Maximum "oomph" for the .45 ACP

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Bill in Oregon
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Maximum "oomph" for the .45 ACP

Post by Bill in Oregon »

I'm sure the many 1911 fans here will have some thoughts on bullets, powders and loads that milk the maximum out of the .45 ACP in this grand old platform.
Looking for experience with loads you might use only occasionally, maybe with a buffer and an 18 or 20-pound spring.
I know, you can always just buy a 1911 in 10mm, or fit a .460 Rowland conversion. But I am curious about what the original is capable of, carefully loaded.
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Re: Maximum "oomph" for the .45 ACP

Post by 3leggedturtle »

I shoot a 255gr RNFP at 1075fps out of an 18” barrel. Haven’t chronoed them out of my P97 or 1911 Mil-Spec yet. But it’s still a full grain under max according to my Hodgdon manual for pistols.


Do you have wide open place by your town there to shoot and/or boon dock? Todd/3leg
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Re: Maximum "oomph" for the .45 ACP

Post by mikld »

I have never tried to "hot rod" my 45 ACP handloads. Bur for my SD preferences, I sometimes use a near max load of W231 under a cast Lyman 200 gr. SWC giving me about 950 fps outta my 1911 and Ruger P90 (right outta my Cast Bullet Handbook)...
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Re: Maximum "oomph" for the .45 ACP

Post by Blaine »

IMO, here the Holy Grail of hot .45acp....
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l ... list&c=161

When I get a roundtoit, I have a nice S&W 4" that I'll load up some 255 hardcast in .45 Auto Rim....A little Mountain Gun, sort of.
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Re: Maximum "oomph" for the .45 ACP

Post by piller »

Didn't Paco write about hot rodding the 1911 .45 ACP back when he was still active duty law enforcement? I don't recall the loads, but the agents and he would put in stronger springs and bump up the speed on the bullet. Not as many choices back then. As far as reloading the .45 ACP, it seems to work well for individualizing the loads because it was done millions of times in IPSC shooting.
According to Hodgdon, CFE Pistol gives over 930 fps from a 230 grain FMJ bullet. Everything else is in the 800 or slower range. Vita Vuori powder lists N350 and 3N38 as giving more than 970 fps at max load. Those 2 seem to be pushing it pretty hot.
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Re: Maximum "oomph" for the .45 ACP

Post by Malamute »

Ages ago I loaded 100 rds of the Lyman/Keith 452424 bullets with whatever amount of Unique made around 850 fps. They all ran fine in the box stock Colt Combat Commander I had, I just didnt use an auto as a woods gun so didnt do anything else with them after trying them.

Theres been a bit of work done with the 45 Super, which is a step up over the ACP but not as much as the Rowland. The stock H-K 45s seem to run the Super just fine right out of the box, not sure what a 1911 would want to be happy with it, but I dont think its much. The Super uses basically standard cases, but a bit stouter load. I think Starline makes Super headstamped cases.

I believe the modern expanding bullet technology with bonded bullets helps the 45 ACP, they go through auto bodies and windshield glass and still expand well and deeply. Id go with a premium grade load if using it as a woods gun and wanted good game performance in available loads. We dont have much info on bears yet, but the consensus seems to be the bonded bullets should work fairly well in skulls.
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Bill in Oregon
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Re: Maximum "oomph" for the .45 ACP

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Malamute, we had an incident in Oregon near Crater Lake a few years back of a guy wading into some thick stuff to finish off a wounded black bear with a 1911 and hardball. He decided he would never try that stunt again.
I had not heard of the .45 Super. guess I don't get out enough. Todd, yes, have a nice local range as well as numerous places on public land to get out and shoot.
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Re: Maximum "oomph" for the .45 ACP

Post by Sixgun »

I have used the same loads for the 45 ACP .....in 1911's.......(Model 25 and 1917 Smiths are another story).....the same way since 1975 just the way John Browning intended it to be...230 hardball or equivalent 230 cast...at a bit over 800 with the proper amount of Unique.

There's thousands of japs laying in mass graves on jungle islands that ....if they could :D .....would testify as to its lethality.

