The old Jeep needed a tummy tuck

Welcome to the Leverguns.Com Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here ... politely.

Moderators: AmBraCol, Hobie

Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.

Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Post Reply
User avatar
OldWin
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8962
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:38 pm

The old Jeep needed a tummy tuck

Post by OldWin »

Finally back rolling. Had the old crate apart getting a flat skid the Rubicon. Gained almost 4" of clearance on the belly. The stock skid pans hang way down. I was always hung up on it.
What a job! Looks like you'd just bolt it on. NO. The transmission and transfer case is shoved up almost 4 inches higher. Pinion angles have to be changed. Fan shroud moved, exhaust tweaks. Track bars relocated.
If you haven't figured it out yet, I'm an idiot! :D
"Oh bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
User avatar
Pitchy
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 13136
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:15 am
Location: Minnesooooota

Re: The old Jeep needed a tummy tuck

Post by Pitchy »

UFDA what a job pard but it sure looks nice finished, good work. 8)
Because I Can, and Have
-------------------------------------------------------------
USAF-72-76
God Bless America.
Disclaimer, not responsible for anyone copying or building anything i make.
Always consult an expert first.
User avatar
OldWin
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8962
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:38 pm

Re: The old Jeep needed a tummy tuck

Post by OldWin »

Thanks buddy. The garage rang with the sound of cursing most of the summer! :D
"Oh bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
User avatar
2ndovc
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 9302
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:59 am
Location: OH, South Shore of Lake Erie

Re: The old Jeep needed a tummy tuck

Post by 2ndovc »

Looks good though! I wouldn't have a clue how to do something like that. I keep looking at old CJs, someday I'll bag another one. :D


jb 8)
jasonB " Another Dirty Yankee"


" Tomorrow the sun will rise. Who knows what the tide could bring?"
User avatar
jeepnik
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6830
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:39 pm
Location: On the Beach

Re: The old Jeep needed a tummy tuck

Post by jeepnik »

I don't know about the Rubicons, but on the old CJ's the leaf springs were the lowest part. A few of us did spring over conversions. Kinda messed with the handling but did improve clearance. Then the pumpkin was the low spot so you needed skid plates on those. But with the spring over you could increase tire size which did give you more ground clearance.

Since the Rubicons have coil springs, does that make the pumpkins the low spot with the conversion? Do you have skid plates on those?
Jeepnik AKA "Old Eyes"
"Go low, go slow and preferably in the dark" The old Sarge (he was maybe 24.
"Freedom is never more that a generation from extinction" Ronald Reagan
"Every man should have at least one good rifle and know how to use it" Dad
User avatar
OldWin
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8962
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:38 pm

Re: The old Jeep needed a tummy tuck

Post by OldWin »

The pumpkins were and are the lowest point. Thats when I miss the flatties and early cj5s. Both pumpkins were on the passenger side. Now the rears are center and the front offset. Makes it a little tougher.
The coils are way more flexy than the leafs but theres a price for everything. Have to deal with track bars and control arms.
"Oh bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
Mainehunter
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1026
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:57 pm
Location: Central Maine

Re: The old Jeep needed a tummy tuck

Post by Mainehunter »

My 80 CJ5 is hanging low but I'm running 33" for tires so the clearance is pretty good. When I compare that to the 67 CJ6 it doesn't hang down as much so it seems. I do have the offset Dana 44 rear and Dana 27 front axles on the CJ6 but some day I'm planning on swapping the front axle because the axle tubes are bent.

Mainehunter
User avatar
jeepnik
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6830
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:39 pm
Location: On the Beach

Re: The old Jeep needed a tummy tuck

Post by jeepnik »

Neighbor has a CJ6 that hasn't run in several years. I'm trying to get him to sell it but so far no go. Says he plans on fixing in up, but his health never will allow it. I'll probably get it from his son someday. But for now it's his dream so let him dream.
Jeepnik AKA "Old Eyes"
"Go low, go slow and preferably in the dark" The old Sarge (he was maybe 24.
"Freedom is never more that a generation from extinction" Ronald Reagan
"Every man should have at least one good rifle and know how to use it" Dad
User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 31931
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: The old Jeep needed a tummy tuck

Post by AJMD429 »

