester 71's) because I wanted a gun to hunt with where I didn't feel too guilty using it and since it's a carbine, it will be better for where I hunt.
User avatar
crs
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3153
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:32 am
Location: Republic of Texas
Contact:

Re: .348 Winchester versus .45-70 in terms of recoil

Post by crs »

I have never owned a M71 .348, but have shot one offhand at a private range and have an opinion. They are pretty, handle well, and are accurate, BUT for me, they kick too hard shooting off hand, much less from a bench rest. More than my Miroku 1895 .405 with factory 300 grain ammo at 2225fps, but less than 400 grain DG bullets at 2100 fps(these are NOT fun plinking loads).
For me, my heavier 1886 .45-90 is more pleasant to shoot with factory 45-70 300 grain bullets at 1850 fps, 300 grain hand loads at 2200 fps and 450 grain bullets at 2150 fps.
The sharp recoil of the M71 with factory ammo reminds me of my 1886 with hot hand loads such as 300 grain bullets at 2600 fps - those are no fun from a bench rest and will even get your attention even shooting off hand.

So, it all depends on the shooter, the rifle, and the ammo!
Enjoy your rifle.
CRS, NRA Benefactor Member, TSRA, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center
Android Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/
User avatar
JimT
Shootist
Posts: 5468
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:04 pm

Re: .348 Winchester versus .45-70 in terms of recoil

Post by JimT »

Recoil is subjective ... depends on what the shooter is used to and can tolerate. I shot my Model 71 for years with the heavy 250 gr. bullets and never thought a thing about it. Shoot it from the standing position first. You will find that much more comfortable than seated at the bench and if you get used to offhand recoil the other will be more easily adjusted to.

Here's an old leverguns article I wrote years ago ... if you haven't read it ...
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/model71.htm
User avatar
fordwannabe
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3369
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:52 am
Location: Womelsdorf PA

Re: .348 Winchester versus .45-70 in terms of recoil

Post by fordwannabe »

Thanks Jim good read.
As to recoil, I am a big boy and not too recoil sensitive. I currently shoot 3 45-70s and enjoy them. The recoil from the 348 will get your attention that first shot. It is not extreme but more than some want to deal with. My 71 is a 1939 and it came with a box of Winchester silver tips......with 14 rounds left in the box. Said by the seller to be the only box Dad ever bought for it. There is no wear on the bolt sides of this rifle.
a Pennsylvanian who has been accused of clinging to my religion and my guns......Good assessment skills.
User avatar
crs
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3153
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:32 am
Location: Republic of Texas
Contact:

Re: .348 Winchester versus .45-70 in terms of recoil

Post by crs »

JimT - Recoil is not entirely subjective. Here are two counter examples:
1. Recoil of a shoulder arm (rifle or shotgun) badly bruises biceps and shoulder muscles.
2. Recoil of a shoulder arm (rifle or shotgun) causes retinal tear or detachment.

These are physical damages and not just in a persons mind. In fact, the shooter may not even experience pain when the damage is done.

I do agree that people perceive and manage recoil in their own individual way and that learning to shoot properly is an important part of managing recoil and in accurate shooting.

Oops - lunch time, gotta go.
CRS, NRA Benefactor Member, TSRA, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center
Android Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/
User avatar
JimT
Shootist
Posts: 5468
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:04 pm

Re: .348 Winchester versus .45-70 in terms of recoil

Post by JimT »

crs wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:57 pm JimT - Recoil is not entirely subjective. Here are two counter examples:
1. Recoil of a shoulder arm (rifle or shotgun) badly bruises biceps and shoulder muscles.
2. Recoil of a shoulder arm (rifle or shotgun) causes retinal tear or detachment.

These are physical damages and not just in a persons mind. In fact, the shooter may not even experience pain when the damage is done.

I do agree that people perceive and manage recoil in their own individual way and that learning to shoot properly is an important part of managing recoil and in accurate shooting.

Oops - lunch time, gotta go.
Yep. That's what I meant. :D
User avatar
OldWin
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8963
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:38 pm

Re: .348 Winchester versus .45-70 in terms of recoil

Post by OldWin »

Agree. My 71 is my hardest kicking levergun. I shot a moose with it in 2009. It was the last time I fired it.
Everyone swoons over the 71, but there is a reason most are in such good shape.
They are beautiful, but most of the time, just too much gun. Depending, of course, on your locale.
I have an 1886 in 45-90, and find it more pleasant to shoot.
"Oh bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
BigSky56
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2356
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:49 pm
Location: NW Montana

Re: .348 Winchester versus .45-70 in terms of recoil

Post by BigSky56 »

A 348 will thump on you especially with 250s. I never noticed it when shooting game but a session at the range will make a sore spot those steel butt plates are rough. danny
Leverluver
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1000
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:02 pm
Location: WY

Re: .348 Winchester versus .45-70 in terms of recoil

Post by Leverluver »

