That's odd...

Welcome to the Leverguns.Com Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here ... politely.

Moderators: AmBraCol, Hobie

Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.

Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Post Reply
Muddly
Levergunner 1.0
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:09 am

That's odd...

Post by Muddly »

Been a very happy user of receiver sights for about 20 year now.
However, I took the plunge and got a Marbles tang sight for my M99 EG .30-30. Used the opens to get a rough zero and toddled off to the range with a box of her favorite loads.
Results were rather disappointing. Got better groups with the open sights. Everything is secure, the adjustments spot on and while there's a bit of fore and aft play to the sight stem, it apparently returns to the same spot.
Had better luck today. I blacked the sights, including the disc and aperture itself. My first 3 went into 3 3/16 at 100. Yuck. The 2nd group, 1 3/8 and the 3rd ,11/16. Now that's more like it!
I'm used to the receiver sight itself being in the picture. The horizontal bar gives a subconscious reference point for canting. This is absent with the tang sight. Sight picture is as uncluttered as it can be, short of a scope.
Apparently the tang sight is an acquired taste.
Anyone else out there find the transition from receiver sight to tang challenging? Hope it isn't just me...
PS. Love the Marbles sight. The only complaint is the tiny lock ring, and I do mean TINY. One from their improved model would be better. Called to see if the rings could be swapped out. Nope...
Anyway. Fine sight, well made.
M. M. Wright
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4296
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:57 pm
Location: Vinita, I.T.

Re: That's odd...

Post by M. M. Wright »

I don't even know how many tang sights I have. Let's see, 86, 2 each 73, Rossi pump 22, 92. Not all are Marbles as there are a couple of Lymans mixed in even though they are a hassle to shim for windage. I'm probably forgetting something but you can see I really like them.
M. M. Wright, Sheriff, Green county Arkansas (1860)
Currently living my eternal life.
NRA Life
SASS
ITSASS
User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 31939
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: That's odd...

Post by AJMD429 »

I got six 'Taurus' generics for the Marbles years ago that are well-made. Sight-wise I like three setups on my leverguns:

24" - Lyman Globe front, and Tang rear (great for 'range work' and just plain shooting things far away)
20" - Gold Bead front, Williams FP rear (sighted in with aperture, but 'ghost-ringed' for hunting)
16" - Williams Firesight front, Marbles 'Bullseye' rear (the FASTEST sight setup I've ever seen, bar none)

'Night Scout' setup - 16" leverguns with:
- Burris FastFire-II holosight, LaserMax pistol-laser under/in-front of the holosight, and
- 200+ lumen flashlight mounted under barrel

The latter setup is awesome for those who live on small farms and need to be out in the yard dealing with a possum or coyote or raccoon at 2 a.m. with 60 seconds 'notice' in the form of bleating lambs, clucking hens, or whatever.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
User avatar
marlinman93
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6432
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
Location: Oregon

Re: That's odd...

Post by marlinman93 »

Because of the different distances from your eye to the sight on receiver sights vs. tang sights, you may need a smaller aperture opening on the tang sight to get the same sight picture. I tend to go to as small an aperture insert as I can on tang sights. I've always found them to work very well if I have the small opening, but with a lager opening they allow for a lot of leeway, and larger group size.
The apertures that come with a Marbles sight are almost always too large, and better for hunting than for target or accurate shooting.
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
Pete44ru
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 11242
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:26 am

Re: That's odd...

Post by Pete44ru »

Muddly wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:54 pm

My first 3 went into 3 3/16 at 100. Yuck. The 2nd group, 1 3/8 and the 3rd ,11/16.

I'm used to the receiver sight itself being in the picture.


That's two misconceptions, right there...……………. :roll:


First, Leverguns with two piece stocks are not target rifles - they were designed for medium-to-large game hunting.

To want target-grade accuracy from one is IMO an unreasonable expectation.




Second, ANY receiver or tang peepsight should never be looked "at".

The aperture should instead be looked "through", no matter the size of the aperture, while focusing on the front sight at the same time the front sight is placed "on target".
The human eye will subconsciously sort things out.



While YMMV, I personally prefer the Lyman tanger to the Marble's - particularly the thicker stem of the Lyman to the somewhat spindlier Marble's stem.



IMO, the windage adjustment of the Marble's is a non-starter for a non-target rifle with hunting sights that are usually "set-n-forget".

Both the Lyman & the Marble's elevation adjustments are nearly identical in use, easily done when longer range game is spotted.

