Need Help With Loading 38 55

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lever1886
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Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by lever1886 »

Rifle is a 1979 Winchester Commemorative in 38 55 and need some loading advice please.
Will be using Starline brass.
Meister has a 38-55 245GR. RNFP bullet available in .377 or .380.
Would the .377 be suitable for the Winchester Commemorative bore ?

What powder would you suggest and what velocity works best with the cast bullet in the 38-55 ? Any loads that has worked well for you ?

Is there a better choice than the Meister cast bullet ?
What about a jacketed bullet ? is the Sierra 2900 Pro-Hunter 375 Caliber .375 200 GR Flat Nose bullet a good choice ?

Are LEE reloading dies acceptable in 38-55 or would RCBS be better ?

Appreciate any help you could offer.

Thank You
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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by lever1886 »

A little more online research and found that someone had posted:

" I presume you will be loading for your Crazy Horse Winchester 94 so I can give you one tip up front, look for bullets of at least .379" and .380-.381" are probably better. My similar Winchester Legendary Frontiersmen has a groove diameter of .3795".

Looks like the Meister .380 may be the best choice to try.
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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by Sixgun »

For cast, go with the .379. Before you go off and buy a mess of them, get one bullet somewhere and load it..as a dummy...My guess is your chamber will not accept a loaded cartridge with a .379-.380 bullet. If that's the case, you have two options, have the chamber opened up or go with jacketed bullets. Just pick a load out of the manual that meets your velocity needs. Any fast to medium powder will work fine with jacketed. I'm afraid to think of what jacketed bullets would cost.---6
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lever1886
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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by lever1886 »

6, thanks for the reply.

Is the best option for jacketed the Sierra .375 200 grain flat point ? Sierra part # 2900 ?

Will see I I can get a sample cast bullet coming my way to try. Who else has a cast bullet for the 38 55 ?
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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by Lefty Dude »

5744 powder was my go-to for the 38-55, also SR4759 no longer made in lead bullet loading. For jacketed use, I used Reloader 7.
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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by otteray »

Sixgun wrote: Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:07 pm For cast, go with the .379. Before you go off and buy a mess of them, get one bullet somewhere and load it..as a dummy...My guess is your chamber will not accept a loaded cartridge with a .379-.380 bullet. If that's the case, you have two options, have the chamber opened up or go with jacketed bullets. Just pick a load out of the manual that meets your velocity needs. Any fast to medium powder will work fine with jacketed. I'm afraid to think of what jacketed bullets would cost.---6
Another option is inside neck reaming the cases.
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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by Bronco »

Just IMHO, slug the barrel and know exactly what size cast you need ! LBT makes, as others do, just the diameter size you will need. I know two people who have has Sierra bullet fail, immediately upon impact. Go with a bonded jacketed bullet if you go jacketed. I am a big fan of a good cast bullet myself in those old cartridges.

Again just my $0.02

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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by Sixgun »

Everyone else above gave excellent advice.....I purposely left out option number 3 as it is taken by some to be in poor reloading practices, but I've been doing it for over 40 years with probably a dozen 38-55 rifles over the years accounting for ???? thousands and thousands of rounds. I feel so safe in this, I regularly shoot this "style" out of Winchesters & Marlins that are worth serious money.

My solution to using the needed diameter bullet in a rifle that will not accept that needed bullets? Use 30-30 cases or cut down your 38-55 to expanded 30-30 length. Seat the bullet out to correct overall length.

Your not gonna hurt your chamber...no different than using 38 Spl in a 357 or .22 short in a L.R. chamber. 38-55 pressures are low and won't eat the walls of the chamber.

The reason this works is because the tightest part of the chamber is the first 1/8"-1/4" of the chamber mouth...usually just th first 1/8". By eliminating the mouth of the case by that much you are freeing up space for the fatter bullet.

