Flu shot?

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Bill in Oregon
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Flu shot?

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Got mine yesterday after listening to all sorts of people hacking in public places. Turns out we have confirmed cases of influenza right here in our county already. Pharmacist said it was very early this year. By dint of my great age -- 65 -- I got the Fluzone High Dose this year for the first time. Bon chance everyone. Ninety percent of flu deaths are in those 65 and older, according to the CDC. Having watched my father die of H1N1 complications, I believe it.
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Re: Flu shot?

Post by GunnyMack »

Probably the best thing you did all day!
I'm going on 49 but I've been getting a flu shot past couple years even though I go to great lengths to avoid those folks that aren't smart enough to stay home when they sick.
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Re: Flu shot?

Post by Bill in Oregon »

You're a wise young man, Gunny!
For the flu-shot unbelievers out there, there's another method to "pertek" yourself that might work. Swing a dead cat counterclockwise three times and drink a cup of stumpwater under a new moon. Good for warts, too, according to Mark Twain.

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Re: Flu shot?

Post by 2ndovc »

I've been getting them for the last few years, think I was 48 when I got my first one. I wasn't into it but my Doc. told me with my history it was a really good idea. Haven't gotten anything other than a cold since.

jb 8)
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Re: Flu shot?

Post by fordwannabe »

I am the guy who collects and tracks the flu outbreaks in 53 nursing homes in central Pa, for our office. I was not a big believer in flu shots but had to get it as part of my job(we go into a whole lot of those homes on abuse complaints). I have not had the flu since. I already have two reports of influenza in nursing homes and it ain’t even October yet. Glad I am pretty much off for three months.
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Re: Flu shot?

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Ford, God bless you for the work you do.
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Re: Flu shot?

Post by Lefty Dude »

Got mine 2 Weeks ago, the high dose also. I turned 80 this year, being around my great Granddaughters who are in Elem. School I take no chances.
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Re: Flu shot?

Post by GunnyMack »

The only thing worse than school kid germs are airplane germs!
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Re: Flu shot?

Post by fordwannabe »

Thanks Bill. He does everyday.
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Re: Flu shot?

Post by jeepnik »

Happened to be taking my wife for a DR. apt and was waylaid by a roving nurse with a cart of flu vaccinations. This was almost a month ago.

I know some folks shy away from the vaccine, but except for one time I've never seen it cause any major issues. That one time was in the mid 70's with the Swine flue vaccine. The USAF made it mandatory. Sadly, they were still using a live virus vaccine.

Yep, gave it to everyone, including all of the pilots & crew for the alert F-4's. A few days later we couldn't have launched a single bird even if WWIII broke out. They had to get some reservists (I think they were in F102's or F106's) to come down and cover until folks recovered.

And it's a darned good thing no emergencies occurred, because there were no firemen, EOD, skycops or even barrier maintenance folks that were worth a darnd either. The hospital had sick folks taking care of sicker folks.
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Re: Flu shot?

Post by AJMD429 »

Also remember that if you do get the flu or high-risk people are exposed to it, Tamiflu is what got FDA approval and it still recommended fairly often, but 10 years or so ago it was revealed that much of the data was charitably speaking, 'inaccurate', when it got approved.

A properly made elixir of elderberry (and no that does not include elderberry wine), actually has rather impressive and specific antiviral activity for the influenza virus.
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Re: Flu shot?

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Doc, thanks for that tip. There has been a nice elderberry crop here in the mountains of southern New Mexico this fall. I think I'd better go pick some. A friend recommends making a tincture.
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Re: Flu shot?

Post by GunnyMack »

Elderberry aka SAMBUCOL is available in health food stores and I SWEAR BY IT. I tend to get bronchitis each year and I take this when I start feeling symptomatic, normally I can avoid a trip to Dr and no antibiotics.
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Re: Flu shot?

Post by Old No7 »

My bride is a Medical Assistant and will give 200+ flu shots on a good day -- she loves doing it, and has a gentle touch too -- and we usually get ours towards late October. But this year, she too said "it was early" and we'll get ours by the end of this month, a full month early.

"Knock on wood" we haven't caught it since we started taking the shots at age 48 or so, but I recall getting a really bad case of it back hen I was 30 or so, and it really whooped my a** for 4-5 days -- so I can see how it could KILL someone who wasn't strong or in their prime.

