Rossi 1892 malfunction

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jhrosier
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Rossi 1892 malfunction

#1 Post by jhrosier » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:13 am

I bought an older ( pre bolt safety Rossi 357/38spl model 1892 carbine a few weeks ago.
It had fired about 50 rounds with no problems. The load was a 140 gr TC cast bullet that I have used without problems in a bunch of other guns.
My only complaint with the gun is that it launches the empties way too vigorously.
I tried to keep the empties closer by inverting the gun and ejecting the cases straight down to the bench.
After the first shot, the breech block would stop about an eighth inch short and the locking lungs were blocked from seating.
The gun was being single loaded directly into the chamber. No amount of shaking would persuade the bolt to close and no tools were to hand to strip the gun.
When I got home, I first tried tapping on the bolt from the top while putting pressure on the lever. After a couple of minutes of tapping and fussing with the lever, it closed and now seems to work OK.
I can only guess that something got out of place from opening the gun while it was inverted and that tapping on the top of the bolt with a piece of pine 2x2 somehow jostled the parts back in to position.
I've never seen anything like this before.

Anyone know what might have happened here?

Jack

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Pete44ru
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Re: Rossi 1892 malfunction

#2 Post by Pete44ru » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:05 am

.

I'm sure that Steve ( www.stevesgunz.com )will be along soo to add to (or correct) my comments, but IME the bolt will sometimes stop in mid-cycle because the lever link pin through the bolt is either loose or not fully seated toward the right, and so will hang up on internal receiver nooks, stopping the bolt in it's tracks (BT, DT).

While I had no over-strenuous ejection from both of my Rossi's (a .357 & a .45 Colt), IIRC the spring the powers the ejector could stand to lose a bit of length to correct the issue - but (personally) I'd try/start with polishing the spring before I'd cut it.

BTW, should you want to peep it, the Williams 5D or FP receiver sight meant for the angle-eject Winchester 94 (5D-94SE/FP-94SE) will work just fine, not requiring a tallet front sight blade - once (one) 6-48 hole gets themselves D/T'd in the top/rear of each receiver sidewall just ahead of the locking lug recess'.


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IF IN THESE TYMES OF JEOPARDY,
MORTAL PERIL INVADES THY THOUGHT,
TAKE UP THIS TRVSTY PIECE,
TRVST IN THY GOD, AND FEAR THEE NAUGHT.

(The avatar is me, in 1948 ! )

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Pete44ru
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Re: Rossi 1892 malfunction

#3 Post by Pete44ru » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:06 am

.

oops :oops:


.
IF IN THESE TYMES OF JEOPARDY,
MORTAL PERIL INVADES THY THOUGHT,
TAKE UP THIS TRVSTY PIECE,
TRVST IN THY GOD, AND FEAR THEE NAUGHT.

(The avatar is me, in 1948 ! )

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OldWin
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Re: Rossi 1892 malfunction

#4 Post by OldWin » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:41 am

The ejector springs are WAY too stiff in those rifles. I have an older one and mine was too. It makes the last bit of lockup very stiff due to compressing the ejector.
A call to Steve and a lighter spring will remedy most of the issue.
While mine closed hard, it did close. Not sure what your issue is. I will say, when I removed my ejector, the finish on the shaft portion was terrible. Maybe this is causing yours to bind?
"Oh Bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered another round.

jhrosier
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Re: Rossi 1892 malfunction

#5 Post by jhrosier » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:49 am

Pete44ru wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:05 am
....., but IME the bolt will sometimes stop in mid-cycle because the lever link pin through the bolt is either loose or not fully seated toward the right, and so will hang up on internal receiver nooks, stopping the bolt in it's tracks (BT, DT).....

The bolt is moving freely from all the way open to almost closed. The locking lugs appear to be rising too soon and hitting the bottom of the bolt.

I can't understand how the locking lugs could rise too soon, or is it that the bolt is somehow closing too late?

Now that it seems to be working for the moment, I'm going to try to get out to the range and try it again.

