Stolen Winchester 1892

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DaveInPA
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Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by DaveInPA »

I got a call from the gunsmith to whom I shipped my Winchester 1892 for relining. All he received was an empty box. I'm going to file a police report for a stolen firearm tomorrow but in the meantime I'm posting this here:

Type: Lever action rifle
Make: Winchester
Model: 1892
Serial number: 100156
Barrel length: 24 inches
Caliber: .38 WCF AKA 38-40 Win
Finish: Metal has turned brown. Buttstock and forend are brown walnut wood.

The rifle is an antique manufactured in 1898 per the factory letter that I got from the Buffalo Bill Center of the Wild West.

Pictures of the stolen rifle are attached.

Any help in recovery will be appreciated.
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Tycer
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by Tycer »

Will keep an eye out. I have words, but they would all end up pelosi here
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Chuck 100 yd
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by Chuck 100 yd »

Well that sucks. I assume you have filed a claim with the shipper.
DaveInPA
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by DaveInPA »

Thanks.

I will file the claim with UPS tomorrow after I file the police report. I only learned that the rifle went MIA this afternoon after John Taylor called me to let me know that all he got was an empty box with some bubble wrap in it.
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by ollogger »

Really hope you get it back, have my own nightmare story on shipping guns from 45 years ago



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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by Sixgun »

Will keep an eye out...I'm headed to the Lebanon show this coming weekend and sometimes these things show up by someone who does not look like a gun guy selling it. Plus, I know a lot of people in the Winchester and Colt 🌎 world.

My most hated character trait in a person is a child molester and people who abuse animals...next to that is a thief of other people's personal items......(bank robbers or corporate thieves don't bother me for some reason.)......but an individual who steals the sweat of another individual needs to be shot upon sight. My reputation around here is well known and at 64 I don't care....You loot---I shoot.

If I see this cat selling your rifle, I'll ask him to take a look at it and upon seeing the serial number, I'll raise the gun and beat him into next week with it. (Not really, but I'd like to :D )

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wm
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by wm »

DaveInPA wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:14 pm Thanks.

I will file the claim with UPS tomorrow after I file the police report. I only learned that the rifle went MIA this afternoon after John Taylor called me to let me know that all he got was an empty box with some bubble wrap in it.

SOunds like an inside job.

I hope this gets resolved favorably for you.

Do US Postal inspectors have any jurisdiction over private companies like UPS? Like wise does BATF, FBI, or Justice Department have a current investigation into such thefts? Seems like if they did they could identify a pattern such as a common transfer station or shift where these thefts take place. Obviously this is not a one off theft ....... it is certainly someone(s) who does this regularly.


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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by crs »

I rarely ship guns, but when I do, they are insured for big $$.

I know that does make up for the loss of a beloved gun, but it might help.

I hope yours is located and returned.
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DaveInPA
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by DaveInPA »

Thanks, gents.

AFAIK, USPS Postal Inspectors do not have jurisdiction, since it was sent by common carrier.

I insured the rifle for $1200 when I sent it, but the money isn't the point. It isn't like I'm going to find another 120 year Winchester 1892 just like this one.
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by Plottman »

I do hope you get it back in the same condition it was when you shipped it. God speed.
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by AJMD429 »

Will you cover the rental fee for the backhoe if we find the guy...? :twisted:
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fordwannabe
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by fordwannabe »

I gotta a guy with a backhoe here in PA. Yes six I was planning on it. I’ll buy the coffee.
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by Hawkeye2 »

AJMD429 wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:09 pm Will you cover the rental fee for the backhoe if we find the guy...? :twisted:
Hell, I'll dig the hole with a bent spoon by the light of 1 candle for nothing.
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by Sixgun »

fordwannabe wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:03 pm I gotta a guy with a backhoe here in PA. Yes six I was planning on it. I’ll buy the coffee.

See you there...........I'm thinking around ten, maybe earlier, maybe later...depending on when I decide to get up. Might make a powder run to Shydas gunshop and pick up 24 pounds of h-4895 for the military guns.-----The Count
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by Paladin »

Sorry to hear about the "shipping problem" FBI jurisdiction (interstate transport) along with ATF (Theft of firearm). Good luck, I have a backhoe or if in WV a map of all the abandoned mines.
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by GunnyMack »

Well that just sucks!

