Savage 1899 .38-55 Takedown

MrMich87 · Post by **MrMich87** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:00 pm

I recently inherited a Savage Model 1899 H (I believe it's an H) .38-55 caliber. It is a takedown, has checkered stock, made in 1911 (per serial number) it had a scope on it which I imagine was drilled and placed after manufacture. It has a small triangle with an H inside of it on the front of the trigger guard and I was wondering if anyone knows anything about this gun/type of gun. I cannot find a lot of information online about it.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:10 pm

.

Welcome to the forum, pardner ! !

Savage 1899/99's can sometimes be difficult to decipher, sans pictures and/or a detailed description.

Some Savage 1899/99's have a model letter stamped into the outside of the front receiver wall next to the rotary magazine's axle (viewable after removing the forend), some were marked atop the front receiver ring (now covered by a scope mount base, in your case), and others yet unmarked as to model.

I have a 1914 Model 1899-H Lightweight Carbine in .303 Savage, and AFAIK all the 1899-H's were issued with a lightweight/fast-taper 20" barrel - mine is a solid-frame with a straight-grip buttstock, schnobble tipped forend & weighs only 6-1/2lbs. (at least a pound lighter than the M1899-A & M99-EG's I've had)

Soooooo, a couple of questions:

* How long is the barrel ?

* What type buttstock, and buttplate does it have ?

.

ollogger · Post by **ollogger** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:17 pm

Hi & welcome!
Not real sure on your gun, is it a pistol grip stock & checkered? then it could be a 1899 CD, I think the H is an inspector stamp
more info would make it easier, then some one here most likely would be a better judge than me
A photo would be the best way to describe the gun

ollogger

MrMich87 · Post by **MrMich87** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:32 pm

Thank you guys so much for responding. I appreciate it. I am away from the gun for the night due to work but I will post pictures and more information tomorrow. Sorry for the inconvenience. But I do appreciate the responses.

earlmck · Post by **earlmck** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:56 am

38/55 takedown? OMG -- that is kinda' like the holy grail of 1899s

. Too bad about the scope: those were some very costly holes as far as collector value in that nifty rifle. But how wonderful for a shooter with "old eyeball" syndrome like so many of us on the forum.

Yes, we've gotta' have some pics.

marlinman93 · Post by **marlinman93** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:04 am

earlmck wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:56 am 38/55 takedown? OMG -- that is kinda' like the holy grail of 1899s

Indeed the holy grail of Savage levers! Any Savage 1899 in .38-55 is highly desirable, but add to it the takedown and it gets over the top!

OldWin · Post by **OldWin** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:29 pm

Welcome to a great forum.
I don't know a lot about the Savages, other than they are very nice rifles.
The 38-55, however, is a wonderful cartridge. One of my favorites.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:14 pm

Very nice acquisition. No disrespect but are you sure it's a takedown? It will have a little metal thing a ma jig on the forend and upon pulling that out, it releases the forend, then you unscrew the barrel.

1911?

If what you have is the real deal 38-55 takedown Savage with deluxe checkered wood, I'm buying

I'll trade ya a very nice 1886, 1895, 1892....whatever you want...cash?

Mine is just a standard octagon barreled rifle.....shoots like a scoped bolt gun.----6

MrMich87 · Post by **MrMich87** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:18 pm

I'm not really sure how to post pictures on here. It doesn't seem to want to post them.

MrMich87 · Post by **MrMich87** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:25 pm

My gun has a checkered stock/foregrip. A small button/switch that allows the foregrip to come off. Not a pistol grip stock. Has a scope on it. 24" barrel. Has a 38-55 marking on the top of the barrel that is only visible once the barrel is removed. Shot counter on the left hand side. Sheard Marble front sight, no writing on the rear sight.

MrMich87 · Post by **MrMich87** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:26 pm

Completely round barrel, steel crescent shaped buttplate.

MrMich87 · Post by **MrMich87** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:28 pm

Small square hole/divot inside of foregrip that fits around clip on barrel to unscrew barrel.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:18 pm

MrMich...OK...we are getting somewhere.....your despcription on the takedown "button" is perfect....brass cartridge counter is standard in those days....rear sight stampings..as to make don't mean a lot as sights were almost always changed, especially on a hundred yea old gun............checkered wood without a pistol grip..well, maybe done at a later time..but...anything goes in the "old days" , especially if you had money........