Good luck "getting shot" guys, but that one could save your life. :wink:

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Re: Flu shot?

Post by Pisgah »

Just don't deceive yourself in to thinking you're fully protected if you get the shot. The flu vaccine is based on the best guess as to which strain is going to predominate in the coming season. Sometimes, it's close to right on, other times -- like last year -- it's way off. They say it still provides some level of protection, but it is still wise to follow all standard avoidance precautions like avoiding crowds when possible and obsessive handwashing.
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Re: Flu shot?

Post by Marvin S »

I retired from the military this May. We were forced to get them and I told myself never again. Was in Walgreens a couple weeks ago and the gal said free flu shot with your VA card. Since it was MY choice I got one.
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Re: Flu shot?

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Pisgah, you are of course correct. Odds vary by season, with preventive effectiveness bouncing from "not much" to very significant. At this point it is the best prevention we have available to us, flawed though it might be.
Often overlooked when doing the flu-shot calculus in our heads is the very real but invisible benefit of being a person who not only escapes the flu but DOES NOT BECOME A VECTOR for transmitting the influenza virus to a very young or very old person. If you have been getting your flu shots and not getting the flu, you might count yourself lucky. But there is no telling how protecting yourself may have prevented you from spreading the flu to the newborn next door, or that sweet, frail elderly couple at church. You may very possibly have unknowingly saved a number of lives for each flu shot you have gotten.
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Re: Flu shot?

Post by Pete44ru »

.

My Primary Care MD told me that the flu season around Southern New England starts around Christmas, but if/when it sets in early, to get a flu shot in Sept/Oct, and a 2nd one in early Feb.

Out of the last 10 years, I've only had to get a 2nd shot one year.

Additionally, I get a Pneumonia shot about every 5 years.


.
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Re: Flu shot?

Post by fordwannabe »

Also remember if you have been exposed and are in the incubation period, even if you “get the shot” you will probably get sick. I have heard a thousand times that I got the shot and got the flu three days later from it. Uhh no.
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Re: Flu shot?

Post by 6pt-sika »

I got flu shots back when my mother was getting chemo treatments just because she asked me to because of her immune system . After she passed that stuff ceased and desisted .
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Re: Flu shot?

Post by KWK »

I get shots every year. They are not perfect, of course, since the strains picked aren't always the ones that end up circulating the most. Two years ago I got the flu which developed into pneumonia. Lucky virus.
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Re: Flu shot?

Post by piller »

Pete44ru wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:26 pm .

My Primary Care MD told me that the flu season around Southern New England starts around Christmas, but if/when it sets in early, to get a flu shot in Sept/Oct, and a 2nd one in early Feb.

Out of the last 10 years, I've only had to get a 2nd shot one year.

Additionally, I get a Pneumonia shot about every 5 years.


.
Pete, there are 2 types of pneumonia shots. Pneumovax 23 which is ONLY supposed to be given to a person twice in a lifetime, and Prevnar 13 which can be used as a booster annually. If you have had more than 2 doses of Pneumovax 23, you wasted your time and money an the 3rd and subsequent dose. At your age and no lung issues, get the Prevnar 13 every 2 years. With lung issues it is every year.

I get my flu shot each year. I give anywhere from 2 to 100 flu shots daily in addition to 300 to 600 prescriptions filled per day.
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Re: Flu shot?

Post by marlinman93 »

Wouldn't call myself an "unbeliever", but I have never gotten flu shots, and don't plan on getting them. My wife gets hers every year and she's had the flu more than I have. I prefer to steer clear of those who are sick, and wash my hands often when I've gone out to public areas.
Yes, I've had the flu, but in all my years of working I can only recall having anything bad enough to keep me home from work on maybe a few occasions. I'm not into letting people shoot my arm full of flu germs, and so far it's working for me to avoid them.
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Re: Flu shot?

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It isn't actually the flu virus in the vaccine.
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Re: Flu shot?

Post by octagon »

When i get the flu, I like to drown the little nasties. In good bourbon. :P
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Re: Flu shot?

Post by Ysabel Kid »

I have gotten one every year for the past decade or so, and will get one here soon. Having no spleen, I'm in a higher risk group. No choice for me! :shock:
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Re: Flu shot?