I also have a love affair with the M71. A low serial deluxe was my second big game caliber rifle purchased back in 1972. That was followed by a Browning that I converted to 348AI (if you really want to get kicked) and a Browning 71 carbine a little later. I am also a great fan of the 45-70 and have fired that round at black powder velocities in Sharps rifles up to and including full bore hunting loads that will spin you like a weather cock with a really light rifle. As mentioned, recoil affect people in different ways. To me, the 348 is more similar to a high velocity rifle as the recoil is sharper whereas the 45-70, even when loaded to the max is more like a huge push. Photographed side by side, the muzzles probably don't fly into the air much differently but, again to me, the 71 came back with more speed so the recoil is dissipated over a shorter period of time and recoil is a force/time function. Not unlike CRS's comment about the 405 which I agree with as the 405s recoil (to me) is more a "shove" rifle rather than a "crack" rifle.

Now, on another point, the Browning butt plate is sort of a joke as it is basically a flat plate with nearly sharp corners. When comparing my original 71, with a more rounded butt plate, to my Brownings, the original has less felt recoil with identical loads. To me that is due to two things, one is the mentioned butt plate. the other is the often disputed comb redesign of the 71s after the war. In some literature of the time, Winchester supposedly lengthened the comb (shortened the grip area) of the post war models, among other things, to reduce recoil. Maybe that was their reason but I call horse pucky because my original is way more comfortable in any shooting position than the Brownings (which follow the post war design).

Get a good replacement recoil pad to replace the flat plate that comes with it and fire away. With the flat surface to start with, it is easier than other rifles to do so. IMO, it is one of the greatest rifles ever produced and to tell the truth, the Brownings are generally much more accurate than the originals. If you can handle the recoil of a 30-06 in a 7 pound rifle, you should have no issue with the M71. Plus it is a great cast rifle although you have to be more choosy as to the bullet as the Brownings have essentially no leade from chamber to rifling. An RCBS (comes out at ~210 grains) bullet at 1800fps is an absolute joy to shoot and is a great practice round and would also be no slouch for smaller deer size game. You have made a great purchase. Enjoy
User avatar
vancelw
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3926
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:56 pm
Location: 90% NE Texas and 10% SE Montana

Re: .348 Winchester versus .45-70 in terms of recoil

Post by vancelw »

JimT wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:16 pm
crs wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:57 pm JimT - Recoil is not entirely subjective. Here are two counter examples:
1. Recoil of a shoulder arm (rifle or shotgun) badly bruises biceps and shoulder muscles.
2. Recoil of a shoulder arm (rifle or shotgun) causes retinal tear or detachment.

These are physical damages and not just in a persons mind. In fact, the shooter may not even experience pain when the damage is done.

I do agree that people perceive and manage recoil in their own individual way and that learning to shoot properly is an important part of managing recoil and in accurate shooting.

Oops - lunch time, gotta go.
Yep. That's what I meant. :D
I'm with you fellers :D

Recoil is a real number, but it is in the eye of the beholder as well.
Weight of the rifle and weight & velocity of the projectile are the largest factors.
I've never thought of my .348 as being brutal on recoil. Don't enjoy it at the bench, but that is to be expected.
My .348 kicks less than my .405, less than my .35 Whelen, about the same as my .444 Marlin, and much, much less than several of my .45-70 loads (which vary from 18 to 38.5 ft-pounds)

$925 for a NIB carbine is a great buy. I have had several Winchester and Browning 71s. I am now down to an original M71 Deluxe Winchester and a B71 carbine. I almost took one to Africa 7 years ago, but ended up not taking any rifles so we could travel Europe for a week on the way home.

Relative?
I hated shooting my .325 WSM as bad as I did my .458 Lott, and the former had half the recoil of the latter.
"Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one less scoundrel in the world." - Thomas Carlyle
.45colt
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4720
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:00 am
Location: North Coast of America-Ohio

Re: .348 Winchester versus .45-70 in terms of recoil

Post by .45colt »

Please Delete, no need to rant on another post. Sorry.
User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 31933
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: .348 Winchester versus .45-70 in terms of recoil

Post by AJMD429 »

"...I almost took one to Africa 7 years ago, but ended up not taking any rifles so we could travel Europe for a week on the way home...."

Such a bummer....'Europe' used to be mostly free countries.... :|
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
HawkCreek
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 311
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:21 pm

Re: .348 Winchester versus .45-70 in terms of recoil

Post by HawkCreek »

I have a Browning 71 and a late production Winchester 71 rifle, never thought either recoiled particularly hard. Ballistically (on paper) the .348 is a pretty near match to a .30-06 and I always felt like they recoiled pretty close to the same as well.
flatnose
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 610
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:24 pm

Re: .348 Winchester versus .45-70 in terms of recoil

Post by flatnose »

The 348 rifle and the miroku 1886 rifle kick about the same. Full house loads in the 1886 do kick a bit more.
The 348 stocks are too short, and my crescent stock on the 1886 are both not ideal for heavy loads, or shooting from a bench. Recoil energy is about the same as a 30-06 healthy load, but feels a bit worse due to the stock configuration.
Post Reply