You say ...."38-55 marking only visible after barrel is removed"......this confuses me a bit as the barrel is openly visible as to reading everything roll die marked along the entire top of the barrel...only the underneath area covered by the forend is well, covered. The caliber marking should be visible on the top of the barrel, close to the receiver.

I just took this pic of my 1899 Sav. in 38-55. Yours should be the same.---Jack. (Your pal)

MrMich87 · Post by **MrMich87** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:26 pm

Yes. The caliber marking should be mostly visibly excepty gun has a scope mounted on it.

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:42 pm

Welcome to a great forum and some darned fine people. As you have already seen we are always ready to welcome a new levergunner and help out too.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:43 pm

OK...yes, the mounted scope will obscure the marking. Beings that the receiver was d&t...(drilled and tapped) hurts a bit but not a whole lot, especially on a desirable rifle as yours. I'd be interested in hearing more.---Jack

earlmck · Post by **earlmck** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:40 pm

MrMich87 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:18 pm I'm not really sure how to post pictures on here. It doesn't seem to want to post them.

You'll need to size your pics down to no more than 1000 pixels in width or the site won't let you post them. At least that's my first guess as to why you couldn't get a picture to post.

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:15 am

MrMich: I hope you know a whole bunch of fellas here are ill with excitement, green with envy and really happy for you for having this wonderful Savage. For what it is worth, I upload my pix to FlickR and then copy and paste the URL to here.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:34 am

.

MrMich87:

If your rifle has a barrel 24" long, then it should be a Model 1899-B.

If your rifle has a barrel 20" long, then it should be a Model 1899-H

The Model's B & H were AFAIK the only straight-gripped leverguns of that era, except for the Model 1899 Saddle Gun, which was issued with a 22" barrel & a saddle ring attached to the LH side of the receiver.

.

MrMich87 · Post by **MrMich87** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:37 am

Here are some quick pictures I took of it. I will take better quality pictures of it once I'm home from work.

MrMich87 · Post by **MrMich87** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:39 am

Bill in Oregon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:15 am MrMich: I hope you know a whole bunch of fellas here are ill with excitement, green with envy and really happy for you for having this wonderful Savage. For what it is worth, I upload my pix to FlickR and then copy and paste the URL to here.

Thanks for the tip!

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:33 am

Mich,
Nice rifle....it's been refinished but nicely done and a long time ago.

I'd really like to see the caliber marking...just pop off the forend and unscrew the barrel...by hand..it's easy......take a pic of the caliber marking......also.....after taking off the barrel..........look at the roll die mark that shows the caliber...is it like mine in the picture above or is in in block numbers that may be uneven?....

.look underneath of the caliber marking to see if any previous lettering/numerical markings have been buffed/polished away........

..look very CLOSELY at the muzzle and the breech end to see if you see a circular line approximately 1/10" of an inch from the bore....this will indicate a relining of the barrel.

Also, check out the bore condition , especially the area just ahead of the chamber......is everything real bright and shiny? A few minor pits? This indicates bore age......it's hard to find a hundred year old gun with a perfect bore......this all leads to...........

I'm strongly suspect as to the original chambering of your gun.........in over 40 years of collecting/investing/shooting these guns I've never seen an 1899 in 38-55 in the configuration of your gun.

Hey! You must be OK......looks like your wearing military boots in the Yasable Kid fashion.

----6

MrMich87 · Post by **MrMich87** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:41 pm

Ok. Here are some more detailed pictures. I knew up inheriting it that it had been refinished. My uncle said he had done it. It belonged to my great grandfather who was a veterinarian and back in the 30's (depression times) he did some work for a farmer on some of his animals and the farmer had no money to compensate so he gave him the gun instead. My uncle also said he believes it to be a Canadian gun.

MrMich87 · Post by **MrMich87** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:02 pm

Here is one more.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:21 pm

.

The config of your Savage makes it definitely a Model 1899-A Rifle, with the standard straight-grip buttstock/crescent buttplate ( a PG buttstock was optional).

