Win 1873 SRC question

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kotkinjs1
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Win 1873 SRC question

Post by kotkinjs1 »

Hi all,
Just starting to learn about lever guns. Can I get some help IDing this 44-40 model 1873? I'm not sure of the SN but have photos of the receiver where the dust cover would go so I think there's a way to tell if it's a model 1, 2, or 3? Also, there's no caliber stamp on the bottom brass elevator so I've read that's a feature of the earlier models before other calibers were introduced? Also, are there supposed to be 'standard' rear sights for the carbine? I've seen lots of photos but they all seem to have a different rear sight....one with a flip up and ladder type. This seems to be a fixed rear sight. I've heard that the 1873s were the AR-15s of their day with a bazillion options so maybe this is just an option sight?
Thanks in advance!
m1873_receiver.jpg
m1873_elevator.jpg
m1873_sight.jpg
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Stevie
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Re: Win 1873 SRC question

Post by Stevie »

I'm no 1873 expert...but the carbine is a second or third model because it has a dust cover rail...the rear sight appears to be three leaf type modified into what's left on the gun.
M. M. Wright
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Re: Win 1873 SRC question

Post by M. M. Wright »

Replacement sights are available but are pricey. Like $250 for Italian made ones. See VTI's website. What caliber is she? I hope you plan to shoot it after making sure it's safe. Even really bad bores can be massaged into decent shooters. Relining is not out of the question either. If you're not sure of what to look for, have someone who knows 73s check the toggles to be sure it's safe before shooting. Getting an old one like this running is what I call fun!
M. M. Wright, Sheriff, Green county Arkansas (1860)
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kotkinjs1
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Re: Win 1873 SRC question

Post by kotkinjs1 »

Hi and thanks for the replies. It's a 44-40 and of course yes! I do plan to shoot her at least a little bit (after checking out). :lol: What use is a gun if she isn't shot? :lol:

I did just google and learn about the 2 and 3 leaf sights and you're right...it does seem to be one of those that are dovetailed into the barrel. It just seems that the flip up leafs are gone at least but it also might look like they were never there? I don't see anyplace where they would have fit in with the pin.

So if I want to get a dust cover, 2nd and 3rd types seem to be the same? Then I would need the stop, stop screw, and spring? I'm not sure what the spring's for.
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Malamute
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Re: Win 1873 SRC question

Post by Malamute »

M. M. Wright wrote: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:05 am Replacement sights are available but are pricey. Like $250 for Italian made ones. See VTI's website.
Just for future reference, thats about double what Ive seen them elsewhere. $125 seems common from recollection and a quick look-up.

http://www.gun-parts.com/winchesterrifle/

kotkinjs1 wrote: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:14 am I did just google and learn about the 2 and 3 leaf sights and you're right...it does seem to be one of those that are dovetailed into the barrel. It just seems that the flip up leafs are gone at least but it also might look like they were never there? I don't see anyplace where they would have fit in with the pin.

One of the leafs was part of the one thats still present. Your leaves may just be broken off and buried in rust. It looks like part of them may be there. They were relatively fragile and tended to get broken.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt-

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coyote nose
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Re: Win 1873 SRC question

Post by coyote nose »

3rd model. Also, I believe it is a rifle frame and not a carbine frame. I think all 1873 carbines had a reduced 'flare' where the barrel meets the receiver, even the 44-40s. On a rifle, the flare was only on the 32 and 38 calibers, but on the carbine it was all 3 calibers. These rifles rebuilt into carbines are pretty common (not done by the factory).
On edit: I guess I stand corrected, some SRCs in 44-40 did leave the factory with the non reduced frame. Need to get to my resources at my house later today and check it out.
"...for there is a cloud on my horizon...and its name is progress." E. Abbey, 1958
kotkinjs1
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Re: Win 1873 SRC question

Post by kotkinjs1 »

would they have installed a saddle ring on the receiver at that time also?
src 1.jpg
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coyote nose
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Re: Win 1873 SRC question

Post by coyote nose »

Ok according to Pirkle the stepped receiver (what I called flared) on the 44 WCFs were found from serials 105000/113000 to the end of production. I guess before that they were not stepped.
"...for there is a cloud on my horizon...and its name is progress." E. Abbey, 1958
kotkinjs1
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Re: Win 1873 SRC question

Post by kotkinjs1 »

This one's SN is in the 548,XXX range. I'm still not sure what you mean by stepped receiver -- can you post a comparative photo or two? I tried google image searching 1873 receivers but I couldn't figure out what you meant.
coyote nose
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Re: Win 1873 SRC question

Post by coyote nose »

Im not at my house for awhile (taking care of my 93 year old Mother). But your receiver is not stepped. Look on gunbroker at any 32-20 or 38-40 1873 and look closely at the top of receiver right where the barrel joins up, between the ejection port and the front of the receiver. On those calibers and some 44-40 carbines, the receiver will have a reduction in its height. Very obvious once you see it. At gunshows I amaze my friend by stating the caliber of 1873s before we get up close to read the barrel markings. If its straight like yours I exclaim '44-40' if its stepped I exclaim 32 or 38 but can tell the 32s by the skinny mag tube.
"...for there is a cloud on my horizon...and its name is progress." E. Abbey, 1958
coyote nose
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Re: Win 1873 SRC question

Post by coyote nose »

1873s-15.jpg
Made it home and was able to post this.
Top to bottom: 44-40, 44-40, 38-40 with stepped receiver, and another 44-40
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"...for there is a cloud on my horizon...and its name is progress." E. Abbey, 1958
kotkinjs1
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Re: Win 1873 SRC question

Post by kotkinjs1 »

Got it, cool , thanks!
So in reference to some posts above, if this has a non-stepped receiver but above the stated serial number range, but with a saddle ring, can this be a real SRC or a factory-modified long rifle?
coyote nose
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Re: Win 1873 SRC question

Post by coyote nose »

Trying to get to the bottom of this because I want to know too! Its kind of hard to figure out what Pirkle and also Madis mean, but by carefully reading the 2 books I have on it.....after about serial 113000 only shorter than "standard" 44 caliber guns (24" was standard on rifle and 20" was standard with carbines) utilized the stepped receiver. All guns in 32 and 38 utilized it. If your 44 carbine barrel is 20" then it is "standard" and should not have a stepped receiver. Your gun is correct. At least that is how I read what Madis in his book and Pirkle in his book state. Kind of weird Winchester would even bother making a different frame for this. Also, the bottom tang of the 1873 is easily removable to be interchanged with another 1873. The lower tangs used to be all over eBay. Thus when trying to determine originality you really need to look at every part to make sure it is 'correct' for the serial range the lower tang states. There were many minor variations with the parts as the gun was manufactured over the years. Then, a letter from Winchester would certainly lock in whether the gun (actually the lower tang with the serial) left the factory as a rifle or carbine. I sure hope I didnt cause concern for you, but I have seen doctored rifle frames turned into carbines. I have also seen 44 caliber carbines with 20" barrels with stepped receivers so who knows. Personally I think Winchester did what they wanted with what they had on hand. I think yours is fine.
"...for there is a cloud on my horizon...and its name is progress." E. Abbey, 1958
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