cast bullets -- plain base vs. gas check

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earlmck
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cast bullets -- plain base vs. gas check

Post by earlmck »

Larry Gibson who makes useful posts over on "castboolits.com" did an interesting pressure/velocity comparison of plain base vs gas check bullets of the same configuration. Of interest only to us old casty shooters, but that includes a bunch of us here.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthr ... ost4482456
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Re: cast bullets -- plain base vs. gas check

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Thanks for the link, Earl. Not surprised at the PB accuracy issues.
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Re: cast bullets -- plain base vs. gas check

Post by Shasta »

That is an excellent and very informative read. Thank you for posting the link.

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Re: cast bullets -- plain base vs. gas check

Post by piller »

Proof that lead bullets still give good accuracy. That 3/4 inch one ragged hole is proof of good accuracy to me. As far as gc vs plain base, it would appear that the appropriate velocity and a powder that your gun likes seems to make the difference minimal. I do understand that with higher velocities and hotter powders that differences show up. While lead bullets are old school, it is still true that they perform just fine within their limitations. To paraphrase a character played by Clint Eastwood, "a guns got to be used within it's limitations!"
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Re: cast bullets -- plain base vs. gas check

Post by Griff »

I better rethink my .30-30 loads...
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Re: cast bullets -- plain base vs. gas check

Post by M. M. Wright »

Thanks Earl. Interesting.
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Re: cast bullets -- plain base vs. gas check

Post by Old Savage »

This was shot by friend Ron Carmichael who used to write for Hand Loader magazine on cast bullets.. They are near full power cast bullet loads of I think at about 2500 fps.
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Re: cast bullets -- plain base vs. gas check

Post by Sixgun »

Griff wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:30 pm I better rethink my .30-30 loads...
Yea.....3/4" groups at 100....he knows what he is doing. I've shot with some of the best guys in the business at our cast bullet matches...in fact, they make me look so bad I'm embarrassed to show up at the upcoming matches....one this Sat...... Perfect 200 point scores ...I've never seen one....would require that kind of accuracy.......but....on the other hand our cast bullet matches are 20 shots at 100 and 20 at 200 per national rules with the CBA. A 3/4" group at 100 does not equate to a 1 and 1/2" group at 200 as wind variables ALWAYS disrupts better shooting at 200.

But the point of his testing was pressure ...pb vs gc..... interesting but not surprising.

What I do know is each style of bullet has its own purpose. You will not get better accuracy with a pb vs gc in a worn barrel or one with a not-so-perfect crown. The gc is so much more forgiving with sloppy loading techniques, imperfect bore condition, powder selection, or velocity. That's why I use them. :D ----6
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Re: cast bullets -- plain base vs. gas check

Post by Griff »

Sixgun wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:34 pm
Griff wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:30 pmI better rethink my .30-30 loads...
Yea.....3/4" groups at 100....he knows what he is doing. I've shot with some of the best guys in the business at our cast bullet matches...in fact, they make me look so bad I'm embarrassed to show up at the upcoming matches....one this Sat...... Perfect 200 point scores ...I've never seen one....would require that kind of accuracy.......but....on the other hand our cast bullet matches are 20 shots at 100 and 20 at 200 per national rules with the CBA. A 3/4" group at 100 does not equate to a 1 and 1/2" group at 200 as wind variables ALWAYS disrupts better shooting at 200.

But the point of his testing was pressure ...pb vs gc..... interesting but not surprising.

What I do know is each style of bullet has its own purpose. You will not get better accuracy with a pb vs gc in a worn barrel or one with a not-so-perfect crown. The gc is so much more forgiving with sloppy loading techniques, imperfect bore condition, powder selection, or velocity. That's why I use them. :D ----6
Actually... the accuracy of my load is outstanding... ¾" @ 200 yards...(on great days, average just @ an inch regularly, 1-½" when I'm havin' a senior moment{rare}... :twisted: But, when I look at the pressure he's generating... and my load is significantly higher than his... like almost 1-¼ as much powder, I wonder what pressure I'm generating?

But... after I stopped, drug out my Lyman 49th book, I'm a ½ grain below their max for RE7 & a 170 gr pill, (mine's a 150), While I know that my average FPS is 2160, I have to get home to check my ED & SD numbers, so... maybe I don't need to rethink it... Sometime next year, I'll get a load to SE PA and bring this rifle and 100 rounds of ammo... AND you can shoot it to see if you do as well.
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Re: cast bullets -- plain base vs. gas check

Post by 6pt-sika »

Sixgun wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:34 pm
Griff wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:30 pm I better rethink my .30-30 loads...
Yea.....3/4" groups at 100....he knows what he is doing. I've shot with some of the best guys in the business at our cast bullet matches...in fact, they make me look so bad I'm embarrassed to show up at the upcoming matches....one this Sat...... Perfect 200 point scores ...I've never seen one....would require that kind of accuracy.......but....on the other hand our cast bullet matches are 20 shots at 100 and 20 at 200 per national rules with the CBA. A 3/4" group at 100 does not equate to a 1 and 1/2" group at 200 as wind variables ALWAYS disrupts better shooting at 200.