I had a shotgun stolen from my truck while I was at the gun club this past October! One of a kind, has Red Headed Stepchild engraved on the receiver- I sure would like it back!! If I found this guy that stole it I think I'd cut off his knee caps with a plastic knife just so it would hurt more! People suck!!!
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by .45colt »

What a Load Of Bulls***.....In todays world with All the computer tracking they should have NO problem finding out where Your Rifle is . I bet all of these shipping facilities have video cameras everywhere just like where I work. in August last year I bought a bunch of lead shot from a member here, it was shipped USPS and arrived on My porch 25 lb light. all taped up with packing tape like a little kid packed it. I filled out all the forms online bla,bla,bla. I told them that you just don't lose a 25lb bag of lead shot it was stolen. five months later no word from USPS mail recovery. The forum Member here made it right for Me. this stuff makes Me nuts. Somehow I hope they find that rifle.
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by marlinman93 »

Really sucks, and I've had it happen twice myself! Both times it was guns I purchased and were headed to me from the seller. Both times it was UPS, and the seller sent my funds back, and got his money from UPS. Unfortunately as you mentioned, I'd rather have had the guns instead of my money back.
I prefer USPS for shipping rifles, and have had no problems with them other than delays in delivery. They usually take longer than their estimated delivery time to get things done.
Hope you get the gun back, regardless. But hope UPS pays off quickly and makes it right without a hassle. I never over insure guns, or anything else. All the shippers require some proof of value, so unless you have a receipt showing what you paid, they'll likely need some hard evidence stating it's worth the amount you insured it for, and wont pay the extra you over insured it for.
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by Sixgun »

marlinman93 wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:30 pm. I never over insure guns, or anything else. All the shippers require some proof of value, so unless you have a receipt showing what you paid, they'll likely need some hard evidence stating it's worth the amount you insured it for, and wont pay the extra you over insured it for.
That's good to know Marlinman.......I always overinsure due to experience. Now when they ask for a receipt I'll dig out one from the hundreds of guns I bought over the years ...which is worth more...and show them that. Stinkin' ba stards.....The Count
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DaveInPA
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by DaveInPA »

Gentlemen,

Thank you for the backhoe offers and offers to keep an eye out.

I filed the report with the Plymouth Township PD this morning. The officer was very helpful, especially after he saw all the documentation that I prepared and gave to him (receipts, shipping records, photos of the rifle, etc.). The report will be uploaded to the FBI's National Crime Information Center.

I went to the UPS Store from where I shipped the rifle just got off the phone with the manager. He's opening a claim for me and I should get an email confirmation soon. I will then need to provide proof of value (which I have in spades).

Aside from that, I have sent emails and Facebook messages to about 25 local FFLs and to 14 FFLs out in WA, the area to which I shipped the rifle. I've gotten a few replies indicating that they'll keep an eye out.

Keeping my fingers crossed but trying not to get my hopes up.
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by GunnyMack »

The one and only time I tried to ship from a UPS store I was told they could NOT ship guns. I questioned them about the law saying a private party was allowed to ship to an FFL was legal but they insisted it was ag8the law so I went to the PO and away it went.
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by marlinman93 »

GunnyMack wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:53 pm The one and only time I tried to ship from a UPS store I was told they could NOT ship guns. I questioned them about the law saying a private party was allowed to ship to an FFL was legal but they insisted it was ag8the law so I went to the PO and away it went.
UPS stores will not allow or accept gun shipments anywhere. They have to be taken to a main depot for UPS to ship. The main depots have personnel trained to handle firearms shipments, where the outlets don't. When I do ship UPS, I have to take the packages to my main depot that's 10 miles away, even though I have an outlet 7 blocks away.
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by GunnyMack »

marlinman93 wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:19 pm
GunnyMack wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:53 pm The one and only time I tried to ship from a UPS store I was told they could NOT ship guns. I questioned them about the law saying a private party was allowed to ship to an FFL was legal but they insisted it was ag8the law so I went to the PO and away it went.
UPS stores will not allow or accept gun shipments anywhere. They have to be taken to a main depot for UPS to ship. The main depots have personnel trained to handle firearms shipments, where the outlets don't. When I do ship UPS, I have to take the packages to my main depot that's 10 miles away, even though I have an outlet 7 blocks away.
That's what I thought! Which leads me to the question of how did this happen to DaveinPA ...? Or did I miss read his post?!
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by .45colt »

