Does anybody have real-world experience running lots of .357 mag through an 1873?
Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
-
- Levergunner
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:19 pm
Does anybody have real-world experience running lots of .357 mag through an 1873?
Okay here goes...
I have been lusting after a Miroku 1873 .357 mag for a couple of years now. I have not pulled the trigger because I fear that the "toggle link" design will not last long with standard, off the shelf .357 magnum ammo through it. I've heard everything from, "Oh it'll handle SAAMI spec ammo just fine," to "it should only be used lightly with .357" to, "It'll handle a few .357 but it won't last very long"
When I buy a gun, I want to be able to shoot it. Not necessarily buffalo bore 180 gr super strong ammo, but whatever I buy from American Eagle, etc. from the factory I want to be able to put through this gun.
I have 2 Marlin 94CB .357 mags I can use for stouter ammo. But I do want to be able to shoot .357 through the Miroku without worrying that the darn thing will bust after less than a thousand rounds.
Curious what the real world experience is?
On one hand, it's a toggle-link and apparently a weak design and .357 is higher pressure than it was designed for, on the other hand why would they chamber it if it wouldn't fire it safety? But how long will it last with standard, off the shelf .357 ammo?
Ugh
I have been lusting after a Miroku 1873 .357 mag for a couple of years now. I have not pulled the trigger because I fear that the "toggle link" design will not last long with standard, off the shelf .357 magnum ammo through it. I've heard everything from, "Oh it'll handle SAAMI spec ammo just fine," to "it should only be used lightly with .357" to, "It'll handle a few .357 but it won't last very long"
When I buy a gun, I want to be able to shoot it. Not necessarily buffalo bore 180 gr super strong ammo, but whatever I buy from American Eagle, etc. from the factory I want to be able to put through this gun.
I have 2 Marlin 94CB .357 mags I can use for stouter ammo. But I do want to be able to shoot .357 through the Miroku without worrying that the darn thing will bust after less than a thousand rounds.
Curious what the real world experience is?
On one hand, it's a toggle-link and apparently a weak design and .357 is higher pressure than it was designed for, on the other hand why would they chamber it if it wouldn't fire it safety? But how long will it last with standard, off the shelf .357 ammo?
Ugh
- Griff
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 20803
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:56 pm
- Location: OH MY GAWD they installed a STOP light!!!
Re: Does anybody have real-world experience running lots of .357 mag through an 1873?
I have two 1873s in 45 Colt. I couldn't really tell about one in .357... but... I have many friends that use them, mostly with .38 Special ammo... for thousands of rounds per year... not just a few hunting or plinking rounds a few times a month... But, literally, thousands of rounds per year. The rifles are tested to SAAMI specs. I've owned a Uberti 1873 in 45 Colt for 32 years... in that time I've shot it literally uncounted times. For the first several years I shot it nearly every weekend in matches and several multi-day matches. I have replaced it as my main match rifle with another 1873, (different configuration), but still shoot it on occasion. It's as good as it ever was. I don't shoot any whimpy cowboy loads in it... My 45 Colts are loaded to 45 Colt levels... as I shoot the same ammo in my Colt SAAs... and if you've ever fired full house 45 Colt loads, then you know they don't take any 2nd place to any .357 factory loads.
I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a .357 Magnum version with SAAMI level .357 ammo in it. Aye gawd man, Uberti chambers the .44 Magnum in this same rifle. If that's not an adequate testament to its inherent safety, then I don't know what is.
I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a .357 Magnum version with SAAMI level .357 ammo in it. Aye gawd man, Uberti chambers the .44 Magnum in this same rifle. If that's not an adequate testament to its inherent safety, then I don't know what is.
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
- gamekeeper
- Spambot Zapper
- Posts: 17325
- Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:32 pm
- Location: Over the pond unfortunately.
Re: Does anybody have real-world experience running lots of .357 mag through an 1873?
The toggle link may not be as strong as some other actions but it is not a weak action.
If more men loved and cherished their wives as much as I love bacon the world would be a much better place.
Re: Does anybody have real-world experience running lots of .357 mag through an 1873?
This one gets me every time.
A cartridge gun does not depend entirely on its lock up.
At peak pressure the cartridge grips the chamber.
The pressure if it did all bear on the bolt would most likely lock the action solid !
If anything a squib load bears more on a mechanism!
Uberti and others worked this out all by themselves so buy the blasted thing and shoot it with what ever ammo you want.
I bets toggle links wear via water and dust before any amount of pressure in the chamber!
N.
A cartridge gun does not depend entirely on its lock up.
At peak pressure the cartridge grips the chamber.
The pressure if it did all bear on the bolt would most likely lock the action solid !
If anything a squib load bears more on a mechanism!
Uberti and others worked this out all by themselves so buy the blasted thing and shoot it with what ever ammo you want.
I bets toggle links wear via water and dust before any amount of pressure in the chamber!
N.
Psalm ch8.