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As far as " My wife gets hers every year and she's had the flu more than I have " just realize that several things can happen:

1. the flu shot doesn't always work, so some years the strains going around aren't stopped by it,
2. the flu shot only works for a few month time-window (too late and you still get the flu, and it wears off in 90 days)
3. many other 'flu-like-illnesses' are going around at the same time as the 'flu', and it won't stop them, so

Since all this happens during 'flu season', any given person might easily get ill right after the shot, from either a non-influenza illness, or if their exposure was too soon after (or even before) the vaccine.

Having said all that, I'm not a real 'pusher' of flu shots (the main motivation aside from any altruism on the part of the medical community is the fact that they are an easy money-maker).

I do recommend:

September - rarely vaccinate anyone, as the immunity would wear off DURING the late part of 'flu season' (exception very high-risk patients). MANY places want to grab the dough so want to be first to offer the shot and try to get patients vaccinated too soon.

First two weeks of October - old and frail people. They may die with the flu, and the risk/benefit ratio for them is lowest. Plus, some years all the hypochondriac yuppies used up all the shots before the vulnerable patients got them.

Second two weeks of October - old and healthy, or young and frail people. They are lesser risk, but might benefit from the shot. This gives a couple weeks to 'experiment' on the old/frail people, which sounds mean, but we know that four decades ago the flu shot caused lots of illness and some deaths. Again, the risk/benefit ratio should be the guide.

First two weeks of November - young and healthy people. If the shot hasn't caused problems, these people may as well get vaccinated before the First Winter Germ Exchange (aka 'Thanksgiving get-togethers'). They are mostly going to be inconvenienced by the flu, versus endangered, but should get vaccinated if they want at this time.

Those are just my recommendations.

Another issue - multi-dose vaccines (of any type) have preservatives in the vial, and some of those may cause issues that would be more pronounced if the patient has a MTHFR SNP (or 'mutation') - which about a third of the population has.
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Re: Flu shot?

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This year, my employer has the preservative free version as the only option. What most people don't realize is that the outer coat, or shell, is broken up and the nucleic acid is removed chemically. The outer shell pieces are then suspended in a liquid and have a bubble of Nitrogen put in the syringe to act as a preservative by stopping bacterial growth with a lack of oxygen. The projections on the outer coat are what your white cells learn to recognize as something to be killed. As far as avoiding the flu, do NOT get close to anyone who is coughing. Flu is primarily spread by droplets in the air which come in contact with mucus membranes in the eyes, nose, and mouth. Your lungs are a primary target for the infection. Most deaths occur from a lack of oxygen. While it would be tough to prosecute, the laws against deliberately infecting others with a communicable disease which could cause death are potentially available to prosecutors if you cough on someone and they become infected with the flu. I have never heard of anyone prosecuted for spreading the flu.
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Re: Flu shot?

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Never had a flu shot, rarely if ever have had the flu.
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Re: Flu shot?

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I consider it a waste of time, money and energy to get a flu shot. I get one every year and never got the flu so why waste the money.?----6




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Re: Flu shot?

Post by fordwannabe »

Perxactly
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Re: Flu shot?

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Oscillococcineum and Sambucol together seems to have worked as well as Tamiflu for most people. I reccommend getting some of those 2 O.T.C. items to have on hand for 1 or 2 people. Last year you couldn't get it by the time flu season hit. Tamiflu goes into short supply each and every year.
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Re: Flu shot?

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piller wrote: Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:19 pm It isn't actually the flu virus in the vaccine.
Not true. According to my doctor, and the AMA, flu vaccines include "deactivated flu virus".
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Re: Flu shot?

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According to Seqirus, Merck, and Pasteur, there is no nucleic acid in their vaccines. The nucleic acid is not what the white cells recognize. It is the outer shell. Your Doctor is incorrect in this matter.
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Re: Flu shot?

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piller wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:04 am According to Seqirus, Merck, and Pasteur, there is no nucleic acid in their vaccines. The nucleic acid is not what the white cells recognize. It is the outer shell. Your Doctor is incorrect in this matter.
I suppose the CDC is also wrong then? Their web site says flu vaccines are made from deactivated flu virus also? Seems everyone is wrong about this?
According to the CDC's site flu viruses are made from either deactivated flu virus, or proteins from flu virus. But hey, what does the CDC know?
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Re: Flu shot?