I always liked the way the Hummers had their drive train tucked away, but I'm sure there is a heavy price in materials to make them that way, and probably more maintenance.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
User avatar
Sixgun
Posting leader...
Posts: 18563
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:17 pm
Location: S.E. Pa. Where The Finest Winchesters & Colts Reside

Re: The old Jeep needed a tummy tuck

Post by Sixgun »

Jay,
How about the front of the rear driveshaft where it connects to the transfer case? I've seen them come apart when the right angle is not right. I used a transfer case lowering kit for the old 89 YJ but it was not needed on the Rubicon when I lift d that

What exactly did you do? Do you have a suspension lift.---6
Model A Uzi’s
Image
User avatar
OldWin
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8962
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:38 pm

Re: The old Jeep needed a tummy tuck

Post by OldWin »

Sixgun wrote: Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:33 pm Jay,
How about the front of the rear driveshaft where it connects to the transfer case? I've seen them come apart when the right angle is not right. I used a transfer case lowering kit for the old 89 YJ but it was not needed on the Rubicon when I lift d that

What exactly did you do? Do you have a suspension lift.---6
The rear driveshaft has been changed to a double cardan setup like the front one is from the factory. When this is done, the rear pinion needs to be rotated to match the angle of the driveshaft. This is what causes most of the issues with a four link suspension. The angle is set by using adjustable control arms. Wheelbase has to be adjusted, track bar bracket angle needs to be corrected, shock mounts. Mucho issues. The front isn't quite as bad because the driveshaft is longer.
Yes, I have an Old Man Emu suspension lift. Adds between 2 and 3". I also have a JKS 1.25" body lift to give more room for uptravel and to make room for the transmission and transfer when the skid pushes it up. Even still, I had to dimple the tub in a couple places and re-route wires. I also have a JKS 1" motor mount lift to keep the engine height correct with everything. Track bars have been replaced with adjustable ones also.

This may all seem ridiculous, but it is the easiest way to gain that much clearance. Putting on a flat skid effects your driveline just like a suspension lift, so my combined is almost 6", but I only need to run 33" tires.
I would need to run 40" tires to gain that much clearance with my stock skid pan.

The reason you had to drop your transfer on the YJ is it has a slip yoke on the transfer output with a very short driveshaft and single u-joints. You can eliminate the drop by going to a slip yoke eliminator and double cardan driveshft.
The Rubicons came from the factory with a fixed yoke output, and as such can handle moderate lifts without issue with the driveshaft angle. Everything in the driveline is different on a Rubicon compared to a standard TJ.
"Oh bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
User avatar
Sixgun
Posting leader...
Posts: 18563
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:17 pm
Location: S.E. Pa. Where The Finest Winchesters & Colts Reside

Re: The old Jeep needed a tummy tuck

Post by Sixgun »

Thanks Jay...you forgot more than I'll ever know...on jeeps! Right...I did not need the lowering kit with the Rubicon as my son told me that issue was taking care of by the factory.

On all these angles and thingys you just about need an education in mechanical engineering with the hopeful assumption you can understand angles.....I failed geometry and algebra 11....just could not grasp it. That's why my jeeps have mild lifts...3" suspension and 1" body lift with 33's. I told the wife a bit ago I was going to lift her 4 door Jeep and she told me, "fine, when your done your going to need a new home address."

One of these days...we all say that.....I'm gonna get "Ole Yeller" out of the barn....still runs great......and drop a hemi in it...Dana 60's, 35's, coon town stereo system, and some fuzzy dice on the rear view mirror..maybe curb feelers too.....I'll just have to pay someone to do that kind of work, except the dice and the feelers.-----6
Model A Uzi’s
Image
User avatar
OldWin
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8962
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:38 pm

Re: The old Jeep needed a tummy tuck

Post by OldWin »

Haha well I tell ya bro, if I can do it, anybody can. Just used a magnetic angle finder.
I hear you on your wife's Jeep. Once upon a time, my wife had a sweet XJ Cherokee. I had this set of mudders in the garage taking up space and I got to thinking........
So, I ordered a lift for that sucker and had those mudders on in no time. It looked awesome, got all kinds of compliments from my buds, things were great.
Right up until we had to take a trip out of state for a funeral. My wife listened to those mudders howl for about 500 miles.
I've been under a "No lifts and mudders" gag order for about 10 years now on her vehicles. :D
"Oh bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
User avatar
jeepnik
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6830
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:39 pm
Location: On the Beach