The checkering is Not by Savage, so aftermarket.

.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:19 pm

Great pictures Mich......I agree with Pete that the checkering is non-factory, along with the refinish and of course, the d&t for the scope

The caliber stamping sure looks "right" to me, meaning it looks factory,

When you say the serial number dates to 1911.......that's when I get confused but....it could have been a receiver sitting around for some time...as according to my source that I had to consult in says takedowns did not come out of the factory until 1920 and was catalogued as a Model B.....which is a different "B" from earlier ..which meant the gun was a 26" octagoned barrel rifle such as the one I pictured.

Once again, the "old days" were just that, meaning most " anything goes".

This is a case where a factory letter is required. I had several done some years ago but I can't remember who it was I contacted........probable available with a search.

Either way, still a cool rifle in a hard hitting caliber. If you ever are looking to move it, I'm interested.-----6

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:47 am

.

Six, FYI the 1907 Savage catalog lists the Model 1899 as available as either a solid or takedown frame, available in .25-35, .30-30, .303 Savage, .32/40 & .38-55.

The catalog indicated the barrels were offered in round or (optionally) octagon configs, but the takedown versions were available in round bbl only at that time - MSRP for a takedown was $25 (dontcha luv it ?

).

IDK when octagon barrels became available in a takedown frame, but if the OP's rifle hasn't been re-barreled, and the (unknown) SN dates to 1911, then the octagon/takedown option might have become available sometime between 1907 & 1911.

.

MrMich87 · Post by **MrMich87** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:30 am

Would the SN# help? Or not?

hayabusa · Post by **hayabusa** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:09 am

Yes it sure would help date it.

Welcome to the forum.

Post by **AmBraCol** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:14 am

MrMich87 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:30 am Would the SN# help? Or not?

The serial number would help. You can post it as "12345xx" with the "xx" replacing the last two digits for privacy's sake if you like.

MrMich87 · Post by **MrMich87** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:41 am

Ok, there is one serial number on the end of the foregrip that goes towards the chamber, and one directly in front of the trigger guard/loop handle and it's 6 numbers, 11724x. And they both match.

marlinman93 · Post by **marlinman93** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:49 am

I'd like to see what the crown looks like too? The 25" barrel is an oddball length, and it might have been longer once.

MrMich87 · Post by **MrMich87** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:51 am

The serial number is also stamped inside the steel of the butt plate and the wood of the stock/butt end. Along with the #43 and a *

MrMich87 · Post by **MrMich87** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:52 am

marlinman93 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:49 am I'd like to see what the crown looks like too? The 25" barrel is an oddball length, and it might have been longer once.

With the barrel removed, end to end it is 26". End to very end.

MrMich87 · Post by **MrMich87** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:13 pm

Sixgun wrote: ↑Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:19 pm Great pictures Mich......I agree with Pete that the checkering is non-factory, along with the refinish and of course, the d&t for the scope

The caliber stamping sure looks "right" to me, meaning it looks factory,

When you say the serial number dates to 1911.......that's when I get confused but....it could have been a receiver sitting around for some time...as according to my source that I had to consult in says takedowns did not come out of the factory until 1920 and was catalogued as a Model B.....which is a different "B" from earlier ..which meant the gun was a 26" octagoned barrel rifle such as the one I pictured.

Once again, the "old days" were just that, meaning most " anything goes".

This is a case where a factory letter is required. I had several done some years ago but I can't remember who it was I contacted........probable available with a search.

Either way, still a cool rifle in a hard hitting caliber. If you ever are looking to move it, I'm interested.-----6

I don't plan on selling it at the moment, sorry. I thank you for all of your information and diligence though. I wouldn't even know where to start as far as a value to it.

MrMich87 · Post by **MrMich87** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:58 pm

A gun loving friend of mine sent me this picture, with information on Savage firearms. I have read over it several times, let me know what you guys make of it.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:36 pm

MrMich87 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:41 am Ok, there is one serial number on the end of the foregrip that goes towards the chamber, and one directly in front of the trigger guard/loop handle and it's 6 numbers, 11724x. And they both match.