This 1893 Marlin, takedown, in 38-55 was like new when I got it but the colors had faded. The previous owner/owners must have had it where the sun shines on it. I took the receiver and other needed parts and shipped them to Turnbull for recase. This rile has a .379 groove diameter and will only accept a.377 bullet but with the aforementioned procedure, it shoots! I regularly use it in competition and has since digested 2200 rounds since the recase.---6

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Marvin S
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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by Marvin S »

That rifle should swallow.380 dia bullets, my legendary frontiersmen did easily. And would shoot your eye out at 100 yards with 10gr unique.
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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by Marvin S »

That rifle should swallow.380 dia bullets, my legendary frontiersmen did easily. And would shoot your eye out at 100 yards with 10gr unique. And don’t buy into the hard bullet BS. Nothing wrong with the LEE dies except the expander plug will not be big enough for the lead bullet. RCBS cowboy dies are nice and have a larger expander but it is still to small. The LEE set is so easy to make custom expanders for if you have a lathe, which I do. I think custom expander plugs are available for LEE dies from maybe Buffalo arms or such.

Another thing you’ll find is there are two different case lengths, the original lengths @ 2 and 1/8 in long and a shorter one. I used the shorter one in my legendary frontiersman and long ones in my original 94 and Uberti Hi-Wall.
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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by wm »

If it were me I'd slug the barrel and measure it using a soft lead round ball, a dowel rod & mallet. Only takes a minute and then you know for sure.


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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by Trailboss »

Sixgun wrote: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:03 pm Everyone else above gave excellent advice.....I purposely left out option number 3 as it is taken by some to be in poor reloading practices, but I've been doing it for over 40 years with probably a dozen 38-55 rifles over the years accounting for ???? thousands and thousands of rounds. I feel so safe in this, I regularly shoot this "style" out of Winchesters & Marlins that are worth serious money.

My solution to using the needed diameter bullet in a rifle that will not accept that needed bullets? Use 30-30 cases or cut down your 38-55 to expanded 30-30 length. Seat the bullet out to correct overall length.
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Six, I never knew this was a poor reloading practice and so I started doing the same around 20 years ago. The 30-30 cases are so cheap that I just leave em on the ground when I'm hunting. I only have 1 rifle in 38-55, a 1994 rifle made in 1899 and it shoots well using your methods. I doubt I've fired more than a thousand rounds out of it, but it seems no worse for the practice.

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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by Sixgun »

Trailboss wrote: Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:49 pm Six, I never knew this was a poor reloading practice and so I started doing the same around 20 years ago. The 30-30 cases are so cheap that I just leave em on the ground when I'm hunting. I only have 1 rifle in 38-55, a 1994 rifle made in 1899 and it shoots well using your methods. I doubt I've fired more than a thousand rounds out of it, but it seems no worse for the practice.
Trailboss,
It's not and I commend you for speaking out. :D Here's the problem. I have suggested this before several times and I got comments such as "you can't do that, it will create pitting in the chamber just ahead of the case mouth" or "why bother when you can get the proper length brass." or. "Leading will form at the edge of the chamber mouth." I tried to explain that experience talks...and lengthy experience at that....but you know, everyone wants people to think they are an expert and most times they get that way from reading Handloader, Rifle, or Precision Shooting and most of them have only seen pictures of 38-55's on the internet. ----- :D

Another thing people always say, "you have to use a cast bullet one thousandths over groove diameter." B.S...you have to experiment and I have several rifles that like em bigger than that. For example, a model 71 .348.....I size them .351...this rifle will hit beer cans at 2-300 meters. If your case will take a larger bullet without looking really bulged and out of round and you have the proper expander then go use that bullet that's 2 or 3 thou. over....it helps to center the loaded round in the chamber and as long as your not shooting full pressure loads, your good-to-go.....but.....that's not what they say in Handloader Magazine----- :D ----6
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lever1886
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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by lever1886 »

Thank you to everyone for their help and replies. Some excellent info to digest.

