1894 winchester serial #'s

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Gary4242
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1894 winchester serial #'s

Post by Gary4242 »

I have come across several serial number manufacture dates for Model 94's. Some date my gun as built in 1900 while others have it as 1904. It is 210XXX. Any comments on which site provides the accurate list? TIA Gary
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Re: 1894 winchester serial #'s

Post by oldAG »

My reference gives serial number at end of year 1900 as 204427, and end of year 1901 as 233975.
Yours made some time in 1901.
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Re: 1894 winchester serial #'s

Post by Griff »

A few years ago, contrary to information that had long been accepted as accurate, someone discovered the "polishing room" records. It appears that serial #'s were affixed to recievers before polishing and bluing. Some folks are using that date as the "born on" date for their purposes. The other records that Madis relied on, (if I understand correctly), was the date the finished rifle was sent to the warehouse. Which is correct? Who knows, IMO, it's a matter of opinion or semantics. I've seen various dates, even for "lettered" rifles with up to three dates: the polishing room date, the date sent to the warehouse, and the ship date. Again, which is correct? All three? When is a gun, a gun?
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Re: 1894 winchester serial #'s

Post by Pete44ru »

Griff wrote: Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:44 am
Which is correct ?

Who knows, IMO, it's a matter of opinion or semantics.

I've seen various dates, even for "lettered" rifles with up to three dates: the polishing room date, the date sent to the warehouse, and the ship date.

Again, which is correct? All three? When is a gun, a gun ?

IMO, and Winchester's (on their SN/Date web posting), the DOM is when the rifles arrive at the polishing room completely assembled, to get a fluff-n-buff before moving to the warehouse.

IDK how long a particular rifle's stay in the polishing room was, but given the Winchester factory department managers drive, I would think that the polishing would only take one day.

(piece-work pay, I would think - the more pieces completed, the more pay $$)

Ergo, Winchester uses the Polishing Room Records as the DOM reference.

What is known is:

Model 1894/94 ( & presumably other models) receivers had the SN applied just prior to dumping the into a parts bin, where they were grabbed randomly for assembly, as well as all other parts - So, how could existence as a part qualify as a DOM for a completed gun ready for sale ?

When a completed/finished rifle was sent to the warehouse for shipment, Winchester records indicate that some rifles were sent out the same day, while others have sat in the warehouse for years before being shipped - so, how can one apply a rifle's DOM to a somewhat random process ?

The Polishing Room records are the only constant in Winchester's product flow - as when the polishing/etc was completed, the rifle's were immediately (most likely at the end of each work shift) sent to the warehouse.


This is what Winchester (the horse's mouth) has published as "Manufacturing Dates By Serial Number":

http://www.winchesterguns.com/content/d ... uments.pdf

I for one, would rather rely on the manufacturer's statement, than anyone else's (including book authors) opinions - whose estimates were published before Winchester released the factory records.
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Last edited by Pete44ru on Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 1894 winchester serial #'s

Post by Old Savage »

To complicate an overview in modern legal terms the receiver with the serial# is the gun. All else can be changed.
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Re: 1894 winchester serial #'s

Post by Griff »

Thank you Pete. I completely missed that this was a polishing AFTER bluing.
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Re: 1894 winchester serial #'s

Post by Sixgun »

Because of various factors, it's near impossible to be 100% correct when a rifle was manufactured......parts sitting in bins, special orders taking longer than standard guns, guns forgotten in areas of the plant, tool room jobs, experimentals.... etc...etc......

I just go by Madis and leave it al that. This presentation 1866 SRC ..Full nickel plate, fancy wood is owned by a buddy who I have not seen in a few years. His great uncle won It in a raffle at a county fair in 1892. It's still pretty much like new. Madis records puts it at sometime in the 1870's so I factory lettered it and it was shipped in 1892.

And to think I could have had it for 15 g's.-----6. Did not want to tie up those kind of bucks at my age.