The SN confirms that your rifle was one of the 8,000 Model 1899's that Savage made in 1911

Your reference confirms that you have a Model 1899-B - Interesting.

What's interesting is that your reference states that the takedown feature was introduced in 1909, contradicting Savage's 1907 catalog - Hmmmmm, "maybe" the 1909 reference refers to the intro of takedown for the M1899-A only. (IDK)

Doubly interesting is that AFAIK, prior to the 1925 introduction of model letters (A, B, C, D, E, F, G & H), the Savage leverguns were just referred to by Savage as Model 1899's, or catchy names (like: "Repeating Rifle Model 1899", or "Repeating Military Rifle Model 1899", or "Repeating Military Carbine Model 1899 or "Model 1899 Featherweight").

.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:58 pm

Geeze...we are getting into a pizzing match on a gun that no one really knows what it is.......as "the proof in the pudding" is the serial number of which I have yet to see. On guns that have been refinished and buffed it's easy to think the number "7" is in actuality a "1". Or a "8" is made out to be a "3" or vise virsa..."9"'s can be 7's

For the most part, my initial "assumption" was based on actual experience as I've never seen...or heard of..... a 38-55 takedown. Like Winchesters and Marlins, the 38-55 was pretty much dead after WW1, except for parts clean up.

I've seen 1886 Winchesters in 33 wcf made in 1897 when the caliber did not come out for a few more years....either the receiver sat in the factory for some time or it was a weirdo 40-82 that someone sent back to be rechambered into a "modern" caliber.

This is when I resort to printed material from reputable authors or publications. in the Winchester world how much better can you get than the Madis book...in Marlins, it's the Brophy book.....in Savages, it the Douglas P. Murray book?

Nothing personal Pete as I'm sure you are going by your resources, which you assume to be correct...as I do with the Murray book.

Below are pictures from the Murray book and the newest edition of the Blue Book...Both of these corroborate the initial date of takedowns as being 1920.......Let's see a detailed picture of the serial number Mr. Mich.

Thank you Mr Mich on your response to my offer of buying your fine gun. The offer is always there......
In the world of antique guns, sometimes printed material is not always correct as in those days, NOTHING was wasted in the factory...even screws were saved and used in one way or another.-----6

Pete....you still "da man"

From the Murray book

The newest edition of the Blue Book

MrMich87 · Post by **MrMich87** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:20 pm

There are several spots on the gun with a SN, but I didn't think you were supposed to reveal the entire number..?...? Sorry, I'm very new to this.

Hairtrigger · Post by **Hairtrigger** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:01 pm

Some that are paranoid will not reveal the serial number.
If you buy a gun in an alley from a guy that starts the conversation with “pssssssst...you wanna buy a gun?” You may not want anyone to see the serial number

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:09 pm

MrMich87 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:20 pm There are several spots on the gun with a SN, but I didn't think you were supposed to reveal the entire number..?...? Sorry, I'm very new to this.

Mr!ich,
The reason some people omit the last couple of numbers as in 1234XX is because some azzhole, upon seeing the number will say, "Hey! That was my grandpappy's gun that got stolen in 1947". The world is full of azzholes, con artists, and outright liars. No need to worry as possession is 9/10's of the law and as you know the history of your gun...you say you inherited it.......there is nothing to worry about.

It's another story is you bought a $10,000 gun from a guy with a long trench coat in some seedy bar for $200 after reading news reports of a gun collection being stolen........ Problem.
Your gun is a low dollar gun.......not meaning the gun is worthless as most guns are low dollar, meaning they are worth under a grand or two. My personal belief is that many guns from the 1870-1940 period have been stolen at one time or another.

It's another story for someone to say, "hey, my gramdpappys gun was worth $200 and I'm going to sue". Let em try....as anyone who tries to "take back" ANY material item from an individual who has had that item for any decent length of time will have his hands full, especially if the current owner bought that item in good faith and has maintained possession of it for many years.

Your good....take a nice sharp picture.----6

MrMich87 · Post by **MrMich87** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:42 pm

Ok, here goes...