Looks like Starline has a regular length brass and long brass available for the 38 55.
Here is the short brass info:

38-55 Brass (2.080") (Large Rifle primer)
38-55 Win, 38-55 Winchester, 38-55 Ballard
2.076 - 2.082 O.A.L.

The .38-55 is the standard length of 2.080" which is the same as Winchester case. Case mouth has thinner walls (.0072" average thickness at mouth) than the Winchester case allowing for use of the wide variety of bullet diameters, especially in tight chamber/large bore situations. Head stamp reads *-* .38-55.

Also going to look at using the 30/30 brass that sixgun describes.
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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by Old Savage »

You would do well to try whatever Six says. My good friend who used to write for Handloader would agree with him.
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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by marlinman93 »

I wouldn't buy bullets, or begin loading without first slugging the bore to know for sure what the groove diameter is. You might get lucky guessing, or you might end up wasting time and money and having a less than satisfactory result.
A soft lead muzzleloader ball tapped into the muzzle, and then tapped out will give you something to measure. Be sure to use micrometer, and not dial calipers, as calipers aren't accurate enough. Once you've determined the groove you can go slightly over with a cast bullet. I stay within .001" of groove myself. Jacketed can be groove diameter to .001" over, as they're more forgiving of a looser fit.
The bullet weight for that gun is usually around 245-255 gr., as the twist isn't tight enough to go too heavy, and being a repeater you want to maintain proper OAL to ensure it cycles perfectly.
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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by Marvin S »

You may want either Lyman or RCBS dies as Buffalo arms offers expander plugs in a size you would need. You may also consider fire forming you cases and never resize them again, not even neck sizing. This will prevent the case mouths from looking like a snake swallowing a bullfrog. Just make sure you have decent bullet tension to keep it in place. Please put your home state on the profile thing. All the info given is good and yea go ahead and slug the bore to start, pretty much all of era rifles have a .378-.379 bore. It may even be my old rifle.
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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by hfcable »

the best jacketed bullet that I have found is the Barnes Original which is nominally .377. it loads and shoots well in every 38/55 I have tried it in. works in my 1894 that was made in 1895. the .375 bullets keyhole in that rifle. the barnes original also performs well on game up to the size of a big caribou, and probably would do as well on moose

don't know how that bullet would do in an early marlin 38/55 as the bores on those tend to be even larger.
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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by Camel73 »

You can call Lee up and order whatever size expander you want..
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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by Marvin S »

Camel73 wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:38 pm You can call Lee up and order whatever size expander you want..
That would be good, just don’t get their universal expander set, it’s nothing more than a mouth belling set.
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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by Sixgun »

On expander dies...we all know that the Lyman M dies are made for the cast bullet shooter and are usually better than the expanders that come with a set of dies designed for jacketed bullets.

A guy, who is picky about his dies and wants the absolute very best..(not me, if it shoots great, I stop) :D will make his own for a specific caliber or like me, will fish around in the hundred or more dies I have laying around to get the best. For an instance, when shooting at our cast bullet matches, I'll use a 700 Remington in .308 but I'll use the expander from a 32-20 or 303 British die.

Sometimes at gunshows a dealer will have a cardboard box full of dies..all mixed up, different brands, rusty, whatever and I'll say, "how much for the whole box?" Him, wanting to unload the junk will say, for instance, "$75" and down the road I go.

Sometimes I'll chuck the expander die of.....once again, for example, a 41 mag in a drill press and spin it down to .407 for the 40-65 or 40-82 Winchester that normally come with a 404 expander. (Don't hold me to these exact measurements)

Expanding dies are more important to accurate cast bullet shooting than most people realize. Target and hunting ammo requires different expander sizes..usually. :D ----6
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lever1886
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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by lever1886 »

Just got my shipping notice from Lee that my custom expander for a .380 cast bullet has shipped.
Took less 2 weeks to ship. They were very helpful when I called them up to place the order.

