How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
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How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
I was kinda surprised at these results but pleased, a Thompson had pretty good killing range then.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDnsGe0QwhA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDnsGe0QwhA
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Re: How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
Yepper they have a lot of great videos. Todd
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres
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Re: How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
Thanks Todd, i thought it was pretty interesting guess everybody but me new that a 45 ACP would have that kind of penetration at 400 yards.
My comment about the Thompson is from watching the old show Combat, i always wondered how effective it was at longer ranges.
My comment about the Thompson is from watching the old show Combat, i always wondered how effective it was at longer ranges.
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- AJMD429
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Re: How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
Of course we all know that even if shot 45 degrees or so in the air for maximum possible range, how ever far the bullet goes, it could cripple or kill.
The only bullets where that wouldn't apply would be ones with such low sectional density that their terminal or falling velocity would be so low as to render them unable to penetrate much at all.
The above would apply to accidental death or harm or to use such as terrorizing an enemy encampment.
However if the question is can you intentionally and practically use the cartridge to kill with, it needs to have enough punch to kill without having to go through an eye socket, enough accuracy to reliably hit a vital zone, and a flat enough trajectory to make aiming realistically possible. With modern range finding equipment or enough time to 'walk-in' your shots, a 45 ACP certainly could do the job fairly far out, especially with the higher velocity from a rifle, and the increased accuracy normally offered by a rifle ergonomically and sight-wise. I think the only limitation is the low ballistic coefficient, which means rainbow-trajectory, and can limit penetration vs the same mass in a smaller diameter bullet.
Pretty interesting link though - thanks for sharing...!
The only bullets where that wouldn't apply would be ones with such low sectional density that their terminal or falling velocity would be so low as to render them unable to penetrate much at all.
The above would apply to accidental death or harm or to use such as terrorizing an enemy encampment.
However if the question is can you intentionally and practically use the cartridge to kill with, it needs to have enough punch to kill without having to go through an eye socket, enough accuracy to reliably hit a vital zone, and a flat enough trajectory to make aiming realistically possible. With modern range finding equipment or enough time to 'walk-in' your shots, a 45 ACP certainly could do the job fairly far out, especially with the higher velocity from a rifle, and the increased accuracy normally offered by a rifle ergonomically and sight-wise. I think the only limitation is the low ballistic coefficient, which means rainbow-trajectory, and can limit penetration vs the same mass in a smaller diameter bullet.
Pretty interesting link though - thanks for sharing...!
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Re: How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
Thanks and of coarse i understand that shooting at 400 yards at anything is quite a waste of time and would never be used in a hunting situation.
The penetration of going through a 2x4 at that distance surprised me and proves to me that in a war situation shots at 100 to 150 yards would be pretty effective.
I know when i shot my semi auto Thompson at the steel gong at 100 yards its accurate and give it a good bang.
I realize most effective use for the 45 ACP is at close range .
The penetration of going through a 2x4 at that distance surprised me and proves to me that in a war situation shots at 100 to 150 yards would be pretty effective.
I know when i shot my semi auto Thompson at the steel gong at 100 yards its accurate and give it a good bang.
I realize most effective use for the 45 ACP is at close range .
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- marlinman93
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Re: How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
Not a surprise at all to me. I've played around with handguns in numerous calibers at 400-450 yds. and had good solid strikes on target. At those distances with a 9mm or .45ACP I have to hold over around 12'-15' above the target. And as the shooter in the video discovered, you not only obscure the target, but have to allow for wind drift too. If you have some objects in the background that you can use to aim at, then you can get a better idea where to aim once you see your misses.
I've never been a good enough, or practiced enough handgunner to simply walk up to the line and hit close with the first couple shots at these distances. But I have been able to get on target in 3-4 shots, and once you know your aiming point, you can hit more often than you'd think. At least as long as the wind doesn't wreak havoc on your shooting!