Jack

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Re: Rossi 1892 malfunction

#6 Post by Pete44ru » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:59 am

jhrosier wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:49 am
Pete44ru wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:05 am
....., but IME the bolt will sometimes stop in mid-cycle because the lever link pin through the bolt is either loose or not fully seated toward the right, and so will hang up on internal receiver nooks, stopping the bolt in it's tracks (BT, DT).....

The bolt is moving freely from all the way open to almost closed. The locking lugs appear to be rising too soon and hitting the bottom of the bolt.

I can't understand how the locking lugs could rise too soon, or is it that the bolt is somehow closing too late?

Jack, IMO, the locking lugs are most likely not "rising too soon" - when the lever link pin on my rifle shifted a (very little) bit to the left, it stopped the bolt travel at the point of almost full closure (like 1/4"-3/8" from fully closed).

I would suggest removing the lever pin stop screw (the largest screw head on the LH receiver sidewall), positioning the lever/bolt until the link pin is aligned with the hole, and push the link pin as deep as you can towards the RH receiver sidewall.

I was surprised at how little link pin movement stopped the bolt from closing fully.



.
IF IN THESE TYMES OF JEOPARDY,
MORTAL PERIL INVADES THY THOUGHT,
TAKE UP THIS TRVSTY PIECE,
TRVST IN THY GOD, AND FEAR THEE NAUGHT.

(The avatar is me, in 1948 ! )

.

jhrosier
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Re: Rossi 1892 malfunction

#7 Post by jhrosier » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:08 am

Pete44ru wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:59 am
......I was surprised at how little link pin movement stopped the bolt from closing fully.
Thanks,
That all seems to make sense now.

Jack

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Re: Rossi 1892 malfunction

#8 Post by Lefty Dude » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:48 pm

A wolff spring kit will make a world of difference.
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Uberti 73/44-40 carbine, Rossi 92/44-40,
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Re: Rossi 1892 malfunction

#9 Post by jhrosier » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:42 pm

Oh My!

I got it to the range and it no longer puts a dent in the primer....

Looks like maybe a broken firing pin. I have to find the take down instructions and most likely, a source for a new firing pin.

Anybody know who carries parts for the Rossi 1892?

Jack

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Re: Rossi 1892 malfunction

#10 Post by Tonto » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:00 pm

The '92, like the '86 has a split bolt face.....the ejector pushes in to meet the bolt face just at the very last part the of lifting the lever. If the ejector has a slightly bent arm, a broken or bent pin that holds it all together, or possibly a very tight fit with the ejector to the bolt face, or maybe some kind of debris in the works, it will be hard to push that last little bit of pressure.

Drop the lever all the way and get a screwdriver or something you can push with..........and while holding the tip of the screwdriver against the ejector, push it to see if you match it up evenly to the bolt face. If it's gritty or very hard to push, your going to have to take the bolt out of the gun and give it a look-see with the recommendation of changing the spring and polishing all areas that ride against each other.

Polishing the area on the front side of the ejector will make it easier to "glide" back in place while closing the bolt.

A bent, misaligned, or unevenly ground extractor will do the same at the "last bit of pressure" while closing the lever. If it's that, try another brand of brass or take the ejector out and polish the angle part that glides over the rim.

I'm assuming a Rossi 92 is pretty much like a Winchester '92. I've never worked on a Rossi but could if I had my hands on it.
Rossi is not known for fine fitting of parts, mostly relying on use to polish up the parts.

Good luck.......and by the way Jack......I get many compliments on that fancy, dancey, cool, Lyman tang sight that you sold me a few years back. I love it...it's on my favorite and most accurate 1886 in 40-65.-------"the other Jack" :D

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Re: Rossi 1892 malfunction

#11 Post by Griff » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:55 pm

jhrosier wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:42 pm
Oh My!
I got it to the range and it no longer puts a dent in the primer....
Looks like maybe a broken firing pin. I have to find the take down instructions and most likely, a source for a new firing pin.
Anybody know who carries parts for the Rossi 1892?
Jack
Steve's Gunz carries some Rossi parts. One part that may be the cause of your initial closure issue is the collar that sits on the shaft of the ejector keeping it aligned. If it comes out of its portion of the bolt, the ejector can rotate and prevent the bolt from closing that last ¼". A take down is in order.
Griff,
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Re: Rossi 1892 malfunction

#12 Post by Pete44ru » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:47 am

Griff wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:55 pm
A take down is in order.

