Lever-Action Accuracy

Welcome to the Leverguns.Com Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here ... politely.

Moderators: AmBraCol, Hobie

Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.

Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Post Reply
new pig hunter
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1362
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:11 pm
Location: SoCal

Lever-Action Accuracy

Post by new pig hunter »

I just received the newest (FEB 2018) issue of American Rifleman magazine.
Page 60, "Get A Grip on Lever-Action Accuracy"
Chuck 100 yd
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6972
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:52 pm
Location: Ridgefield WA. USA

Re: Lever-Action Accuracy

Post by Chuck 100 yd »

Cool , I will be looking forward to that one. My copy has not arrived yet.
new pig hunter
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1362
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:11 pm
Location: SoCal

Re: Lever-Action Accuracy

Post by new pig hunter »

I decided to see if the digital version has been posted .... It Has !!
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/nra/ar_ ... ex.php#/64
User avatar
Griff
Posting leader...
Posts: 20803
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: OH MY GAWD they installed a STOP light!!!

Re: Lever-Action Accuracy

Post by Griff »

I guess he hasn't read Paco's article on accurizing the lever action?
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93

There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
User avatar
crs
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3153
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:32 am
Location: Republic of Texas
Contact:

Re: Lever-Action Accuracy

Post by crs »

What Griff said + 1.

Over the years, there have been many articles about lever action accuracy (and all actions , I bet), and I have one or two torn from magazines and books.

Bottom line? All my lever actions shoot well enough to kill the game they were meant to hunt and then some. Maybe I have just been lucky.
There have been rumors of some lever guns being used on prairie dogs even. :shock:
CRS, NRA Benefactor Member, TSRA, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center
Android Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/
User avatar
J Miller
Member Emeritus
Posts: 14880
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
Location: Not in IL no more ... :)

Re: Lever-Action Accuracy

Post by J Miller »

I have owned many lever action rifles. All but two of them shot / shoot good enough to shoot better than I am capable of. The two that did not were not fixable without major surgery.

I've read most of the articles about accurizing lever guns and never saw the need to do those things to them. Honestly I only read the first parts of this one and the comments of 2" +/- groups from their test rifles is my average from all the lever guns (except the two already mentioned) I've owned.

Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts ;) .***
User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 31932
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: Lever-Action Accuracy

Post by AJMD429 »

I've seen posts of 5-shot cloverleafs at 100 yards from handloaded 444 Marlins, and similar group size with medium-bores. Unsure how many bad groups were left off before posting the good ones though.

Rotary-bolt BLR's shooting 243 Win can be superbly accurate of course, but the occasional regular 'levergun cartridge' gun will occasionally do 1 MOA or thereabouts, supposedly.

Not sure that level of accuracy is practical or necessary other than for bench-shooting, snipers, or prarie-dogs....

Still, I have Marlin XLR's in 30-30, 35 Rem, and 444 Marlin that I'd like to see the potential of someday if I get time.

My Ruger 96/22Mag I rebarreled in 17 HMR can do dime-size out to 75 yards with the right ammo.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
piller
Posting leader...
Posts: 15188
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:49 pm
Location: South of Dallas

Re: Lever-Action Accuracy

Post by piller »

Most of the hunting I have done has been at 100 yards or less. My longest shot was around 200 yards. A 2 inch group at 100 yards would still be in the kill zone at 200 yards on elk size animals. I haven't seen many people who can shoot better than what their rifle is capable of doing. There is no real point in my admittedly limited experience in spending lots of money and time to turn a rifle into a tack driver when it will not be used for ranges beyond 200 yards or on anything smaller than a coyote. Just my opinion.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
User avatar
Ji in Hawaii
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1980
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:05 pm
Location: Moku Manu, Hawai'i

Re: Lever-Action Accuracy

Post by Ji in Hawaii »

