College or not?

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Rusty
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College or not?

Post by Rusty »

I know of a young man living in West Virginia that is doing very well in high school. He has been holding a 4.0 grade average studying power and engineering. West Virginia University has taken notice of him and has sent him several letters trying to get him to go to school there but he's having trouble making up his mind. What advice would y'all offer a young man in this situation?
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Blaine
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Re: College or not?

Post by Blaine »

Power and Engineering? Sounds interesting and lucrative. I've heard good engineers are scarce and well paid.
If he was thinking about a four-year liberal arts degree, I'd nix that and point him to a trade school.
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Beaker
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Re: College or not?

Post by Beaker »

Not enough information. What are his other options he is considering, if any? What are his other interests? Does he no what he wants to do or what specific area or field he is really interested in. Would he rather work or enjoy working with his hands vs. his mind or both? What other talents does he have? etc. Obviously he is intelligent and should consider and would benefit from some type of postsecondary education whether it is college, vocational, technical or other type of schooling.
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Re: College or not?

Post by Bill in Oregon »

If he is reluctant because he is getting zero or poor advice from his family, I hope in the name of God someone steps in. Remember the lessons in "October Sky"?
Thanks for putting this up, Rusty.
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GunnyMack
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Re: College or not?

Post by GunnyMack »

Just throwing this out-
US ARMY or NAVY
Combat engineers or try to get into nuclear engineering for experience then use the GI bill to pay for school.
He will mature some, learn the value of being on a team, make some great connections for civilian life later. Or if he stays in he can retire then go into and 2nd career in private sector at age 50 or so...
No I didn't serve, wanted to but my knees weren't good enough. I do feel that if young people are ' at a cross road' in their life the military can be the answer...
As for college, yes BUT not a liberal school!!!
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Chuck 100 yd
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Re: College or not?

Post by Chuck 100 yd »

GunnyMack wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:27 pm Just throwing this out-
US ARMY or NAVY
Combat engineers or try to get into nuclear engineering for experience then use the GI bill to pay for school.
He will mature some, learn the value of being on a team, make some great connections for civilian life later. Or if he stays in he can retire then go into and 2nd career in private sector at age 50 or so...
No I didn't serve, wanted to but my knees weren't good enough. I do feel that if young people are ' at a cross road' in their life the military can be the answer...
As for college, yes BUT not a liberal school!!!
I second that motion . ^^^ :D
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Blaine
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Re: College or not?

Post by Blaine »

GunnyMack wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:27 pm Just throwing this out-
US ARMY or NAVY
Combat engineers or try to get into nuclear engineering for experience then use the GI bill to pay for school.
He will mature some, learn the value of being on a team, make some great connections for civilian life later. Or if he stays in he can retire then go into and 2nd career in private sector at age 50 or so...
No I didn't serve, wanted to but my knees weren't good enough. I do feel that if young people are ' at a cross road' in their life the military can be the answer...
As for college, yes BUT not a liberal school!!!
I'll go one a little better (but, harder) ROTC in college. Lot's tuition help and when you graduate you're an officer in the Military. It used to be 7 year military obligation.
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Ray Newman
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Re: College or not?

Post by Ray Newman »

Is he a junior or a senior? Has he taken the SAT?

If the University is “interested” in him, find out what ”interested” actually mean: early university and/or program acceptance?, a scholarship?, housing?, etc.? It just might be advisable for him to contact the University and ask about an “open house”/visit to the department that is expressing interest.

As far as joining the military, today’s military is PC and not the same as it was 10, 20, or more years ago. And if he goes to a civilian college/university and is commissioned via ROTC, he will be in competition with the service academy graduates who -- more often than not -- will come first.
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Tycer
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Re: College or not?

Post by Tycer »

Engineering can be learned via trade school and IMO power tech is going through a major change with AI and robotics and no school will be able to keep the pace. Too much Bureaucracy to be agile. He could just find a great company and go sell himself.

I’m also a proponent of figuring out which prerequisites he does not want to take and can test out of, studying his best on his own and test out of those. If he’s a junior and has the cojones he can end high school, take the GED, and spend his senior year busting his back side on testing out and enter college as a sophomore or junior and then take just the courses that apply to his future.
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stretch
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Re: College or not?

Post by stretch »

Wow. Good question, and not such an easy answer.

One advantage of a college education is that it opens
doors that would otherwise be closed. No matter how
competent one is, some jobs will simply not be offered
if a college degree isn't part of the resume. I've seen
this a number of times, just recently with a coworker
going for a promotion in the IT field. He was told that the
only reason he wasn't chosen was because the winning
candidate had a degree. And he's VERY competent and
entirely self-taught.

That said, one can make a fine living without a degree.
If there is a tremendous oppurtunity with a bright future
and very good income, then I'd say take that job now.

If a college offers him a free ride - full scholarship and NO
LOANS - then take that. Don't go deeply into debt to go to
college, though. Maybe for med school, because there's
a reasonably quick return on investment for an MD - at
least for many specialties.