I've never been a good enough, or practiced enough handgunner to simply walk up to the line and hit close with the first couple shots at these distances. But I have been able to get on target in 3-4 shots, and once you know your aiming point, you can hit more often than you'd think. At least as long as the wind doesn't wreak havoc on your shooting!
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Re: How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
I am not anywhere near that good. He hit at 200 yards from a standing unsupported position. I am impressed. I know that Elmer Keith did even more than that, but this guy is no slouch.
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Re: How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
I like that guy's videos. He obviously enjoys what he is doing.
The subject of the .45 ACP and its capabilities reminds me of an article in some gun or pistol digest or other that I read close to 40 years ago by an old gun writer named Claud Hamilton. The article title was "Old Slabsides Needs a Shot of Tonic." I could swear he described penetration failures of standard hardball out of a 1911 when used against North Korean and Chinese soldiers in padded winter uniforms. Does this sound familiar to anyone?
The subject of the .45 ACP and its capabilities reminds me of an article in some gun or pistol digest or other that I read close to 40 years ago by an old gun writer named Claud Hamilton. The article title was "Old Slabsides Needs a Shot of Tonic." I could swear he described penetration failures of standard hardball out of a 1911 when used against North Korean and Chinese soldiers in padded winter uniforms. Does this sound familiar to anyone?
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Re: How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
Back when I had my place in the sticks, I'd take a few shots from the back porch at the woodchucks with various handguns. The .44 Mag ruled out there but I had a lot of fun with a 1911. I remember one that was out 100 yards or so. One shot to the left, one to the right and had him bracketed. Bam, right on the noggin! The ground was really wet that day and I remember it making light splashes that made it very easy to see the bullets land. I miss that place.
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Re: How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
I was shooting 44 mag with gas checks across a field once with the sun behind me and i could watch the bullets go like tracers that was fun.
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Re: How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
I'm of a mind that if you could hit it with a 230fmj, at any distance, would hurt/kill.
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Re: How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
Like Marlinman, I'm not surprised. I've been long range handgun shooting for my entire adult life and consider myself a much better handgun shooter vs. a rifle shooter and as for shotguns, well, I can hit TV's at 10 yards. Hitting the 300 meter pigs (about 2' x 16") with GOOD revolvers with your wrists on a bag is no biggie.
The guy on the video obviously did not know the common secrets of hitting at long range with a handgun where the elevation on the sights has run out. He was also shooting too fast and no one can hold that steady standing on their feet unsupported. You have to be sitting, laying down ...something where you get support. You just raise the front sight over the rear sight all the time keeping your target in sight. Using a 1911 at long range (more than 200 yards) requires the shooter to raise the gun to the point where you are using part of the slide above the rear sight to get on and still see what your shooting at. I own one of the single action Colts that Elmer Keith used in 1928 to hit a 4' x 4' target at 700 yd. Elmer wrote in "Sixguns" that he was aiming at a sage brush way up and left to hit the target with the Colt single action slip gun. I believe it as that gun will hit gallon jugs at 200 meters as long as conditions are right and the shooter does his part. The barrel is 2 and 1/2" long and is in 45 long Colt.
There's no magic or special skill needed for long range handgun shooting........just a good gun, proper ammo, a good rest, and attention to detail while looking down at the sights. It's getting harder for me as my eyes seem to age as I age....mmmmm....
As for killing power, big bullets have more lethality than light bullets at the longer ranges. The buffalo hunter's bullets would go through a buffalo at long range ....say 4-800 yards with a big heavy bullet that only started out at 1100 fps or somewhere in that vicinity. The ballistic coefficient of a 230 gr. 45 caliber bullet is pee poor but like my late good friend Jack Kort said, it ain't nothing to hit a 300 meter target with the equally poor b.c. of a 200 gr. 44-40 bullet...remember now, a good gun, good ammo, and good shooter...and little wind.