Looking forward to giving this round a try.
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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by Camel73 »

Nice.
I found that since I keep different brands of factory brass to reload, that I get different case dimensions - specifically the thickness of the brass at the case mouth. Once I became familiar with the numbers I ordered a few different size expanders from Lee.
One of those expanders I got from Lee was in fact a 303 British. I forget which size it was for now...

After I found out Lee was so accommodating (and well priced), I got fancy and ordered a full length size die with the neck opened up to fit my cast 30-30 bullet.

The fam has your same 79. Don't know the bore diameter though I've been meaning to check it out. It hardly gets taken out because, well, I'm not sure why actually, ha. I tend to my own children..
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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by gundownunder »

If you haven't already read this article, it's very informative.
Read it before you open up your chamber as he strongly recommends against that option.
https://www.starlinebrass.com/articles/ ... -55-Cases/
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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by Nath »

Or you could go the obvious rout and load it how it was meant to be and crush 50grns of black powder in their via a soft lead suitably lubericated bullet that will fill the bore on firing just right!
Just sayin'.

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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by AJMD429 »

gundownunder wrote: Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:23 pm If you haven't already read this article, it's very informative.
Read it before you open up your chamber as he strongly recommends against that option.
https://www.starlinebrass.com/articles/ ... -55-Cases/
Fascinating article...!
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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by lever1886 »

OK, tried the .380 expander from lee and some .380 bullets from Meister.

Seated all the way up the the end of the crimp groove is .251 which is the AOL shown in the 50th Lyman book.

The Lee dies seem to work well but I do prefer the RCBS as you can lock down the ring on the RCBS die and your setting is saved on the seating and crimping die.

Loaded an empty round and it slid easily into the chamber of the Winchester rifle so it looks like I am good to go on the .380 bullets.

Going to try the 10 grains of Unique load unless some suggests a better load to try.

Thanks again for the help
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Last edited by lever1886 on Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by Marvin S »

The LEE O-ring nut is OK if you remove the die by grabbing the nut and not the die body. Be sure to snug the nut down to seat the O-ring once it is adjusted first . Or you can buy a bunch of split locking rings to replace the LEE ones.
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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by lever1886 »

Replaced the Lee ring with a Hornady ring and that worked perfectly.

I think the custom Lee Expander is .001 too small. It just barely works with the .380 bullets and would be better if the mouth was a hair larger. Going to contact Lee and see what size they sent for the .380 bullets.

Loaded up a batch with the 245 cast bullet and 10 grains of Unique and hope to give it a try tomorrow.

Looking forward to shooting the 38 55 Winchester.

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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by Shasta »

I would like to add a bit of advice based on my own experience. If you have not already done so, make sure your loaded round will feed properly from the rifle's magazine. I purchased the long Starline brass for my Winchester 94 Legacy .38-55 rifle, and loaded with a Bear Creek Supply cast lead bullet it dropped into the chamber with no problem. Unfortunately, the round would not make the transition from the lifter into the chamber when fed through the magazine because overall length was just a fraction too long. By trimming .005" from the case mouth, the round would then feed properly.

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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by lever1886 »

Spent a little time with the family at the range today and everyone got to shoot the Winchester 38-55.
10 grains of Unique is a very pleasant load and fun to shoot.

Was a little concerned about feeding because the AOL ended up being .252 but no issues feeding from the rifle's magazine.
It was very difficult getting the rounds through the loading gate into the magazine. The loading gate seems very tight and it was a pain to load.

The Winchester is a good shooting rifle, did not shoot any groups but it worked well off hand at 40 yards shooting plastic bottles.
Going to stick with the 10 grains of Unique load as it's pretty mild and everyone seems to enjoy shooting it.

If I can get the loading gate sorted out it will be a regular shooter as it's lots of fun.

Thanks again to everyone for their help.

Shasta, thanks for the tip on the brass length and will keep that in mind if I run into an issue.
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Re: Need Help With Loading 38 55

Post by Marvin S »

One thing you may or may not know is when loading through the gate only push the cartridge 3/4 of the way in unless it’s the last one. This keeps the fighting to a minimum.
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