Then there's always the service. If nothing else, it's a
GREAT 4-year crash course in life. Some military specialties
have a terrific future, both in and out of the service.

I went into the Air Force for 4 years, then to college, and
then to work. But there are many, many other paths.

In any event, it sounds like he has a bright future. :D
Best of luck to him!

-Stretch
Rusty
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Re: College or not?

Post by Rusty »

Thank you very much guys. This is a single mother raising two sons. I just wanted to giver her some help with the thought process. Mom wants to see the young man go to college. The young man just isn't sure and can't make up his mind. With no direct male influence in his life I was hoping he would benefit from someone else's life experiences.
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Paladin
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Re: College or not?

Post by Paladin »

WVU School of Engineering is a great school. If they are offering it as a free ride consider it a WIN. Life without a college degree is full of people who are very prejudiced against anyone who did not pay academia. You can still make good money just not as easily. I did the military (active and guard) for long enough to retire and Law enforcement even got through the military requirement for a degree to become an officer without having one. Now ontop of retirement I work as a contractor from between $500 to $2000 (depending on the job a day in CONUS when I work). It would have been easier with the degree but could not put up with the college stupidity in the mid and late 70s and now it is worse.
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new pig hunter
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Re: College or not?

Post by new pig hunter »

Already well said above, and I wholeheartedly agree: an ROTC program. That is my background: 4 years of Navy ROTC at a world-class university, then 4 years of payback as a Navy Officer in the fleet. Then out of the Navy and back into college for a second degree, this time mechanical engr'ing with GI Bill taking care of the finances. Then by virtue of the engr'ing degree, I started a well-paying engr'ing career. Then joined the Navy Reserves as a Seabee officer. Thus 2 parallel careers for 16 years until I got my 20 for Navy retirement. Continued with the civilian engr'ing career to retirement. I was able to "blend/overlap" to a small degree the Navy + civilian careers, using one to help the other, vice versa.
--- A huge bennie of the military: lifetime access to any military base in the world for a place to stay (think "hotel room"). VA healthcare if I want it. A huge professional network of classmates, etc to help in almost every endeavor. And other benefits I probably don't even know about.

Is it easy ?? No. Is it worth it ?? For me, personally, an unqualified Yes.

The military experience as a young kid "grew" me up, made me tough, gave me self-confidence, broadened my shoulders, thickened my skin. Especially the officer part: at age 22 I had 30 people working for me. There's just no way a civilian will get "that" sort of hands-on leadership & management experience. When I finally got into the "civilian" world at age 30 as a new hire engineer, I was head & shoulders above the 22-yr-old new hire engineers. And I was hired for that exact reason: the manager was ex-Marine Corps officer and was tired of 22-yr-old know-nothing kiddies. He wanted a guy who already had a "real world" track record as a veteran, and being an officer was icing on that cake for him. Having toughed-it-out in the military gave me the edge when it came to getting hired, and getting promoted along the way.

I realize I'm just one voice on this thread, but I have a network of guys "just like me" that took the same route and are all smiles now that we'all are at the other end of the working game. So I'm confident I am speaking for them also.
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Re: College or not?

Post by GunnyMack »

New Pig Hunter- I want to THANK YOU for your service, as well as all of our other vets here!!
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Re: College or not?

Post by piller »

I would advise against Pharmacy. College degree needed to apply, 4 years of 20 to 24 credits per semester of Pharmacy School. $250,000 average student debt upon graduation. Companies want new graduates who know only what they learned in school to be the Pharmacy Managers because they don't know enough to think about what they are required to do. Turnover rate in Pharmacy Manager positions is inching close to every 6 months. Pay rate in decreasing.
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Re: College or not?

Post by Lefty Dude »

Unless it is a full ride, tuition, housing, meals, etc. I would pass. It can get very expensive, rather quickly.
I know a family who's Son got all four years Tuition paid for, Went one year and dropped out. The other factors were to expensive. They did not want to go the Student Loan debt.
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Re: College or not?

Post by Ysabel Kid »

GunnyMack wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:27 pm As for college, yes BUT not a liberal school!!!
Unfortunately, almost all of the colleges and universities are quite liberal now. Even the service academies.

Rusty -

All good points above. I agree that if he can get good scholarship, it is still worth it to get a degree. It simply opens doors that are closed otherwise, no matter how good the person is. Anything to do with STEM subjects should provide for live-long employment at better than average wages. We simply churn out more degrees with the word "studies" attached to it - making them utterly worthless in real life - than we do anything related to the STEM subjects because those are real, and thus, hard.

Now, without a good scholarship, going into six-figure debt is not a great way to start one's adult life, regardless of the "investment factor". This has become a vicious drag on our entire economy, slowing down household formation, and spending on things that drive our market economy (and thus, provide good jobs and wages across the earnings spectrum). Hard to get married and start saving for your retirement, kids' college, etc, when you are still paying off your own college debts.

Something to think about.
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