Re: The old Jeep needed a tummy tuck

Post by jeepnik »

I plan to do a frame off restoration on my CJ8 starting in just a few months when I semi retire. I've decided to take it all the way back to stock. I even have the original rim and caps. I've even decided to remove the winch. I'll go with a receiver mount setup. Keeping the winch though. You can't get the quality of my old Warn anymore. Besides it's only 36 years old, just a spring chicken.

ONly question I'm debating is whether to mount the spare back on the roll bar. The bracket currently holds my Hi Lift and the spare is in the bed. The larger tires won't fit on the bar. With that spare on the bar it creates a huge blind spot.
Jeepnik AKA "Old Eyes"
"Go low, go slow and preferably in the dark" The old Sarge (he was maybe 24.
"Freedom is never more that a generation from extinction" Ronald Reagan
"Every man should have at least one good rifle and know how to use it" Dad
User avatar
OldWin
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8962
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:38 pm

Re: The old Jeep needed a tummy tuck

Post by OldWin »

Those Scramblers are really nice. Guy in town had one that was mostly stock. Just enough lift to clear a set of 34x9.50 Super Swampers and a winch. Good to go.
Is your Warn an 8274?
I've had my old Warn x8000i on my Rubicon for 15 years. It ain't for show. :D
"Oh bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
User avatar
jeepnik
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6830
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:39 pm
Location: On the Beach

Re: The old Jeep needed a tummy tuck

Post by jeepnik »

OldWin wrote: Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:09 pm Those Scramblers are really nice. Guy in town had one that was mostly stock. Just enough lift to clear a set of 34x9.50 Super Swampers and a winch. Good to go.
Is your Warn an 8274?
I've had my old Warn x8000i on my Rubicon for 15 years. It ain't for show. :D
Yep 8274. The only upgrade was the last time I respooled it I put on the newer synthetic rope. Sometimes I look at the new stuff and wonder if it really is as strong as the old wire rope. But it's held up so far.
Jeepnik AKA "Old Eyes"
"Go low, go slow and preferably in the dark" The old Sarge (he was maybe 24.
"Freedom is never more that a generation from extinction" Ronald Reagan
"Every man should have at least one good rifle and know how to use it" Dad
User avatar
OldWin
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8962
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:38 pm

Re: The old Jeep needed a tummy tuck

Post by OldWin »

Yeah, I keep going back and forth on rope. I want to in my quest to save weight, but I have a long history with cable.
"Oh bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
User avatar
OldWin
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8962
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:38 pm

Re: The old Jeep needed a tummy tuck

Post by OldWin »

Found this picture so you have a comparison. You can see how far down the factory skid hung down. Not only that, the irregular shape made it catch on obstacles instead of slide over.
Jeep owners nicknamed it "the shovel".
"Oh bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
m.wun
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 543
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: S.Cal

Re: The old Jeep needed a tummy tuck

Post by m.wun »

That seems like a lot of work but I like the fact you get more clearance without to much lift. Kind of like relocating the shock mounts.
What in the wild world of sports is going on here
User avatar
jeepnik
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6830
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:39 pm
Location: On the Beach

Re: The old Jeep needed a tummy tuck

Post by jeepnik »

OldWin wrote: Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:27 pm Yeah, I keep going back and forth on rope. I want to in my quest to save weight, but I have a long history with cable.
Tell you the truth, I'm probably going to put wire rope back on. It just looks right with a jeep of this era.
Jeepnik AKA "Old Eyes"
"Go low, go slow and preferably in the dark" The old Sarge (he was maybe 24.
"Freedom is never more that a generation from extinction" Ronald Reagan
"Every man should have at least one good rifle and know how to use it" Dad
User avatar
OldWin
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8962
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:38 pm

Re: The old Jeep needed a tummy tuck

Post by OldWin »