Bears have also been known (I've read this) to absorb chunks of lead from 340 Weatherbys...and the like....and still kill their pursuers.----6
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Re: Maximum "oomph" for the .45 ACP

Post by Pisgah »

Every reputable loading manualwill have loads that are right at SAAMI max pressure for the.45 ACP -- and in an unmodified 1911, that's all you should expect. And there's nothing wrong with that. For it's practical purposes, the .45 ACP is all it needs to be and then some.
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Re: Maximum "oomph" for the .45 ACP

Post by Ray »

Hey Billy ! Hope you are well.

The .45 acp don't need hopping-up. Just watch '70s and '80s rerun tv. The .45 snatches the soul right out of the victim and flips his cadaver through the air.

All joking aside, those blue nosed ppu 185 gr. jhps are all I carry for nasty critter protection. They are not so frangible as you might think and they drive straight and deep in test media.
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Re: Maximum "oomph" for the .45 ACP

Post by Malamute »

The animals Ive shot with any RN pistol bullets, 45 auto, 45 Colt, 44 spl, none read the stories and few were all that impressed with the 45 auto ball loads. Many jack rabbits got up and ran off after body hits. Flat points and SWC made a huge difference in terminal effect and animal reaction. Id not willingly use RN pistol bullets on any live targets if I had a choice of anything better. Autopsying animals shot with various bullets reinforced that impression.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt-

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Re: Maximum "oomph" for the .45 ACP

Post by marlinman93 »

I'm with Sixgun on the loads for .45 ACP. Never found any need to push mine beyond 900 fps, and usually stay closer to 750-800 fps. I have 4 springs for my S&W 745, so I can shoot anything from target loads to heavy loads and cycle perfectly.
I just came into a Remington-Rand 1911A1 Camp Perry match pistol, and it seems to still have the heavy recoil spring in it. I believe they had to leave them heavy to meet criteria for minimum velocity loads at Camp Perry?
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Re: Maximum "oomph" for the .45 ACP

Post by Grizz »

Malamute wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:07 am The animals Ive shot with any RN pistol bullets, 45 auto, 45 Colt, 44 spl, none read the stories and few were all that impressed with the 45 auto ball loads. Many jack rabbits got up and ran off after body hits. Flat points and SWC made a huge difference in terminal effect and animal reaction. Id not willingly use RN pistol bullets on any live targets if I had a choice of anything better. Autopsying animals shot with various bullets reinforced that impression.
This^ . I agree abt flat meplats. My "experiments" with 44s and hardcast bullets on many deer support this point exactly. The difference can be duplicated with water jug experiments.

My 380 flat meplat load penetrates to the exact location of my 9mm hollowpoint carry load in water jugs.

I know, we don't hunt water. I get it. :lol:

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Re: Maximum "oomph" for the .45 ACP

Post by piller »

Some 1911s do not feed well with anything other than fmj round nose. A Glock with an aftermarket fully supported barrel and a heavier spring would be a perfect choice for pushing the .45 ACP to over 900 fps. At least, in my opinion. I am not suggesting .45 Super or .460 Rowland levels. Just the published loads fron Vita Vuori for SAAMI spec .45 ACP.
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Re: Maximum "oomph" for the .45 ACP

Post by Grizz »

piller wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:34 am Some 1911s do not feed well with anything other than fmj round nose. A Glock with an aftermarket fully supported barrel and a heavier spring would be a perfect choice for pushing the .45 ACP to over 900 fps. At least, in my opinion. I am not suggesting .45 Super or .460 Rowland levels. Just the published loads fron Vita Vuori for SAAMI spec .45 ACP.
That's a good point. I have handloads that feed flawlessly in my XD, but choke in my 1911-A1 clone. The 1911 feeds hardball and TAP hollow points flawlessly.
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Re: Maximum "oomph" for the .45 ACP

Post by marlinman93 »

piller wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:34 am Some 1911s do not feed well with anything other than fmj round nose. A Glock with an aftermarket fully supported barrel and a heavier spring would be a perfect choice for pushing the .45 ACP to over 900 fps. At least, in my opinion. I am not suggesting .45 Super or .460 Rowland levels. Just the published loads fron Vita Vuori for SAAMI spec .45 ACP.
That's one thing I love about my S&W 745 IPSC. It feeds everything, and without a hitch in feeding or ejecting.
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Re: Maximum "oomph" for the .45 ACP

