357 coated hard cast loads

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mickbr
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357 coated hard cast loads

Post by mickbr »

I was wondering if anyone with software might be to model the following? The smallest powder loads to get 1700-1800fps from 24" barrel rossi 92 with a 158gn hitek type coated hardcast( 16BHn or so). I am trying to find the most economical powder I can load bulk for close range shooting. Might be too much a PIA to work out, thanks for reading anyway.
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earlmck
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Re: 357 coated hard cast loads

Post by earlmck »

That's not a hard one micbr. You're looking at max loads of H110, Lil' gun, or ww296 to get your velocity levels. And a case full of powder -- between 14 and 14.5 grains.
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Thunder50
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Re: 357 coated hard cast loads

Post by Thunder50 »

Funny you should ask this question. I have a Rossi 357 I just started working with, w/24" barrel. Just started trying out coated bullets. I am using a RNFP from Badman Bullets and crono'd 12.2 gr 2400 in 38 special cases @1635 fps. I tried Lil Gun and 300-mp in 357 cases, but accuracy wasn't there. 7.5 gr Unique was just at 1500fps. The loads in 38 special cases shows promise Primers look good and easy extraction, no leading. I think the Elmer Keith load was 13.5 gr 2400 and the 358429 boolit (173gr) in 38 special cases, so will work in that area as the 158 RNFP feed in my Rossi, easily. My book shows 13.5gr 2400 and the 158 as max. in 357mag cases. Using 38 special brass, I suspect around 12.5 gr 2400 will be what I am after and be kinder on the 38 spec. brass

I am looking for about 1700fps too and I think the load in 38 special brass might be just the ticket. Think I will order some 38+ brass from starline so as to differentiate these loads so as to not use these loads in my pistols!!
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COSteve
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Re: 357 coated hard cast loads

Post by COSteve »

Done
Last edited by COSteve on Sun May 30, 2021 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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gundownunder
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Re: 357 coated hard cast loads

Post by gundownunder »

Can't help you with the 158 grain yet as I haven't started to load them yet, but a hitech coated 180 grainer with 14 grains of 296 will do right at 1700 fps out of a 24" Rossi, 1625 fps out of a 20" Marlin, and 1550 fps out of a 16.5" Marlin.
To get 1700 fps with a 158 grain I'd probably try Alliant 2400 if you can get it where you are.
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Bronco
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Re: 357 coated hard cast loads

Post by Bronco »

I still have a love affair with 2400, going on 50 years ! I know I am old school, but that powder has just done what I wanted it to, enough for me to stay with it and I have tried the newer mag powders
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Re: 357 coated hard cast loads

Post by wm »

Win 296 has always been a go to powder for me for any magnum needs. I'm not sure it is better then anything else but it has never disappointed me in performance, price, or availability so I've lacked a reason to pursue others.

Kind of like me and the wife. My performance has been adequate, I'm cheap to feed and take care of, and always available. Probably the only reasons she has not pursued other options.


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Bronco
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Re: 357 coated hard cast loads

Post by Bronco »

Some of the reasons I like 2400 ! Have several cartridges that use it, 410, M1 carbine ,others and I can vary the level more if I choose to. 296 or 110 is great if going for max all the time but I found 2400 more versatile for my purposes. Not saying it is better powder, just a better fit for what I do.
Last edited by Bronco on Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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earlmck
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Re: 357 coated hard cast loads

Post by earlmck »

I didn't have much time this morning when I first answered mickbr's post so didn't give proper study to QuickLoad's findings. So yes, to make 1800 fps you need compressed loads of those usual suspects WW296, H110, Lil'gun. But you can have a load well into the 1700's from a number of other powders with 2400 looking real good and Blue Dot getting there with a couple grains less powder even than 2400. But if you wanted a heckuva load real economical, Power Pistol gets almost to 1700 fps with a max loading of less than 9 grains. Those "usual suspects" do make their velocity at less than SAAMI max pressure; the others need the full SAAMI max of 34k psi. But this is a pressure the Rossi handles with ease.

That said, my Rossi seems to shoot best with modest loads in the 1300 to 1500 fps range which I reach using a surplus powdered labeled "H108" which is a ball powder which I equate with 2400 for burning speed. Blue Dot is a great powder in my Rossi but I have more jugs of H108 than I have pounds of Blue Dot, so the old Scotsman uses the surplus powder and my eyes have got ginchy enough I can no longer tell the difference anyway.
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gundownunder
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Re: 357 coated hard cast loads

Post by gundownunder »

earlmck suggests that a compressed load of 296 would be needed to get 1800 fps with 296 and a 158 gr bullet, but I doubt that. My brother can clock 1700 fps with 14 grains of 296 with a 180 grain bullet, which is a good 2 grains under a full case load of powder with that bullet. Before the flame throwing starts, let me clarify. The bullet in question is an Accurate 36-175-B, it is very full in the nose so the over all bullet length is short for it's weight, which leaves plenty of powder space. The next point is that that bullet out of that rifle is not very accurate, it struggles to hit a pie plate at 50 meters while grouping 1.5" with my 20" Marlin cowboy and 1.0" out of a friends Marlin carbine.
I'm thinking that about 16 grains behind a HiTech coated 158 grain bullet will do between 1800 - 1900 fps without compression. DON"T USE THESE NUMBERS WITHOUT WORKING UP TO THEM APPROPRIATELY Due to my brothers Rossi not liking my goto load for my Marlin, I will need to work up these loads myself in order to give him a suitable load for shooting CLAS.
I see several people supporting 2400 for your purpose and I do have to agree with them. When 2400 was available here in West Oz I used it for both my 357 and my 32-20 and it was good. Lyman cast bullet handbook lists 13.5 gr of 2400 behind a 158 bullet as it's most accurate load with a velocity of 1704 fps out of a 20" rifle, that should go close to 1800 fps out of a 24" barrel.
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4t5
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Re: 357 coated hard cast loads

Post by 4t5 »

Smallest powder load...Titegroup may get you there.
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Tycer
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Re: 357 coated hard cast loads

Post by Tycer »

I’ll jump in here with a comment on Lil’Gun: it has performed best for me at about a 90% case full behind the bullet. Velocities seem to fall off as the case gets full and more so compressed. Add to that the sound you hear with compressed - it’s downright eerie. Never heard anything like it. 357, 38, 360 Dan Wesson out of rifles 24”, 20” and 16”. Like 2400 it likes a heavy bullet and a solid crimp.
Kind regards,
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mickbr
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Re: 357 coated hard cast loads

Post by mickbr »

earlmck wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:01 am But if you wanted a heckuva load real economical, Power Pistol gets almost to 1700 fps with a max loading of less than 9 grains. Those "usual suspects" do make their velocity at less than SAAMI max pressure; the others need the full SAAMI max of 34k psi. But this is a pressure the Rossi handles with ease.
A lot of great replies above folks, thanks. Earlmck thanks that is worth a look and what I was aiming for , something to get real close and the most economical. I can build 700 loads out of a pound of powder from this load. I'll give it a try and see if my gun likes it.
mickbr
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Re: 357 coated hard cast loads

Post by mickbr »

btw anyone know what these will do on game? 16bhn is reasonably hard but 1700 is pretty fast- will they maintain calibre, expand or break up?
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