Would Appreciate Some Help With Load Data For Varget in 45 90

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lever1886
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Would Appreciate Some Help With Load Data For Varget in 45 90

#1 Post by lever1886 » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:06 pm

Have an 1886 made in 1894 in 45 90. Looking for a conservative loads using Varget with a 300 grain cast bullet.
Plan to use a Meister Bullet 300 grain RNFP in .458 diameter, non gas check.

Looking at the Lyman 50th edition manual for 4570 Trapdoor loads the starting load for a 292 grain bullet with Varget is 53 grains and the starting load for a 320 bullet is 48 grains. They do not list a load with varget for the 45 90 and all their 45 90 loads are for newer rifles.

Would you start at 50 grains for the 45 90 with varget and a 300 grain bullet or ? Would like to duplicate the original factory load of approx 1500 fps.

I do plan to do most of the shooting with trail boss and the 300 grain bullets. From what I have read it looks like 13-14 grains of trail boss for the 300 grain bullet. Plan to let the kids enjoy shooting the rifle.

I have shot 45 70 rounds in the rifle with 405 cast bullets. I have tried 40 grains of Varget which was really mild, 42 grains, 45 grains and 46.5 grains which was the max trapdoor load in the Lyman manual.

Would prefer to use the longer 45 90 brass.

Would appreciate any help you could offer.

Thank you

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Re: Would Appreciate Some Help With Load Data For Varget in 45 90

#2 Post by crs » Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:05 pm

Lever,
I have loaded for the 45-90, but never used Varget. There may be others here that have used Varget and if so you may hear from them soon.

That said, most of my loading has been for heavy loads, but I have done one batch with Western 5744 which is touted to great to replace black powder in modern rifles. Also, 5744 worked well with lighter bullets in my .405 WCF.
My low pressure favorite is VV N133.

Here are some sources of 45-90 load data:
.45-90 load data links

http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/ai.cgi?sn=VPYBRweANa
https://loaddata.com/Search
http://www.loadswap.com/
https://www.shootersforum.com/single-sh ... -90-a.html

Use Google and search on ".45-90 express loads"

Some searches will take you to reloading forums with links to good information sources.
Buy the latest Lyman Manual.

Study the cartridge in articles and books:
1. Complete Guide to Reloading-Philip B Sharpe
2. Pet Loads – Ken Waters
3. Read from Elves to Elephants by Paco Kelly on Leverguns.com
Learn to correlate related load data such as .45-70, 450 Marlin, 45-10,20.

Have fun.
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Re: Would Appreciate Some Help With Load Data For Varget in 45 90

#3 Post by 2ndovc » Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:16 pm

I use Varget quite a bit, especially in the .45-70. I’m not near my reloading books, but a heavy load w/ a 405 gr bullet was around 48 gr. of Varget. I’d say start below 50 and work your way up. It’s been an incredibly accurate powder for me and I keep several pounds around.

jb 8)
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Re: Would Appreciate Some Help With Load Data For Varget in 45 90

#4 Post by Sixgun » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:15 pm

Maybe with jacketed but I consider the powder too slow for cast, especially light cast with starting loads. Varget is close to 4895 in burn rate and I got lots of hangfires from it in the 45-90, more when the temps are low. Your better off with a faster powder like RL7. 4198, or my favorite, 5744. ----6
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Re: Would Appreciate Some Help With Load Data For Varget in 45 90

#5 Post by M. M. Wright » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:55 pm

I too have an original '86 in 45-90 circa 1916. The bore is a little dark so it likes gas checks and jacketed bullets. I feed it mostly Goex ffg or Swiss 1 1/2 but the smokeless it likes, like 6's, is AA5744. This is the powder for old large capacity cases. Mine has the slow twist so I feed it 300 grain GC bullets. They'll kill a bison so I don't need anything heavier. My notes are over in the shop but if memory serves 38 grains gives the 300s 1700 fps from it's 26 inch barrel. Tht's real close to the ffg load. Check all loads with a trusted manual. Does what I remember seem OK 6? Maybe I should wait and check my notes.
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Re: Would Appreciate Some Help With Load Data For Varget in 45 90

#6 Post by Sixgun » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:10 am

MM...your on the money. My notes shows 40 gr. to give almost 1800 but that's a load for nickel steel barrels. In b.p. barrels, I like 30 gr.for 1400....plenty.------6
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Re: Would Appreciate Some Help With Load Data For Varget in 45 90

#7 Post by lever1886 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:09 pm

Thanks to everyone for their replies.
I have read so many posts my head is spinning but this is where I have ended up.

I have found lots of people who like Varget in the 45 70 but have not found a single post of anyone using Varget in the 45 90.

I have read lots of posts where people have said they have used published trap door 45 70 load data in the 45 90 with good results.