But the point of his testing was pressure ...pb vs gc..... interesting but not surprising.

What I do know is each style of bullet has its own purpose. You will not get better accuracy with a pb vs gc in a worn barrel or one with a not-so-perfect crown. The gc is so much more forgiving with sloppy loading techniques, imperfect bore condition, powder selection, or velocity. That's why I use them. :D ----6
If you flip back thru old Fouling Shots you’ll find the PB guys with falling block guns generally shoot as well as the unlimited guys with bolt guns and gas checks .
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Re: cast bullets -- plain base vs. gas check

Post by 6pt-sika »

Just about all of my 44/444 loads are full octane so I prefer GC bullets . In my 1911 45 I’ve shot nothing but plain base .
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Re: cast bullets -- plain base vs. gas check

Post by Sixgun »

6pt-sika wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:58 am If you flip back thru old Fouling Shots you’ll find the PB guys with falling block guns generally shoot as well as the unlimited guys with bolt guns and gas checks .
Absolutely..........that's the gun most guys use....Stevens 44 1/2 actions........one guy from Md. who is always the winner uses a bolt gun in the short 308 casing. He has a two million dollar scope on it.

I lose because I'm just having fun with a 788 Remington .308 with factory barrel and trigger with a beat up old 1980's 3-9.
I can't seem to "get into" this game, thus the failure of me to invest heavily into the proper gun and scope and..........the patience to cast perfect bullets with perfect loading techniques. I'm a 4-6 banger cavity guy with a RCBS Pro-2000 Progressive.---6
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Re: cast bullets -- plain base vs. gas check

Post by 6pt-sika »

Sixgun wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:06 am
6pt-sika wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:58 am If you flip back thru old Fouling Shots you’ll find the PB guys with falling block guns generally shoot as well as the unlimited guys with bolt guns and gas checks .
Absolutely..........that's the gun most guys use....Stevens 44 1/2 actions........one guy from Md. who is always the winner uses a bolt gun in the short 308 casing. He has a two million dollar scope on it.

I lose because I'm just having fun with a 788 Remington .308 with factory barrel and trigger with a beat up old 1980's 3-9.
I can't seem to "get into" this game, thus the failure of me to invest heavily into the proper gun and scope and..........the patience to cast perfect bullets with perfect loading techniques. I'm a 4-6 banger cavity guy with a RCBS Pro-2000 Progressive.---6
Do you shoot in the Hunter Class ? I had thoughts of trying it with a 444 lever action but gave up on that idea .
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
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Re: cast bullets -- plain base vs. gas check

Post by Sixgun »

No.....I'm the only guy with a regular gun so that would leave me in a class by myself. We only have maybe a dozen guys who shoot on the fourth Sat. and I jump in the ring with them when I feel like going. These guys are hard core lead bullet shooters and I'm just out to have fun and fanny burp on the other one guys. Sometimes I'll wait to see if someone is really focusing on a shot, then I'll blast one to mess with their concentration. They all say the match would not be the same without me so I must be doing something right.

I wish I could figure out a way to get a scope on the BAR as that rifle is a very accurate gun with jacketed but you really need a scope :D ----6
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Re: cast bullets -- plain base vs. gas check

Post by 6pt-sika »

Sixgun wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:47 pm No.....I'm the only guy with a regular gun so that would leave me in a class by myself. We only have maybe a dozen guys who shoot on the fourth Sat. and I jump in the ring with them when I feel like going. These guys are hard core lead bullet shooters and I'm just out to have fun and fanny burp on the other one guys. Sometimes I'll wait to see if someone is really focusing on a shot, then I'll blast one to mess with their concentration. They all say the match would not be the same without me so I must be doing something right.

I wish I could figure out a way to get a scope on the BAR as that rifle is a very accurate gun with jacketed but you really need a scope :D ----6
When I was a member at the Factoryville Sportsman’s Club there was a gentleman there named Ed Longo and he shot one of the falling block deals but it wasn’t a Stevens/CPA I forget what it was but he used to win regularly at the Tamaqua club .
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
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