I can tell You This....the little grocery chain I work for has 169 cameras to watch everything that happens in ALL the store...............the guy that was installing them told Me there were more Hidden.............. THIS IS AN INSIDE JOB ALL THE WAY................GLAD IT DIDN'T HAPPEN TO THIS OLD BUTCHER. :evil: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by marlinman93 »

GunnyMack wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:42 pm

That's what I thought! Which leads me to the question of how did this happen to DaveinPA ...? Or did I miss read his post?!
The title says, "Stolen Winchester 1892", so how does that relate to where the gun was shipped? At least as far as an outlet, depot, or gun shop?
I'm not sure what you mean Gunny? Are you saying he doesn't have a main UPS depot to send his gun through? I didn't see where he said which UPS outlet he shipped it through? And you can also ship guns through UPS by taking them to your local gun dealer, and they are picked up by a UPS driver at gun stores.
Just not the local UPS outlets.
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by GunnyMack »

Here Marlinman-
DaveInPA wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:58 pm Gentlemen,

Thank you for the backhoe offers and offers to keep an eye out.

I filed the report with the Plymouth Township PD this morning. The officer was very helpful, especially after he saw all the documentation that I prepared and gave to him (receipts, shipping records, photos of the rifle, etc.). The report will be uploaded to the FBI's National Crime Information Center.

I went to the UPS Store from where I shipped the rifle just got off the phone with the manager. He's opening a claim for me and I should get an email confirmation soon. I will then need to provide proof of value (which I have in spades).

Aside from that, I have sent emails and Facebook messages to about 25 local FFLs and to 14 FFLs out in WA, the area to which I shipped the rifle. I've gotten a few replies indicating that they'll keep an eye out.

Keeping my fingers crossed but trying not to get my hopes up.
This makes me wonder if the UPS STORE took Dave's gun and shipped the box!
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by twobit »

DaveInPA wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:02 pm I got a call from the gunsmith to whom I shipped my Winchester 1892 for relining. All he received was an empty box. I'm going to file a police report for a stolen firearm tomorrow but in the meantime I'm posting this here:

Type: Lever action rifle
Make: Winchester
Model: 1892
Serial number: 100156
Barrel length: 24 inches
Caliber: .38 WCF AKA 38-40 Win
Finish: Metal has turned brown. Buttstock and forend are brown walnut wood.

The rifle is an antique manufactured in 1898 per the factory letter that I got from the Buffalo Bill Center of the Wild West.

Pictures of the stolen rifle are attached.

Any help in recovery will be appreciated.
Good morning,

I have added your rifle into my research survey of the Model 1892 with a notation that it is stolen. As I collect data on additional rifles I will keep an eye out for your serial number and contact you if it is sold on line or in any auction. I currently have more than 12,200 rifles listed so I see LOTS of these rifles.

Best of luck
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marlinman93
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by marlinman93 »

GunnyMack wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:36 pm Here Marlinman-
DaveInPA wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:58 pm Gentlemen,

Thank you for the backhoe offers and offers to keep an eye out.

I filed the report with the Plymouth Township PD this morning. The officer was very helpful, especially after he saw all the documentation that I prepared and gave to him (receipts, shipping records, photos of the rifle, etc.). The report will be uploaded to the FBI's National Crime Information Center.

I went to the UPS Store from where I shipped the rifle just got off the phone with the manager. He's opening a claim for me and I should get an email confirmation soon. I will then need to provide proof of value (which I have in spades).