Funny thing, we have a .......called by the guys at the gun club..........long range handgun match on Saturday. I laugh when they say "long range". It's only a measly 100 meters.----6
The guy on the video obviously did not know the common secrets of hitting at long range with a handgun where the elevation on the sights has run out. He was also shooting too fast and no one can hold that steady standing on their feet unsupported. You have to be sitting, laying down ...something where you get support. You just raise the front sight over the rear sight all the time keeping your target in sight. Using a 1911 at long range (more than 200 yards) requires the shooter to raise the gun to the point where you are using part of the slide above the rear sight to get on and still see what your shooting at. I own one of the single action Colts that Elmer Keith used in 1928 to hit a 4' x 4' target at 700 yd. Elmer wrote in "Sixguns" that he was aiming at a sage brush way up and left to hit the target with the Colt single action slip gun. I believe it as that gun will hit gallon jugs at 200 meters as long as conditions are right and the shooter does his part. The barrel is 2 and 1/2" long and is in 45 long Colt.
There's no magic or special skill needed for long range handgun shooting........just a good gun, proper ammo, a good rest, and attention to detail while looking down at the sights. It's getting harder for me as my eyes seem to age as I age....mmmmm....
As for killing power, big bullets have more lethality than light bullets at the longer ranges. The buffalo hunter's bullets would go through a buffalo at long range ....say 4-800 yards with a big heavy bullet that only started out at 1100 fps or somewhere in that vicinity. The ballistic coefficient of a 230 gr. 45 caliber bullet is pee poor but like my late good friend Jack Kort said, it ain't nothing to hit a 300 meter target with the equally poor b.c. of a 200 gr. 44-40 bullet...remember now, a good gun, good ammo, and good shooter...and little wind.
Funny thing, we have a .......called by the guys at the gun club..........long range handgun match on Saturday. I laugh when they say "long range". It's only a measly 100 meters.----6
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Re: How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
You watch the 2-3 episodes where they shoot all manner of ammo thru a singleshot 410, trying to stretch the frame or blow it up?. the ones about cut shot shells are purty good too. Todd
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres
250 Savage... its what the 223 wishes it could be...!
250 Savage... its what the 223 wishes it could be...!
Re: How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
when I was a LEO we had a guy that was in charge of all vehicle maintenance for the county that had fought at the battle of the bulge. I had gone in there one day and he was in a talking mood. Being a gun guy I asked him about what he carried and such. He said that at one time he ended up with a Thompson SMG which he considered pretty poor for the type of fighting they were doing at the time. He told of how on one day they were pushing the Germans back and they had come to a place where there was a stone wall about 400 yards from his position. He could see the Germans running down the wall and every once in a while they would pass by a place in the wall where it had been blown away causing a large gap. He was getting frustrated because with the Thompson they were out of range and he couldn't do anything. After having enough of it he raised the ladder sight up on the Thompson and as the next German helmet came close to the gap in the wall he squeezed off a single shot and watched in amazement as the helmet disappeared. As they advanced and came near the wall he went over to where the opening in the wall was and sure enough there was a wounded German laying on the ground holding his blood stained crotch mumbling peter kaput, peter kaput.
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Re: How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
I remember seeing Bob Munden's show many years ago, he did a 200 yard shot with a 38 snub nose. Yeah the target was a ballon attached to a steel plate so the hit might not have been the ballon but still a long poke!
We were playing with cut shot shells 30 years ago, yes they will kill deer.
We were playing with cut shot shells 30 years ago, yes they will kill deer.
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Re: How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
Thanks guys, yep tried the cut shell thing works good.
Rusty that`s funny, also like Gus shootin that Indian in the guts long range in Lonesome Dove.
Rusty that`s funny, also like Gus shootin that Indian in the guts long range in Lonesome Dove.
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Re: How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
I tried to kill a 1400 lb. steer with an old Ithica 1911A1 and some military hardball once. Range was about 4 feet and he just sorta curled up his nose and walked off. Ended up ending him with a 30-30 behind the ear and we had to pull out of the creek with a tractor. I've dropped many of them with a 22WRM single six but the 45 was handy just not up to the job.