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Re: 1894 winchester serial #'s

Post by JerryB »

Several years ago some one posted several pages of the polishing room dates. I did save them so I will see if I can find them to post. I reckon a bunch here saved them too. I believe they covered several models also. Seems like it was the late Mike from California.
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OldWin
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Re: 1894 winchester serial #'s

Post by OldWin »

I always figured when the number got put on the receiver, a rifle was born.
The rest is just parts.
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Aussie Chris
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Re: 1894 winchester serial #'s

Post by Aussie Chris »

JerryB wrote: Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:39 pm Several years ago some one posted several pages of the polishing room dates. I did save them so I will see if I can find them to post. I reckon a bunch here saved them too. I believe they covered several models also. Seems like it was the late Mike from California.
I think this may be the thread you are looking for: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29545&p=423795#p423795

Nice 66 SRC Jack, sell the BAR and buy it already :mrgreen:

This is handy for checking dates too https://winchestercollector.org/dates/

I think a few out there will use the source that suits them regarding what may or not be classed as an 'Antique', regardless of what may be correct or not.

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Re: 1894 winchester serial #'s

Post by Sixgun »

Aussie Chris wrote: Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:07 pm
Nice 66 SRC Jack, sell the BAR and buy it already :mrgreen:

Chris.....believe me, if there was a way of me getting my hands on 15g's without the Miss's knowing about it, I would have posted pics of that 66......in MY gunroom. That's a lot of loot to hide. :D ----6
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OldWin
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Re: 1894 winchester serial #'s

Post by OldWin »

One more point on the serial numbers and I'll stop.
I was always a little suspect of the ones pushing the polishing records. If you own a bunch of "antiques", and can effectively cut the number down of what is considered as such, then you just increased the value of those that are.


Hey Six,
You should buy that 66. When it cools down a little I will put on my "coat" and come down for a "visit". :D
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KirkD
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Re: 1894 winchester serial #'s

Post by KirkD »

Most of the sources in books or online, including George Madis, are quite badly off when it comes to early Model 1894 production. For example, I owned a Model 1894 38-55 that Madis said was made in 1896. The actual, original Winchester records showed that it was received in the Winchester warehouse in December of 1899 and shipped early in 1900. I would have liked the rifle to have been made in 1896 like Madis said, but the actual, original Winchester book, preserved in the Cody museum, said otherwise, and that was the reality of it. There has been a lot of discussion as to why Madis was so far off, but no one really knows. You can get a more accurate date from this link here https://winchestercollector.org/dates/ but even there, your specific serial number may vary. If you want to know the real dates for your Winchester 1894, you will need a serial number check from the Cody Museum, which possesses the original Winchester records. Nothing beats the actual, original records from Winchester, and the Cody museum has them. They will give you, in most cases, three dates:

1. Polishing room date (the date your receiver was serialized) This will be the earliest of the three dates, as the receiver was serialized before assembly.
2. The date your finished rifle was received in the Winchester warehouse (the day your rifle completed assembly or at the latest, the next working day after)
3. The date your rifle was shipped from the Winchester warehouse.

If you have any doubt about whether the curator misread the records for your particular serial number, you can also request a scan/photo of the actual original page showing your serial number, so that you can see with your own eyes when it was received in warehouse and shipped from warehouse. I usually obtain this information for each one of my "keeper" vintage Winchesters.
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Re: 1894 winchester serial #'s

Post by Pete44ru »

.

Nice to see you posting, Kirk - Please stay healthy. . :)


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Re: 1894 winchester serial #'s

Post by KirkD »

Pete44ru wrote: Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:48 pmNice to see you posting, Kirk - Please stay healthy. . :)
Thanks. It seems that I have been just swamped for the past year or so, otherwise I would post more often.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
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Re: 1894 winchester serial #'s

Post by OldWin »

Hope things slow down a little Kirk. We miss you around here.
"Oh bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
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