Love that 2-4D !

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crs
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Love that 2-4D !

Post by crs »

One day after spraying, the black locust and devil weed leaves are wilting! Immediate gratification.

There was a copse of 5-6 black locust trees in the west bottom and I did my best to poison them over the past 3 years, but one was 25 feet tall and the top lived. So, I cut them all down and poisoned the stumps with Green Light stump killer(SUPPOSED TO KILL THE ROOTS).
Last week I mowed that area with my new JD bush hog and found 50-100 sprouts up to one foot tall , so some of the roots had not died.
Sprayed all them with 2 gallons of 2-4 D and one day later, most were on the way out, with withered leaves and stems.

I went back today to get the ones that were missed AND DISCOVERED A COUPLE HIDING ON THE FENCE LINE AND ZAPPED THEM.

It is good to have a product that really works! It smells to high Heaven, but it is worth it.
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Re: Love that 2-4D !

Post by Marvin S »

Pretty much a staple of life here in the river bottom along with glyphosate.
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Re: Love that 2-4D !

Post by harry »

There are only 2 ingredients in Agent Orange 2-4D is one of them and its 50% of the mix
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Re: Love that 2-4D !

Post by Bill in Oregon »

I hate that I have to use these products, but I also hate the alternative.
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Re: Love that 2-4D !

Post by crs »

Bill,
I know what you mean, but,,,.

I am using an agricultural weed control that includes 2-4 D and without such things, controlling the problem plants and keeping a good horse pasture would not be practical or maybe even possible. I typically spray once yearly and spot treat as needed as with the black locust trees.

One hunting lease I was on was ruined by the proliferation of black locust thorn trees. They have thorns up to 3 inches long and are as bad as any thorn trees I have seen in Africa.
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Re: Love that 2-4D !

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crs wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:30 pm Bill,
I know what you mean, but,,,.

I am using an agricultural weed control that includes 2-4 D and without such things, controlling the problem plants and keeping a good horse pasture would not be practical or maybe even possible. I typically spray once yearly and spot treat as needed as with the black locust trees.

One hunting lease I was on was ruined by the proliferation of black locust thorn trees. They have thorns up to 3 inches long and are as bad as any thorn trees I have seen in Africa.
I don't know if they are the same ones or not, but I've literally RUN into them in Ohio and Indiana while rousting around in the woods. PITA, for sure.
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Re: Love that 2-4D !

Post by AJMD429 »

What's bad about black locust? It doesn't hurt sheep or goats that I know of, but does it mess with horses...?Around our place we love them because they make great firewood, great fence posts, grow fast, and stabilize AND nitrogenize the soil.

As far as glyphosate, it does up-regulate aromatase enzymes permanently in some cases, and is thought to be one reason we are seeing so much low testosterone (due to increased conversion to estrogen). An inexpensive pill called anastrazole given in really low doses seems to correct the issue, but it's kind of creepy a chemical can have a permanent effect. Be very careful using it...! Lord only knows what 2-4D does; I think it is prohibited in some places (although that is often more a political than biochemical process).
Last edited by AJMD429 on Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Love that 2-4D !

Post by Beaker »

harry wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:10 pm There are only 2 ingredients in Agent Orange 2-4D is one of them and its 50% of the mix
The other was 2,4,5 T. 2,4D is 2,4 dichlorophenoxyacetic acid. 2,4,5 T is 2,4,5 trichlorophenoxy acetic acid. A contaminate and by product of 2,4,5 T manufacture is dioxin which is mostly responsible for the ill health effects of agent orange.
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Re: Love that 2-4D !

Post by Beaker »

The best luck I have had killing stumps and tree roots (including locust trees) is drilling half inch diameter holes in the stump around the perimeter of the stump into the sapwood, then filling the holes with rock salt. Has worked every time and with no apparent damage to the surrounding vegetation.
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Re: Love that 2-4D !

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Beaker wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:49 pm The best luck I have had killing stumps and tree roots (including locust trees) is drilling half inch diameter holes in the stump around the perimeter of the stump into the sapwood, then filling the holes with rock salt. Has worked every time and with no apparent damage to the surrounding vegetation.
Copper sulfate isn't bad either. Rots it pretty quick. It's in the plumbing section for taking roots out of the drain pipes...
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Re: Love that 2-4D !

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Re: Love that 2-4D !

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Back in WWII, the soldiers loved the powder that they could use if they got lice. Years later it was implicated in causing Eagle eggs to be too thin. There are many man made products which cause unintended consequences.
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Re: Love that 2-4D !

Post by Beaker »

piller wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:53 pm Back in WWII, the soldiers loved the powder that they could use if they got lice. Years later it was implicated in causing Eagle eggs to be too thin. There are many man made products which cause unintended consequences.
That would have been DDT, dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane. Yes, many unintended consequences, thankfully it was banned years ago.
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Re: Love that 2-4D !