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No flu shots for me. I have never had the flu... colds rarely, maybe once a year. I avoid restaurant utensils and religiously demand a straw. Wash my hands before and after I eat, and after visiting the restroom; as well as wash the rest of me regularly. Have discussed flu shots with my doc and both of us have come to the conclusion that they're not a good idea... for me. Y'all that feel they're necessary, keep it up, I have stock in pharmaceuticals.
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Re: Flu shot?

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marlinman93 wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:10 pm
piller wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:04 am According to Seqirus, Merck, and Pasteur, there is no nucleic acid in their vaccines. The nucleic acid is not what the white cells recognize. It is the outer shell. Your Doctor is incorrect in this matter.
I suppose the CDC is also wrong then? Their web site says flu vaccines are made from deactivated flu virus also? Seems everyone is wrong about this?
According to the CDC's site flu viruses are made from either deactivated flu virus, or proteins from flu virus. But hey, what does the CDC know?
Deactivated is PRECISELY what is meant by no nucleic acid in the vaccine. It is only the outer shell. That is why the flu vaccine cannot give you the flu.
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Re: Flu shot?

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GunnyMack wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:30 pm The only thing worse than school kid germs are airplane germs!
Prison or jail germs are worse.
I went to work for the state prison system after retiring. After 2 years I got sick of being sick all the time and found a new job. I've never used so much hand sanitizer in my life.

I went to my doctor once for an ailment and he asked if I had been around anyone who was sick. I reminded him I worked on a giant incubator. He wrote the scrip...

I try to get the flu shot every year. If I miss a couple of years it makes me sick for about 12 hours when I get the next one. Last year i got the shot and i still swear i got the flu twice. Stayed sick from November to January. I'm going in tomorrow to get this years shot.
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Re: Flu shot?

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Griff wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:29 pm No flu shots for me. I have never had the flu... colds rarely, maybe once a year. I avoid restaurant utensils and religiously demand a straw. Wash my hands before and after I eat, and after visiting the restroom; as well as wash the rest of me regularly. Have discussed flu shots with my doc and both of us have come to the conclusion that they're not a good idea... for me. Y'all that feel they're necessary, keep it up, I have stock in pharmaceuticals.
Well Griff, who could fault precautions. Personally I don't do anything different nor have my wife or kids now 36 to 40 years, no flu shots and rarely if ever sick.
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Re: Flu shot?

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piller wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:54 pm
marlinman93 wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:10 pm
piller wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:04 am According to Seqirus, Merck, and Pasteur, there is no nucleic acid in their vaccines. The nucleic acid is not what the white cells recognize. It is the outer shell. Your Doctor is incorrect in this matter.
I suppose the CDC is also wrong then? Their web site says flu vaccines are made from deactivated flu virus also? Seems everyone is wrong about this?
According to the CDC's site flu viruses are made from either deactivated flu virus, or proteins from flu virus. But hey, what does the CDC know?
Deactivated is PRECISELY what is meant by no nucleic acid in the vaccine. It is only the outer shell. That is why the flu vaccine cannot give you the flu.
Never said it would give me the flu. Just that it is made from the flu virus; deactivated or not.
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Re: Flu shot?

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Just as leather is deactivated cow.
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Re: Flu shot?

Post by marlinman93 »

piller wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:35 pm Just as leather is deactivated cow.
Does that make it pigskin, or vinyl?
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Re: Flu shot?

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marlinman93 wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:47 am
piller wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:35 pm Just as leather is deactivated cow.
Does that make it pigskin, or vinyl?
No, but it doesn't mean that it is the whole cow either.
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Re: Flu shot?

Post by M. M. Wright »

Stopped by the VA local clinic and got my high dose shot today. I have a couple of doctors who are also lodge brothers and they recommended I get the shot.
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gamekeeper
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Re: Flu shot?

Post by gamekeeper »

Got my over 65s flu shot today, can't afford to miss any hunting this winter... :wink:
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Re: Flu shot?

Post by rossim92 »

I'M 55, finally got my very first flu shot. Held off till now, I hate needles. Not as bad as I did when I was younger.
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Re: Flu shot?

Post by mickbr »

AJMD429 wrote: Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:04 pm
Having said all that, I'm not a real 'pusher' of flu shots (the main motivation aside from any altruism on the part of the medical community is the fact that they are an easy money-maker).
People should take more note of this. Like all these hyperactive kids on heavy drugs and adults all taking antidepressants. The pharm companies write the rules these days for doctors to follow along. 40 years ago it was the other way around.
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