I love reading any article on leverguns but as far as accuracy improvements to them the only things I do are add a receiver or tang peep sight, and customize handloads for best accuracy. I did change a lower tang hammer and spring on my 94AE Trapper over a decade ago but this was not so much for accuracy but more to get a proper halfcock and also eliminate the tang safety. It came with a decent 4 lb. trigger but the new/old leaf string lower did drop the pull to a silky smooth 2.5 pounds which I consider a fringe benefit. I never target shoot except to sight in prior to a hunt. All my leverguns are hunting guns and have hunting accuracy that I am confident with out to 150 yards. I challenge myself not in hitting an animal 300+ yards away but instead the challenge is stalking up to within a 150 yards if not much closer to game. I have a couple scoped rifles but nowadays prefer grabbing an open sighted gun even with my declining eye sight. I guess what helps is my attitude change from my youth where bringing home meat was the main goal. Now I go out to enjoy the solitude and fresh air with filling the game bag being a bonus. What helps too is that all the game (deer pig, goat) I hunt now is open season year around so no pressure to fill a tag in a limited amount of time. When I visit my old stomping grounds on Maui again I know too that all my hunting buddies there have a freezer filled with venison, and I am not too proud to accept their generosity when offered some after a hunt. They hunt once a week regularly like I did when I lived there over 10 years ago. Sorry for the long ramble. :roll:
Illegitimus Non Carborundum
Akā, ʻo ka poʻe hilinaʻi aku iā Iēhova, e ulu hou nō ko lākou ikaika;
E piʻi ʻēheu aku nō lākou i luna, e like me nā ʻaito;
E holo nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e māloʻeloʻe,
E hele mua nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e maʻule.
`Isaia 40:31
User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 31932
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: Lever-Action Accuracy

Post by AJMD429 »

piller wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:07 amI haven't seen many people who can shoot better than what their rifle is capable of doing.
Yep. Unless I'm using a rest, off a bench, I'm sure ALL my rifles add less error to the intended impact than I do. So for off-the-bench target-shooting, or prarie-dogs, or if I had to be drafted as a 'sniper', I'd absolutely want sub-MOA accuracy, but for hunting, 2 MOA is good enough for the hunting I do.

However, as a 'challenge' for those of us with OCD, or just for the fun of it, I also think it is interesting to see what the maximum accuracy is that you can get from a particular firearm.

It also can build confidence to know the exact limits your particular gun and load is capable of, even if you never push those limits with your normal activities.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
User avatar
Griff
Posting leader...
Posts: 20803
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: OH MY GAWD they installed a STOP light!!!

Re: Lever-Action Accuracy

Post by Griff »

AJMD429 wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:52 pm
piller wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:07 amI haven't seen many people who can shoot better than what their rifle is capable of doing.
...It also can build confidence to know the exact limits your particular gun and load is capable of, even if you never push those limits with your normal activities.
Exactly.
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93

There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
piller
Posting leader...
Posts: 15188
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:49 pm
Location: South of Dallas

Re: Lever-Action Accuracy

Post by piller »

I am not trying to say that it osn't a good idea to be accurate, or to have an accurate rifle. I sanded out the barrel channel on my .270 caliber Remington 700 and fiberglass bedded it using Bondo because it was shooting 6 inch groups after hunting when I was caught in an unpredicted rainstorm. The cheap homemade trick brought it to the best groups it ever had. 130 grain Core-Lokt still give 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards in that rifle. I am just not sure that doing anything expensive and time consuming is worthwhile on a rifle in which I would not expext to shoot beyond 200 yards when it already gives 2 inches or less from the bench with any factory ammunition I use. I handload and do enjoy getting better accuracy with a chosen bullet for hunting when I can. Different powders and velocity changes can make a lot of difference in accuracy for me. When handloading can get me to consistent groups under 1.5 inches at 100 yards, I don't hunt enough places where I need better than that. My .270 gave that 1/2 inch group accuracy on the first 3 shots after I glass bedded it, and it still gives that accuracy. It was a bonus for me when I was just trying to fix an issue with the wood swelling and causing a problem. It was a cheap fix.

My Marlin 336 gives 2 inch accuracy at 100 yards, and the one which PillHer appropriated and had cut down for her has always given 1 inch or smaller 100 yard groups. My 336 was purchased to replace the one which is now PillHer's. I just don't see a big need to spend money to make my 336 more accurate. If I need to go beyond 100 yards consistently on a hunt, then I will use a different rifle.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
User avatar
Canuck Bob
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1830
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:57 am
Location: Calgary, Canada

Re: Lever-Action Accuracy

Post by Canuck Bob »

Interesting thread. My 444 really settled down to 1.5 inch consistent groups with handloads. The 243 BLR shot well but had a mediocre trigger that kinda reduced consistency. The Winoku 92 32-20 shoots ok at 50 paces, 2 inches, but it has the buckhorn barrel sight and my vision hasn't helped. I'm still learning my 32 Special 94. It shoots 2-2.5 inches at a 100 yards. In analysis installing optics was a game changer on my 444. I pulled them quick because I treasured how nicely an iron sighted lever hand carries. The issue of scoping still plagues me with levers. I am trying to solve my vision limits to continue to shoot peeps well. Barrel sights are history for accurate shooting.