The windage adjustment is only useful one time - zeroing the rifle - and is fairly easily done on the Lyman via shimming one side of the sight base or the other.

If properly done, the shim should be just about invisible to a casual view.


(my $0.02, worth, and just as valuable... ;) )


.
User avatar
Old No7
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3573
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:06 pm
Location: Southern Maine

Re: That's odd...

Post by Old No7 »

Pete44ru wrote: Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:23 am The windage adjustment is only useful one time - zeroing the rifle - and is fairly easily done on the Lyman via shimming one side of the sight base or the other.

If properly done, the shim should be just about invisible to a casual view.
FYI, I've had great results putting on nearly invisible shims using black electrical tape, usually 1 or 2 thicknesses on one side will do, and when carefully trimmed with an Xacto Knife, they virtually disappear.

Actually, putting a full piece of black electrical tape under the sight base itself (use a hole punch to make the holes for mounting screws) works really well to prevent any marking or marring of the gun for when the tang sight may be removed.

Good luck.

Old No7
"Freedom and the Second Amendment... One cannot exist without the other." © 2000 DTH
piller
Posting leader...
Posts: 15189
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:49 pm
Location: South of Dallas

Re: That's odd...

Post by piller »

AJMD429 wrote: Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:12 am I got six 'Taurus' generics for the Marbles years ago that are well-made. Sight-wise I like three setups on my leverguns:

24" - Lyman Globe front, and Tang rear (great for 'range work' and just plain shooting things far away)
20" - Gold Bead front, Williams FP rear (sighted in with aperture, but 'ghost-ringed' for hunting)
16" - Williams Firesight front, Marbles 'Bullseye' rear (the FASTEST sight setup I've ever seen, bar none)

'Night Scout' setup - 16" leverguns with:
- Burris FastFire-II holosight, LaserMax pistol-laser under/in-front of the holosight, and
- 200+ lumen flashlight mounted under barrel

The latter setup is awesome for those who live on small farms and need to be out in the yard dealing with a possum or coyote or raccoon at 2 a.m. with 60 seconds 'notice' in the form of bleating lambs, clucking hens, or whatever.
Function is sometimes preferred to form. Especially when it comes to making a predator have a painful and short lived attempt at a nighttime raid upon your livestock.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Muddly
Levergunner 1.0
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:09 am

Re: That's odd...

Post by Muddly »

I know about looking through the aperture, but you still see the rest of the sight in the peripheral.
Unless you have no potential for windage adjustment in the front sight, why would you shim the base? Remember F.O.R.S. front opposite rear same as referring to direction of sight movement to correct. If hitting left, to move point of impact right, front sight goes left, rear sight goes right.
As far as 2 piece stocks go, lever gun or not, a high level of accuracy isn't terribly difficult to get. Had a Marlin 336 that shot Sierra 130 single shot pistol bullets it an inch or less at 100 with boring regularity. The magazine was trimmed to hold 1 round, making the rifle a 2 shot. Called her Double 30.Had a No4 Mk2 that would shoot 6 inch groups at 300 as issued. One of the benefits of a properly set up rifle with 2 piece stocks is they are excellent in maintaining a consistent point of impact. Shoot any rifle with the same care and attention to technique as you would use on a target rifle and the results may shock you. Shoot a target rifle like its a bullet hose and it will be.
There's also knowing how to shoot and how to shoot THAT rifle. My Marlin would have the first 2 shots touching , or close to it, at 100 and throw the 3rd a tad high and right. So I held a little low left for #3 and presto!
flatnose
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 610
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:24 pm

Re: That's odd...

Post by flatnose »

Years ago, it didn't seem to matter. Factory sights didn't seem to matter. Factory sights, tang sights, scopes, all shot about the same for me. Later on, tang or scopes were equally good to 100 yds or so.
I recently swapped out the factory sights on my miroku 1886 for marbles improved tang sights, in the hope I could see better and get better groups. Nothing wrong with the marbles, but I had better grouping with a lot of eyestrain with the factory sights. I can barely see the 10'' black ring at 100yds now. My multifocal glasses don't help matters.
Muddly
Levergunner 1.0
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:09 am

Re: That's odd...

Post by Muddly »

Flatnose
Its odd you mention this. I pulled the Marbles and remounted the factory semi buckhorn rear sight. With the Marbles, my 50 yard groups were an inch to an inch and a quarter for 3. With the open sight, I just punched 3, half inch groups.
This is officially weird. Maybe the rifle is trying to tell me something...
Still prefer aperture sights though. Absolutely lovin this 30-30!
Post Reply