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Re: How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
Rusty, that's a great story. Under those combat conditions, give me a Garand please.
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Re: How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
Pitchy, I saw this very thing once when shooting a .44 with hard cast. The sun was just right and I could see the bullet sparkle as it flew. Amazing. Never seen it since.
Re: How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
Its not unusual to see the bullets in flight if the sun is behind you and the background allows the contrast to be seen, so long as the velocity isnt too high. ive seen many 22s, 44s and 45s. They look like a silver streak on lead bullets and a copper covered base looks coppery colored in flight.
Shooting distance isnt that tough, as Six discussed. Most do it wrong by trying to hold the regular sight picture up above the target and covering it up, or at least seriously handicap themselves, try it once or twice halfheartedly, and say it cant be done. I learned of it in Keiths books and started shooting distance in Az in the 80s, then met a number of people up north that did it regularly, including one guy that shot his Colt SAA one handed on everything, including distance out to 500 or so yards. It inspired me to start shooing one handed for the most part, and at distance. Like anything, the more you do it, the simpler it seems. After getting used to shooting distance one handed, using two hands seems like cheating, but you certainly dont lose any two handed ability from shooting one handed (hint, it helps quite a lot because you have to focus on the fundamentals so hard). Hitting the 18" plate at 300 yards one handed about half the time with a g-19 isnt out of the question by any means. Lots of first round hits cold after a few months of regular practice. Guns with better triggers are even easier to shoot, though the 45 auto takes a ton of front sight held up compared t the 9mm because of the velocity difference. Medium power 38s and 44s do very well. 357s are very flat shooting in comparison to most common revolver loads.
With the g19 zeroed to hit about 1 1/2" above the front sight at 25 yards, the 300 yard sight picture is holding the front sight splitting the target elevation wise as best I can, and the rear sight held so it is level about 2/3 down the white dot in the front sight. One handed allows the gun to recoil a bit more before the bullet exits the barrel, two handed takes a tiny bit less front sight held up. Only doing it can give the specifics for the individul and gun/load setup. I used mostly winchester white box 9mm for general shooting in the g19. Hollow points (Rem bulk economy 115 gr hollow points) required slightly more sight held up, the small difference in nose shape seems to have made them drop slightly more.
Shooting distance isnt that tough, as Six discussed. Most do it wrong by trying to hold the regular sight picture up above the target and covering it up, or at least seriously handicap themselves, try it once or twice halfheartedly, and say it cant be done. I learned of it in Keiths books and started shooting distance in Az in the 80s, then met a number of people up north that did it regularly, including one guy that shot his Colt SAA one handed on everything, including distance out to 500 or so yards. It inspired me to start shooing one handed for the most part, and at distance. Like anything, the more you do it, the simpler it seems. After getting used to shooting distance one handed, using two hands seems like cheating, but you certainly dont lose any two handed ability from shooting one handed (hint, it helps quite a lot because you have to focus on the fundamentals so hard). Hitting the 18" plate at 300 yards one handed about half the time with a g-19 isnt out of the question by any means. Lots of first round hits cold after a few months of regular practice. Guns with better triggers are even easier to shoot, though the 45 auto takes a ton of front sight held up compared t the 9mm because of the velocity difference. Medium power 38s and 44s do very well. 357s are very flat shooting in comparison to most common revolver loads.
With the g19 zeroed to hit about 1 1/2" above the front sight at 25 yards, the 300 yard sight picture is holding the front sight splitting the target elevation wise as best I can, and the rear sight held so it is level about 2/3 down the white dot in the front sight. One handed allows the gun to recoil a bit more before the bullet exits the barrel, two handed takes a tiny bit less front sight held up. Only doing it can give the specifics for the individul and gun/load setup. I used mostly winchester white box 9mm for general shooting in the g19. Hollow points (Rem bulk economy 115 gr hollow points) required slightly more sight held up, the small difference in nose shape seems to have made them drop slightly more.