I hear you Jeepnik. I prefer the oldies at heart. The TJ is 2 generations old now but still seems modern to me.
I've contemplated selling it and buying a flattie and a trailer. Or maybe a CJ5.
But, I ordered this Rubicon new and have had it 15 years. It's set up the way I want, been put up winters, and is a great wheeler.
"Oh bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
User avatar
Sixgun
Posting leader...
Posts: 18563
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:17 pm
Location: S.E. Pa. Where The Finest Winchesters & Colts Reside

Re: The old Jeep needed a tummy tuck

Post by Sixgun »

OldWin wrote: Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:01 pm I hear you Jeepnik. I prefer the oldies at heart. The TJ is 2 generations old now but still seems modern to me.
I've contemplated selling it and buying a flattie and a trailer. Or maybe a CJ5.
But, I ordered this Rubicon new and have had it 15 years. It's set up the way I want, been put up winters, and is a great wheeler.

I agree and don't agree.....the jeeps before the TJ were junky rust buckets, wind howlers, rough riding, in bell housing slave cylinder, carburetor aggravating, work on it weekends to drive during the week vehicles. About the only good part in the pre TJ Jeeps was their unstoppable inline 6 cylinder engine. The TJ "modernized" the Jeep with sooooo much better suspension, heater, air conditioning, drive train and dependability.

The only thing the JK did was add comfort creatures with a doubling in price. I've had them all except the early CJ's but have been in them from other owners. I've always liked the CJ8 but every one I've ever seen has more rust than metal.

Like you, I never plan on selling my Rubicon and truthfully, being retired, may never buy another.-----6
Model A Uzi’s
Image
User avatar
OldWin
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8962
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:38 pm

Re: The old Jeep needed a tummy tuck

Post by OldWin »

When I ordered my Rubicon, I said it was my last new Jeep. I wasn't kidding.
I agree on one thing, the 4.0 was the best engine ever put in a Jeep. The 258 is a close second.
"Oh bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
User avatar
Sixgun
Posting leader...
Posts: 18563
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:17 pm
Location: S.E. Pa. Where The Finest Winchesters & Colts Reside

Re: The old Jeep needed a tummy tuck

Post by Sixgun »

What's the difference between the 258 and the 4.0? A few CI and maybe carb. Vs EFI? I'm clueless as I always thought they were the same engine with a few bolt on changes.---6
Model A Uzi’s
Image
User avatar
OldWin
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8962
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:38 pm

Re: The old Jeep needed a tummy tuck

Post by OldWin »

The 258 is a 4.2. Im pretty sure the difference is in the stroke. The 258 is longer. There is an awesome build where you put the 258 crank and rods in a 4.0 and make a stroker. 300hp is achievable and it has crazy torque.
Stock for stock, in my opinion, the 4.0 is a little better in the longevity department than the 258, but it's a much newer design. The 258 was, and is, an excellent engine.
For wheeling, though, I prefer the 4.0 with injection due to its ability to run at high angles and maintain an idle under load.
Normally, I'm anti electronics and tech, but this is one exception.
"Oh bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
User avatar
jeepnik
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6830
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:39 pm
Location: On the Beach

Re: The old Jeep needed a tummy tuck

Post by jeepnik »

Seriously thought about going EFI. But then I remembered the time my fuel pump went out and I was back of beyond. Now all I had to do was duct tape a plastic bottle to the windshield and run a hung of fuel line down to the carb. Just started dripping the fuel into the carb and cranked it up. Motored quite a way until I got to town and could buy a new pump. Try that old trick (Thanks Granvillle and Superpup) with an EFI vehicle.

Actually I've never run into a situation where having EFI would have been any advantage.
Jeepnik AKA "Old Eyes"
"Go low, go slow and preferably in the dark" The old Sarge (he was maybe 24.
"Freedom is never more that a generation from extinction" Ronald Reagan
"Every man should have at least one good rifle and know how to use it" Dad
User avatar
OldWin
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8962
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:38 pm

Re: The old Jeep needed a tummy tuck

Post by OldWin »

I hear you. I wheeled for years with a carb. There is good....and bad. The simplicity is good. The aforementioned high angle always gave flooding issues, and the risk of fire.
With the type of wheeling we do now (very rough, steep, technical and tight), it's a big help with a maintained idle. It leaves a foot free for clutch/brake and you can just steer.
"Oh bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
Post Reply