I don't have any AA5744 but plan to pick up some and try the 30 grains with a 300 grain cast bullet. 1400 fps would be OK

I did find my copy of Ken Waters Pet loads and am going to try IMR-3031.
Found quite a few postings where they used IMR-3031 in the 45 90.
IMR -3031 with 300 grain cast bullet. Start at 48 grains. Will try 48, 49 and 50 grains and see how that works.

Lyman/Ideal #40 manual 300gr cast bullet 3031/50gr/1600fps - Did not read this first myself but was posted by someone else.
Ken Waters Pet Loads shows a load for a 309 grain cast bullet starting with 48 grains of IMR 3031 for 1490 FPS and then a load of 51.5 grains IMR 3031 for 1650 in a 26 inch barrel. - I did read this myself.

For everyday plinking going to try the 13-14 grains of trail boss and then try the IMR-3031 and AA5744 for a hunting load

Appreciate all the help
Thank you

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Re: Would Appreciate Some Help With Load Data For Varget in 45 90

#8 Post by Sixgun » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:09 pm

Lever1886,
I've been shooting that cartridge ...45-90 regularly since 1974 along with the 45-70 and there is one thing I can guarantee you.......with warm weather and a HEAVY CAST bullet that is at least one thousandths over diameter, just about any powder will work. Use those same powders in below ...say 40 degrees...or worse yet, around 20 and hangfire will be your buddies will start calling you "Hangfire Lever 1886. :D

I've been there and done that and that's why for the last 25 years...with CAST BULLETS, I use nothing but a faster powder, nothing slower than 4198.RL7 or 5744. These powders will push any weight cast bullet as fast as the cartridge was designed for.

You want an easy...easy...easy...play load for the 45-90.....with any cast bullet weight, just drop in 13-15 gas. of Unique, loose in the case.
Hunting African animals with the 45-90 is a whole different story and we won't get into that.---6
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Re: Would Appreciate Some Help With Load Data For Varget in 45 90

#9 Post by lever1886 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:29 pm

Thanks, Sixgun.
It's now sinking in.

Use 5744 or Reloader 7. I am going to pick up some 5744 and give it a try.

I am a little scared of the the Unique load as I am concerned with detonation but it looks like quite a few people are using Unique for 45 70 and 45 90 with excellent results. I would assume that unique is not position sensitive.

So from your previous post 30 grains of AA5744 with a 300 grain cast in the 45 90.

What about a starting load for the 5744 and 350 grain cast ?

Thanks again for the help.

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Re: Would Appreciate Some Help With Load Data For Varget in 45 90

#10 Post by M. M. Wright » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:43 am

I didn't mention this in my previous reply but are you aware of the slow twist in your old 45-90? It is probably 1:32 which is intended for 300 to 350 grain bullets and may not adequately stabilize the 400 to 500 grain bullets of the 45-70 that has a twist rate of 1:18 or 1:20. This was Winchester's choice as evidently they saw the 45-90 as a longer range, higher velocity cartridge.
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Re: Would Appreciate Some Help With Load Data For Varget in 45 90

#11 Post by lever1886 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:07 pm

M.M
Appreciate the info.

I am going to give the 300 grain, 350 grain and 400 grain cast bullets a try and see what happens. Will load up a few of each and see how they shoot.
Thanks again

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Re: Would Appreciate Some Help With Load Data For Varget in 45 90

#12 Post by lever1886 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:40 pm

Spent a little time shooting at the range today.

Loaded up some 300 grain cast bullets in the 45 90 case with:
13 grains trail boss
14 grain trail boss
15 grain trail boss
30 grains 5744
31 grains 5744
32 grains 5744
33 grains 5744

13 grains trail boss was extremely mild, 14 grains trail boss felt the same. 15 grains of trail boss felt like it had a little more power but was still really mild and pleasant. 15 grains trail boss will be the plinking load for this rifle.

30 grains 5744 felt more powerful than the trail boss load but was still mild in the recoil dept. There was a slight power increase up to the 33 grains of 5744 which was still pleasant to shoot.

Did not have a chrony today so I have no idea about the velocity but expect the 15 grains of trail boss to be in the 1100 fps range and the 33 grains of 5744 to be in the 1300-1400 fps range. I do plan to chrono the loads soon and will report back.

Overall I am very pleased with the Trail Boss and Accurate 5744 loads. The trail boss load is very easy to shoot and perfect for kids.

Should be able to work up a good hunting load with the 5744 once I get the chrony going.

I am also going to give some 350 grain and 405 grain cast bullets a try.

The 126 year old Winchester 1886 rifle is a pleasure to shoot. It's so smooth and easy to load with an outstanding trigger.

Thanks again to everyone for their help.

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Re: Would Appreciate Some Help With Load Data For Varget in 45 90

#13 Post by crs » Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:32 pm

You are off to a good start.
Thanks for the report and have fun!
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