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Re: How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
This reminds me of us kids with a single shot 22, laying up in the hay loft sniping at geese about 250-300 away. Yeah we got good at figuring hold over plus since the geese were on the river we could spot our misses. We made hits frequently but never killed one. Seems goose feathers and 22's at that kinda range stopped a 22 just like a vest.
When I lived in CO I kept my 77/22 sighted in at 100 and would shoot it to 250 for prairie dogs. Was a hoot playing the wind!
On certain occasions I have seen shot charges on the trap range. Not wads but the whole shot string. Also neat when you hit a raindrop just right-little star burst of water.
When I lived in CO I kept my 77/22 sighted in at 100 and would shoot it to 250 for prairie dogs. Was a hoot playing the wind!
On certain occasions I have seen shot charges on the trap range. Not wads but the whole shot string. Also neat when you hit a raindrop just right-little star burst of water.
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Re: How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
Cool stories fellars, Ron that surprises me i`d thought he`d of dropped like a rock.
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Re: How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
This is why I have a love/hate relationship with the internet. They say "ignorance is bliss" and I now believe it. Before the internet I was pretty much by myself in the kinds of shooting I liked to do, being inspired by Elmer Keith and good ole Skeeter......that's why I'm addicted Single action Colts and Rugers and the 44 Spl......then, along comes the Internet and I meet guys like you on Leverguns.....great,now I know there's people who like what I like to do..........but damm, we are all separated by too many miles.
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Re: How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
Couldn’t we make an exception fir Griff? Todd
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres
250 Savage... its what the 223 wishes it could be...!
250 Savage... its what the 223 wishes it could be...!
Re: How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
Down at the old South Coast Gun Club I used to earn enough money, sometimes, to pay for a days shooting. How you ask. By wagering that I could hit a 100 yd gong with a fixed sighted 1911A1. Darn fools would take the wager that I'd pay five bucks for every miss, and they'd pay ten until they called a stop. Most called stop after the first magazine. I know darned good a well I could hit a b27 target at 100 yds all day long.
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Re: How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
Jeep: Beware the man who really knows his weapon.
Re: How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
Actually I had an aiming spot above the gong. Hold on the spot, hit the gong. Sure as heck never told anyone about that.
Jeepnik AKA "Old Eyes"
"Go low, go slow and preferably in the dark" The old Sarge (he was maybe 24.
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"Go low, go slow and preferably in the dark" The old Sarge (he was maybe 24.
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Re: How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
At a range I used to frequent back in the late '70s & early '80s, we had a range officer that had been a Marine from the end of WWII thru VN. he would often bet gunsells that he could hit a manhole cover at 500 yards with his 1911. They regularly had to pay twice the entry fee! Once I figured out just what bush up on the hill above the target to use for aiming... I could hit is quite regularly with my 1911.
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Re: How Far Will a 45 ACP Kill?
Mine was a rock.Griff wrote: ↑Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:44 pm At a range I used to frequent back in the late '70s & early '80s, we had a range officer that had been a Marine from the end of WWII thru VN. he would often bet gunsells that he could hit a manhole cover at 500 yards with his 1911. They regularly had to pay twice the entry fee! Once I figured out just what bush up on the hill above the target to use for aiming... I could hit is quite regularly with my 1911.
Jeepnik AKA "Old Eyes"
"Go low, go slow and preferably in the dark" The old Sarge (he was maybe 24.
"Freedom is never more that a generation from extinction" Ronald Reagan
"Every man should have at least one good rifle and know how to use it" Dad
"Go low, go slow and preferably in the dark" The old Sarge (he was maybe 24.
"Freedom is never more that a generation from extinction" Ronald Reagan
"Every man should have at least one good rifle and know how to use it" Dad