Aside from that, I have sent emails and Facebook messages to about 25 local FFLs and to 14 FFLs out in WA, the area to which I shipped the rifle. I've gotten a few replies indicating that they'll keep an eye out.

Keeping my fingers crossed but trying not to get my hopes up.
This makes me wonder if the UPS STORE took Dave's gun and shipped the box!
Or if Dave simply called it "UPS Store" and it's a depot? Or since it's antique he didn't say it was a gun? But I believe if you ship UPS and insure it, you have to claim what's in the package.
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by Griff »

marlinman93 wrote: Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:15 am Or if Dave simply called it "UPS Store" and it's a depot? Or since it's antique he didn't say it was a gun? But I believe if you ship UPS and insure it, you have to claim what's in the package.
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Post by Ray Newman »

When you file the police report, ask that is entered into the national stolen firearms data base. In many areas, this is not automatically done.

From what I have been told by former UPS employees as well as my former local gun shop owner, if you do not correctly identify what is in the package, UPS will deny the claim.
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by marlinman93 »

Griff wrote: Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:29 am
marlinman93 wrote: Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:15 am Or if Dave simply called it "UPS Store" and it's a depot? Or since it's antique he didn't say it was a gun? But I believe if you ship UPS and insure it, you have to claim what's in the package.
Aye... "Machined metal parts"
That wont work if it's eventually found. Or when you have to claim on it. How do you give them proof of value on "Machined Metal Parts"?
Now if it's USPS it's no problem, as they never are allowed to ask what's in the box. They can only ask those same 4 questions. SO I never even tell USPS what I'm shipping.
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by Ysabel Kid »

Sixgun wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:03 pm My most hated character trait in a person is a child molester and people who abuse animals...next to that is a thief of other people's personal items......(bank robbers or corporate thieves don't bother me for some reason.)......but an individual who steals the sweat of another individual needs to be shot upon sight. My reputation around here is well known and at 64 I don't care....You loot---I shoot.

If I see this cat selling your rifle, I'll ask him to take a look at it and upon seeing the serial number, I'll raise the gun and beat him into next week with it. (Not really, but I'd like to :D )
+1 spot on Six!

And, I'd probably risk the jail time to beat the turd senseless... :evil:
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by Booger Bill »

What I don't understand is why a thief would steal the gun out of the box and still ship the empty box. Like all of us I hate any type thief as I also have had a number of guns stolen. I still get upset when the subject comes up and it's been many years.
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by fordwannabe »

DaveinPa, I looked at the Lebanon pa gun show and did not see it. I then went over to Shyda’s and it wasn’t there either. Sorry but I tried.
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by marlinman93 »

Booger Bill wrote: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:24 pm What I don't understand is why a thief would steal the gun out of the box and still ship the empty box. Like all of us I hate any type thief as I also have had a number of guns stolen. I still get upset when the subject comes up and it's been many years.
If it was stolen by a UPS worker inside one of their shipping depots he'd need it out of the box. Then he'd need to deal with that box so it wont come up missing before he figures how to get it out of the warehouse. So sending the box along keeps the system from discovering the package is missing while he gets the gun outside the terminal.
Usually there's two people involved, so the thief can slip the gun into a UPS truck, and the package in another truck. Unless the thief is the truck driver, where he can steal the gun and keep the package moving to throw anyone off looking at him as the thief.
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by Pete44ru »

marlinman93 wrote: Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:15 am
I believe if you ship UPS and insure it, you have to claim what's in the package.
Correctamundo !

ALL common carriers (UPS/FEDEX/etc) require a declaration of contents for insurance - why I use USPS exclusively, since they don't require disclosure, except for 5 hazardous item that are constrained from mailing.

BTW, I often see a suggestion to lie about a common carrier shipment & insure it - why would somebody claim they're shipping something other than a firearm, and take a chance of being unable to recover a value if there's damage or loss ? (Scheech :roll: )

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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by wecsoger »

Booger Bill wrote: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:24 pm What I don't understand is why a thief would steal the gun out of the box and still ship the empty box.
The thief is inside the UPS system and here's why.