Post by COSteve »

Done
Last edited by COSteve on Sun May 30, 2021 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Maximum "oomph" for the .45 ACP

Post by piller »

That .45 Super load sounds quite powerful enough for almost anything. 200 grains at 1,307 fps should do the job, but it probably lets you know when it goes off. If you want to punish yourself, there are revolvers in more powerful rounds which kick more.
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Re: Maximum "oomph" for the .45 ACP

Post by marlinman93 »

I love shooting my 745 with 185-200 gr. SWC cast lead bullets. A great little fun plinker with one of my lighter recoil springs, and loads loaded down to around 600 fps.
Eventually I'll try the same loads in my Camp Perry Remington 1911A1 if I can get the right recoil spring for it too!

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Re: Maximum "oomph" for the .45 ACP

Post by buckeyeshooter »

I use the standard 230 grain bullet... lead rn, jacketed rn or xtp at 850fps. If I need more gun, I have a 3 inch SW 44 mag.
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Re: Maximum "oomph" for the .45 ACP

Post by Grizz »

OR my 5" Redhawk with 405Gr TC hardcast from Beartooth exiting abt 960fps . . . just-in-case :lol:
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Re: Maximum "oomph" for the .45 ACP

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Steve, belated thanks for your reply. Grizz, you're shooting 405s in .45 ACP??? :o
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Re: Maximum "oomph" for the .45 ACP

Post by 3leggedturtle »

Bill, Grizzs Redhawk is a 44mag shooting 405’s at 900fps or so. Todd
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Re: Maximum "oomph" for the .45 ACP

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Todd, figgered I musta missed somethin' in there somewheres ...

:lol:
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Re: Maximum "oomph" for the .45 ACP

Post by piller »

3leggedturtle wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:46 pm Bill, Grizzs Redhawk is a 44mag shooting 405’s at 900fps or so. Todd
That ought to go through 5 or 6 feet of flesh and bone.
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Re: Maximum "oomph" for the .45 ACP

Post by Blaine »

piller wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:18 pm
3leggedturtle wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:46 pm Bill, Grizzs Redhawk is a 44mag shooting 405’s at 900fps or so. Todd
That ought to go through 5 or 6 feet of flesh and bone.
They are not painful to shoot, either.
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Re: Maximum "oomph" for the .45 ACP

Post by Grizz »

sorry I dropped the "ball" on this thread,,, stuff happenimg..

yes, I shoot 44 mag when 45 ACP might seem marginal. my comment exposes my thought that a bear stopper performance is where "getting the most out of 45 ACP" winds up.. not meant as a put-down of the 45, I love them. I generally have mine on me in the woods around here.

Here is a TKO calculator: http://www.reloadammo.com/tkofactor2.htm

this is useful for comparing 45 ACP loads among themselves to determine which loads have greater potential at the business end of the shot.

varying weight and velocity was eye opening for me... hopefully visiting TKO with 45 load data will help sort the question concerning "oooomph".

regards regardless,
grizz
TKO.PNG
and in an uncustomary attempt to be "fair", here is Chuck Hawks put down of TKO
I don't think it would take most big game hunters long to spot serious discrepancies in this brief list. Taylor's formula results in the .38-55 and 35 Remington being rated above the much more powerful .30-06. Note also that the .30-30 Winchester is based on a necked-down .38-55 case and historically both cartridges were used to hunt the same animals; the .30-30 proved so superior to the .38-55 that the parent cartridge quickly became obsolescent. Clearly, there are serious problems with the TKOF formula.

This is a perfect example of what happens when a stopping power formula is devised to affirm one's personal prejudices. Taylor claimed that his KO Factor closely matched his personal experience and I believe him. The problem is that Taylor was a fan of big bore elephant cartridges shooting solid (non-expanding) bullets. Unfortunately, in many cases TKOF bears no resemblance to reality when applied to more common Class 2 (deer size game) and Class 3 (elk size game) hunting cartridges shooting expanding bullets. The Taylor Knock-Out Factor is antiquated, inaccurate and should not be used as a reference in stopping power discussions, although some writers still persist in doing so.
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