Because I wish I could!
Because I wish I could!
- wvfarrier
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1440
- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:27 am
- Location: West (by GOD) Virginia
Re: Does anybody have real-world experience running lots of .357 mag through an 1873?
I have a miroku 1873 in 357 mag with 24" barrel that literally has 10,000+ rounds through it. It has never, not once, had a failure to feed using 357 or 38s. I use it as my loaner gun for friends and family. It has probably harvested 20 or more whitetail deer, 2 black bear, and dozens of varmints. I wouldnt hesitste to buy another.
A bondservant of our Lord, Christ Jesus
Re: Does anybody have real-world experience running lots of .357 mag through an 1873?
Being European, Uberti will design and proof to the hotter CIP pressure standard, which is 44 ksi instead of the 35 set by SAAMI. That said, I don't own one and can't provide "real world" data.
- vancelw
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 3926
- Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:56 pm
- Location: 90% NE Texas and 10% SE Montana
Re: Does anybody have real-world experience running lots of .357 mag through an 1873?
I have a Miroku 1873 Winchester in .357.
I've shot it a bunch, though not gotten thousands of rounds through this one, yet.
The metal used in the toggle action today is not the same metal used 145 years ago.
I've shot it a bunch, though not gotten thousands of rounds through this one, yet.
The metal used in the toggle action today is not the same metal used 145 years ago.
"Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one less scoundrel in the world." - Thomas Carlyle
Re: Does anybody have real-world experience running lots of .357 mag through an 1873?
Tell us about the two bears. How big? Were they DRTs? What ammo? I'm impressed.wvfarrier wrote: ↑Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:37 am I have a miroku 1873 in 357 mag with 24" barrel that literally has 10,000+ rounds through it. It has never, not once, had a failure to feed using 357 or 38s. I use it as my loaner gun for friends and family. It has probably harvested 20 or more whitetail deer, 2 black bear, and dozens of varmints. I wouldnt hesitste to buy another.
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
- Sixgun
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 18565
- Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:17 pm
- Location: S.E. Pa. Where The Finest Winchesters & Colts Reside
Re: Does anybody have real-world experience running lots of .357 mag through an 1873?
Speaking about more modern reproductions, say, the last 20-25 years...not the junk that was made in the sixties through the eighties.....although some of them have been used hard and keep on ticking. I believe that keeping the innards of a gun clean is most important for longevity. As others have said, these guns are proofed and I'm sure, examples are tested with thousands of rounds before being released to the public.
Just like a car engine a gun will wear fast if there is grit in the moving parts. Clean oil/grease is the barrier between moving parts. I remember back in the eighties we popped the heads off of a Chevy smallblock that had over a hundred thou. miles on it and found hardly no ring at the top of the cylinder wall.....the owner of this pick up truck worked for his dad who owned a construction company with unlimited access to free engine oil so he changed it every thousand miles.
The guys here know I shoot leverguns and pump rifles from mostly 1870's-1920 period and some have logged over 5,000 rounds and are still nice and tight.
So...from time to time, pop off those sidelates on your '73, remove the toggle links, flush out and recoil/grease.----6
Just like a car engine a gun will wear fast if there is grit in the moving parts. Clean oil/grease is the barrier between moving parts. I remember back in the eighties we popped the heads off of a Chevy smallblock that had over a hundred thou. miles on it and found hardly no ring at the top of the cylinder wall.....the owner of this pick up truck worked for his dad who owned a construction company with unlimited access to free engine oil so he changed it every thousand miles.
The guys here know I shoot leverguns and pump rifles from mostly 1870's-1920 period and some have logged over 5,000 rounds and are still nice and tight.
So...from time to time, pop off those sidelates on your '73, remove the toggle links, flush out and recoil/grease.----6
- Ji in Hawaii
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1980
- Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:05 pm
- Location: Moku Manu, Hawai'i
Re: Does anybody have real-world experience running lots of .357 mag through an 1873?
In our present world ruled by liability paranoia and ambulance chasing lawyers, manufacturers will test an item way beyond design to be 200% sure it is safe before putting it on the market. Miroku made firearms are some of the highest quality made firearms on Earth. That combined with the higher quality materials available today makes the modern 1873 Winchester plenty safe to shoot full power 357 ammunition. I would not hesitate.
Illegitimus Non Carborundum
Akā, ʻo ka poʻe hilinaʻi aku iā Iēhova, e ulu hou nō ko lākou ikaika;
E piʻi ʻēheu aku nō lākou i luna, e like me nā ʻaito;
E holo nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e māloʻeloʻe,
E hele mua nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e maʻule.
`Isaia 40:31
Akā, ʻo ka poʻe hilinaʻi aku iā Iēhova, e ulu hou nō ko lākou ikaika;
E piʻi ʻēheu aku nō lākou i luna, e like me nā ʻaito;
E holo nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e māloʻeloʻe,
E hele mua nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e maʻule.
`Isaia 40:31