If the thief took the rifle and ditched the box then the package tracking would show exactly where the box was when it dropped off the system

Sending it along means it still hits the scanners, the barcode gets read, and reported to the UPS mother ship

This is my background, used to work for an overnight/next day shipping company. The shipping label barcode gets scanned and reported *multiple* times during the process.

Some are reported to the customer, some are not.

That's how you get your tracking info on where your package is at, and when it's going to be delivered.

Knowing UPS, and I do, they also have a bazoodle of cameras with video *everywhere* in their facilities.

If they cared enough they can pull up images of where the package was, when, who was around it, and what it looked like.

This issue has made a nice splash on the internet, maybe that's enough to the Loss Prevention folks to step up and dig into this.
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by GunnyMack »

Unless the ups driver took it out of the box just before he delivered it...
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by JB »

I had a Remington 700 disappear with USPS a year or two ago. The tracking showed it made it to a Pittsburgh post office, then just vanished. Obviously unlike a letter that could have fallen in a crack or got ate by a sorting machine, a scoped rifle didn't just vanish without being carried home by a postal worker. I filed a police report, but the rifle is long gone. Sorry to hear about your 92.
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by piller »

May the thief (or thieves) slip on ice and fall backwards to break a tailbone and both elbows and get a serious concussion that causes permanent visual disturbances.

Thieves are not human in my opinion.
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by marlinman93 »

wecsoger wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:23 pm

This issue has made a nice splash on the internet, maybe that's enough to the Loss Prevention folks to step up and dig into this.
The problem of thievery inside UPS, and Fed Ex is nothing new, and this getting publicity wont change anything. Unless the publicity was mainstream network news, the various carriers wont change a thing. If they catch the thief they may or may not even prosecute, because that prosecution brings more publicity, and they don't like that.
Years ago I had a friend who is a dealer in rare single shot rifles tell me he had two $30,000 rifles stolen. They were headed to the same buyer, and were shipped UPS overnight. He always ships expensive guns overnight just to keep them out of the system less, and ensure they get to the buyer. When the guns showed missing on the transit report he went down to the local UPS depot and demanded to talk to someone high up. A VP came to the desk and they went together to search the warehouse, since they never showed as departing the site. After an hour of unlocking doors for mechanical and storerooms, they found the guns in a janitor's closet stuffed back behind some pipes. Supposedly they were going to check surveillance cameras inside the warehouse, but he never heard from UPS again.
My guess is they saw who put them in the closet and fired him. Then swept it under the carpet to avoid publicity.
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cas
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by cas »

I shipped a rifle at a UPS store once, with full disclosure, apparently they didn't know the rules either.
Slow is just slow.
Booger Bill
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Re: Stolen Winchester 1892

Post by Booger Bill »

Not the same but to show how inventive inside thieves can Be, About four years ago we bought a computer chair from walmart. They got a new one from out of stock "un opened" for us, not the one on the floor as a demo. We get it home (noticed the box appeared to be retaped). Inside the box was not only the chair but about another thousand dollars worth of goodies packed around the chair! Computer games, movies, baby cloths etc. We took it back and they gave us a twenty dollar gift card for our honesty. The security guy says I guess we have a "inside problem here". By chance I am a 35 year retired security type myself and said "Ya think"?
The dishonest worker obviously was filling the box up with loot and planned to use their discount to help buy the chair that they also were going to buy for themselves.
They didn't plan on another salesman wheeling out a new chair in the box for us! I never did go back and ask how that one turned out. (They would have played dumb anyway).
Years ago I was having a friend recover my airplane. I ordered a new windshield for the project. It was delivered to my house in a huge box by I think Mountain freight?? There was a small hole punched in the box but I didn't think anything of it. The box and windshield sat unopened in my garage a year or so as this was a slow project. Finally I took it to my friends hanger and it might have been around a month or so until the project got far enough to where he was going to install the windshield. He opened the box and the windshield was shattered! I suppose in today's money the windshield was over a thousand dollars! I had to file a small claims law suite. I lost! The company sent a lawyer to fight the case. That lawyer probably cost them twice the cost of just giving me a new windshield! Of course they argued I waited too long to open the box.
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