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piller wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:53 pm Back in WWII, the soldiers loved the powder that they could use if they got lice. Years later it was implicated in causing Eagle eggs to be too thin. There are many man made products which cause unintended consequences.
They were still using it in the late seventies. The day room furniture was infested with lice and crabs.
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Re: Love that 2-4D !

Post by crs »

AJMD, Blaine,,,
In my experience, the 2-4D is effective only on broadleaf plants and has no visible effect on grasses of any type.
All the common such products are labeled as safe for live stock as soon as the surface is dry, which is PDQ in Texas; true or not, we always move the horses to another pasture before spraying and keep them there a day just to be sure. By the time we let them back onto the sprayed pasture, many types of broadleaf weeds are already showing sign of wilt. :)

This is my first experience with black locust and hopefully my last. Whatever their good points, their bad ones offset the good ones.
No need for them for fence posts, because we have oil field pipe (Texas remember?) and cedar trees and T posts.
No need for them for firewood because we have natural gas and electricity, oak trees and lots of pecan trees.
And they make impenetrable thickets of thorns which are not friendly to horses, riders, hikers, farm workers or me.

BTW, I am also making good progress removing other thorn trees such as mesquite (real water thirsty) and the really nasty Bois De Ark (pronounced bo- dark). The latter also require a chain saw followed by stump poison to avoid an outbreak of thorny limbs on the stump; after that they are slow to rot and if cut from a fence line, make long lasting posts(0f which we have a few).
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Re: Love that 2-4D !

Post by vancelw »

AJMD429 wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:28 pm What's bad about black locust? It doesn't hurt sheep or goats that I know of, but does it mess with horses...?Around our place we love them because they make great firewood, great fence posts, grow fast, and stabilize AND nitrogenize the soil.
I'm not sure that what we call black locusts in North Texas is what you call black locusts in Indiana/Ohio.

Pretty much any tree with thorns gets labeled as a locusts around here, even if it's not
These trees are scrub. Seldom get very large before dying out. They will bleed you to death on a coon hunt. Forget riding a horse or ATV through them. Tractors get flats for years trying to mow them. The thorns get in the tire and work their way in, puncturing the innertube over and over. They multiply and spread worse than cedar, which is a weed around here

Unfortunately, more of us have had to resort to using 2, 4-d since MSMA has been restricted. One good reason to apply it is it kills nutgrass, which is not easy to kill.
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Re: Love that 2-4D !

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There was a black locust tree on my Grandmother's farm near Turpin Oklahoma. In the panhandle. It was about 40 feet tall, 5 feet diameter at the base, rough bark, small leaves along a thin green central stem, and clusters of dark thorns up to 4-5 inches long and smooth with occasional perpendicular spikes. As a kid, I used to cut the thorns off and pretend that they were steel tips to lash onto spears I made out of pigweed. Those spikes were strong. As a 5 year old I got in trouble for killing a rattlesnake with my spear. The snake was probably 3 feet long, and my parents thought I should have backed away until I could run away and come get Dad or Uncle Homer to get a gun and kill it. Where was the fun in that? That spike went through that snake and into the ground. I probably stabbed it around 20 times. By the end, that spike from the black locust tree was still sharp enough to go through that snake with ease. I just didn't really think of the fact that that snake could have killed me.
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Re: Love that 2-4D !

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crs wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:53 pm BTW, I am also making good progress removing other thorn trees such as mesquite (real water thirsty) and the really nasty Bois De Ark (pronounced bo- dark). The latter also require a chain saw followed by stump poison to avoid an outbreak of thorny limbs on the stump; after that they are slow to rot and if cut from a fence line, make long lasting posts(0f which we have a few).
Where I grew up, Bois de Arc was known as Osage Orange. Those thorns on it are nasty. Small and sharp enough to penetrate leather gloves. The green balls were taken off and put in the pantry of many homes to keep out cockroaches. The wood is light and strong. It makes for a good walking stick if you can find a long enough piece. When peeled, the wood is white at first. It turns orangish over time unless you keep it oiled with mineral oil or some such oil. If allowed to get old, the trees can get 30 feet tall.
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Re: Love that 2-4D !

Post by Mainehunter »

I have a good pile of Black Locust trees that were cut up to clear some land years ago by a good friend of mine who is a forester. He thinks the trees were planted at some point since they aren't native to Maine.

Comparing it to Hornbeam "Iron Wood" as they call it up here, they are similar it terms of strength and durability but rot resistance Black Locust gets the nod. They make excellent wood handles for axes, shovels, fence posts or anything that will see the elements. I do have a handful of ball bearings that were made with Black Locust.

With the positives there are negatives with this wood. Just like Hornbeam they are a "Mother" to work with. Dulles blades faster than you can say Mississippi!!! Can't burn it unless you really try and since being a denser wood it's heavier. You'll definitely notice it when you pick up an axe handle that has Black Locust handle! It's almost like working with petrified wood.
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Re: Love that 2-4D !

Post by Marvin S »

We call Osage Orange, Hedge in my parts. Miles of fence post made from it as it just gets harder and tougher with age. Black locust in the hills and Honey locusts in the river bottom.
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