MrMich87 · Post by **MrMich87** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:58 pm

With scope removed

ollogger · Post by **ollogger** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:20 pm

All matching SN on the gun is a good thing to go along with a rare old TD in 38-55
Savage as you see can confuse even some of the experts, I had a 1899 B TD that was not made in the year it SN too ??
Another rare one is the 1895 Savage made by Marlin, oooh do I wish I still had that one!!!

ollogger

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:21 pm

Sixgun wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:58 pm
Nothing personal Pete as I'm sure you are going by your resources, which you assume to be correct...as I do with the Murray book.

Pete....you still "da man"

Thanks, Six !

* IMO, the SN shown in the pics above appears to be correct & unaltered by refinishing.

* FWIW, These are the reference sources I use for Savage/Stevens:

The 1908 & 19109 Savage catalogs

http://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/his ... e-arms.php

and

.

MrMich87 · Post by **MrMich87** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:08 pm

ollogger wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:20 pm All matching SN on the gun is a good thing to go along with a rare old TD in 38-55
Savage as you see can confuse even some of the experts, I had a 1899 B TD that was not made in the year it SN too ??
Another rare one is the 1895 Savage made by Marlin, oooh do I wish I still had that one!!!

ollogger

Thanks for the response! After lots of reading, yes, the 1895 manufactured by Marlin would be nice. Also be nice to have an engraved 1899 in excellent condition!

OldWin · Post by **OldWin** » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:30 am

I wouldn't worry about the drill and tap, or refinish, one bit. It's a family rifle, so cool points go way up. It's not like you paid 3k for it and then found out stuff had been done to it.
For me, if they are too minty, I don't enjoy them as much cause you gotta worry about every little mark.
If it has a good bore, it's the perfect setup. I'd leave the scope off, put plug screws in the holes, and put a tang sight on it.
Like I posted earlier, the 38-55 is a great cartridge. My favorite medium action number.

MrMich87 · Post by **MrMich87** » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:35 am

OldWin wrote: ↑Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:30 am I wouldn't worry about the drill and tap, or refinish, one bit. It's a family rifle, so cool points go way up. It's not like you paid 3k for it and then found out stuff had been done to it.
For me, if they are too minty, I don't enjoy them as much cause you gotta worry about every little mark.
If it has a good bore, it's the perfect setup. I'd leave the scope off, put plug screws in the holes, and put a tang sight on it.
Like I posted earlier, the 38-55 is a great cartridge. My favorite medium action number.

Thanks, I definitely agree, 100%. I never intended to sell it, I simply wanted as much information on this cool old rifle as I could possibly get. Everyone here has been amazing, I really appreciate all the knowledge and info and time. I'm new to this, but I am already enjoying it a lot. You say to put a rear tang sight on it? Is there a certain style you would recommend or brand?

OldWin · Post by **OldWin** » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:56 am

As I posted earlier, I don't know a lot about Savages, but I think the Lyman No. 1A is the sight you'd want.
Others here will know more, I'm more of a Winchester guy.

I think that setup will look really great on that old rifle. It will also shoot really well. Then put a Marbles flip-down open on the barrel dovetail zeroed at 50 yds.
I have a couple Winchester carbines set up in this manner and it works really well.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:40 pm

I just came back from a 2,000 table gunshow and I'm beat.......LOTS of cool everything except the strollers...one lady had a double stroller with twins............well, you guys know the rest of the bs

So....I come home and a phone call is waiting for me to go down and look at a load of antique Colts, Winchesters, Lugers....etc....I'm too tired....but I'll be better after a couple of Yuenglings.

I decide to check in here about this post and I'll tell ya, I just don't know. There's no doubt the gun has the correct matching serial numbers and are original. The barrel and the markings are original. So...who do we believe..my sources or Petes sources? They both are sure legit. Thinking.....My guess it was "in house" gun.

A factory letter will clarify that and Mr. Mich...it is WELL in your favor to obtain one. Even in the refinished condition and d&t, it is still a 12-18 c note gun. I don't have the info handy but I'll check into it when I come home...you may be able to get it yourself by googling "factory letter for 1899 Savage".

I realize you don't want to sell it but it's nice t know the value when you do decide. Guns like this at auction can go into crazy money....if described and authenticated well.----6