If/when you do, do yourself (and your blood pressure) a huge favor, and re-assemble it with an empty cartridge case seated in the boltface. (BT, DT - no TS) :mrgreen:


.
IF IN THESE TYMES OF JEOPARDY,
MORTAL PERIL INVADES THY THOUGHT,
TAKE UP THIS TRVSTY PIECE,
TRVST IN THY GOD, AND FEAR THEE NAUGHT.

(The avatar is me, in 1948 ! )

.

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mikld
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Re: Rossi 1892 malfunction

#13 Post by mikld » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:16 am

I ran across this site the other day; https://jack-first-gun-parts.myshopify. ... ever-rifle
Mike
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Nate Kiowa Jones
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Re: Rossi 1892 malfunction

#14 Post by Nate Kiowa Jones » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:14 am

Pete44ru wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:59 am
jhrosier wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:49 am
Pete44ru wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:05 am
....., but IME the bolt will sometimes stop in mid-cycle because the lever link pin through the bolt is either loose or not fully seated toward the right, and so will hang up on internal receiver nooks, stopping the bolt in it's tracks (BT, DT).....

The bolt is moving freely from all the way open to almost closed. The locking lugs appear to be rising too soon and hitting the bottom of the bolt.

I can't understand how the locking lugs could rise too soon, or is it that the bolt is somehow closing too late?

Jack, IMO, the locking lugs are most likely not "rising too soon" - when the lever link pin on my rifle shifted a (very little) bit to the left, it stopped the bolt travel at the point of almost full closure (like 1/4"-3/8" from fully closed).

I would suggest removing the lever pin stop screw (the largest screw head on the LH receiver sidewall), positioning the lever/bolt until the link pin is aligned with the hole, and push the link pin as deep as you can towards the RH receiver sidewall.

I was surprised at how little link pin movement stopped the bolt from closing fully.



.
Ever once in awhile I'll put one back together and that pin drags or binds even when it is driven over fully. What I do is I'll open the action and as I close it I'll whack the bolt on the sides with a wooden mallet. This tend to center the pin better.
As for not fully closing, if this is a late model I am seeing more and more of them with that plug screw for that pin is rubbing on the bolt. Seems Rossi can't drill the hole in the reciever without going too deep. Most you can just remove some metal from the tip of that plug screw. Or better, make a shim/washer from a single coil off an appropriate size coil spring. now the plug screw even looks correct, not too deep
Steve Young aka Nate Kiowa Jones Sass# 6765

Steve's Guns aka "Rossi 92 Specialists"
205 Antler lane
Lampasas, Texas 76550


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Email; steve@stevesgunz.com

Tel: 512-564-1015

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Re: Rossi 1892 malfunction

#15 Post by AJMD429 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:53 am

What Nate Kiowa Jones said is what I had to do.
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A sharp pain where I sit...

#16 Post by jhrosier » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:22 pm

I bought the firing pin from Jack First, quite a while ago, and finally got around to installing it today.
A couple hours later, it was done, and just in the nick of time, as I had completely run out of bad words.

The only thing that I could find that was small enough to retain the hammer spring was a small paperclip.
It folded up neatly and retreated completely inside of the mainspring as soon as was inconvenient.
I have put springs back on to struts before, but that was not how I had planned on spending a half hour. (the trick was finding a pin small enough to go through the tiny hole and still strong enough to not fold up like a dirty sock.) You can say what you will about Brownells; their 1/32" pin punches are pretty darn stout. :D

The trick with using a fired case to hold the ejector in place was almost but not quite enough leverage. After fighting with the cursed thing for most of an hour, I did two things that (finally ) worked. First I assembled all of the little bits into the bolt and put the lever pin in to keep it all together. The ejecter spring was just way too heavy to hold in place while inserting the bolt. I drilled a small hole (3/16" or so) crosswise through the case and used a pin punch for more leverage. The darn thing went together on the first try, just like in the factories in the big city. Afterwards, I lined up the lever pin with the hole in the receiver and backed it out untill I got the lever in place.

If I'm lucky, I won't ever need to do this again. :lol:

Jack

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