It seems sensible for me that any tuning of a leveraction not altering its primary purpose as a hunting rifle is business as usual. Any lever shooting 2-3 MOA at 200 yards is a shooter, good ammo, tuned rifle, and a good rifleman are required to be repeatable.

My plan is to transition to targeting accuracy. To load ammo to the level of a beginner long range reloader. I believe rimmed ammo suffers accuracy wise because there is no shoulder wedging centering the shoulder and bullet upon primer strike. Also the Win 90 series have these sloppy chambers and powerful ejector springs.

The good rifle needs bedding security. We never speak much of bedding here but it seems most agree that fixing a sour bolt that sends fliers is to bed and free float first. Then move on to handloading and triggers.

Next is the trigger, my eye opener was youtube. I use CZ527s with the double set triggers. They are my precision shooters. I poo-pooed these triggers as Euro nonsense along with the hog back stock. A bunch of shooters have tested the effect of a +/- 3 lb. standard trigger against the +/- 2 lb. set trigger with the same rifle and often by good shooters with tuned reloads or guys like me with quality factory fodder. Lighter triggers seems to always win in group shooting.

Do folks ever say to forum questions don't upgrade your 10/22 or stock AR, stock mediocre shooters at best. You should upgrade your gun to bolt action for real tack driving. With a dedicated tuning they are almost benchrest accurate, wow.

Edit: Editted my first draft to eliminate a lot of nonsense. Sorry for that.
User avatar
Canuck Bob
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1830
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:57 am
Location: Calgary, Canada

Re: Lever-Action Accuracy

Post by Canuck Bob »

A list of accurizing articles for levers. Accurizing the Factory Rifle by McPherson is supposed to be the best but out of print and too pricey for me.

https://www.shootersforum.com/leverguns ... ction.html
User avatar
marlinman93
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6432
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
Location: Oregon

Re: Lever-Action Accuracy

Post by marlinman93 »

Nothing new that I saw in the article. Maybe they think the next generation hasn't been exposed to the same old same old. Reads more like a Marlin advertising flyer to me. And I like Marlins.
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
User avatar
Old Savage
Posting leader...
Posts: 16688
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:43 pm
Location: Southern California

Re: Lever-Action Accuracy

Post by Old Savage »

Marlin 444, 45-70, 35 Rem and 30-30, Win, 30-30/25/3, 444, BLR .243, Savage 300 and 250, Model 88 308 have all produced sub inch groups at 100 yds.
In the High Desert of Southern Calif. ..."on the cutting edge of going back in time"...

Image
HawkCreek
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 311
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:21 pm

Re: Lever-Action Accuracy

Post by HawkCreek »

Some guns can do better but a 94 Trapper isn't a bench rest gun. 50 yards as the sun has begun to set and I struggled to see the sights. 4 almost 5 rounds of 170 grain factory went minute of coyote and sub minute of deers vitals. Those little 125 grain HP's went pretty high though, had to bottom the rear sight out just to hit the top of the target.

Image
User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 31932
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: Lever-Action Accuracy

Post by AJMD429 »

marlinman93 wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:21 pmMaybe they think the next generation hasn't been exposed to the same old same old.
...and in many cases, they're right...!

I often have guests come out to "the country" to shoot guns they've just purchased, and many of them are relatively 'new' to the shooting hobby/sport/whatever. It seems like to many of them, there are only three kinds of guns:

a) AR-15's of various configurations
b) Glocks
c) the S&W Shield

I think some of them know there are 'bolt-action' guns out there of some sort, and if you ask them about leverguns or revolvers, they say "Oh yeah....I forgot about those....do they still make them....???

What's fun then, is to get them shooting a little 16" Rossi 357 Mag levergun I have, with Marbles 'Bullseye' sights on it - they inevitably have such FUN shooting it, they put down their AR's and shoot up all my 38/357 ammo....!

So the stuff that 'we' find the "same old same old" is probably still as new to these young'un's as it was to us when we flipped through our first Guns&Ammo or American Rifleman back in the 1960's (or whenever).

I hope the guys who patiently taught me about firearms, and answered my tons-of-dumb-questions as a kid, had as much FUN as I do now when I get to work with young and new shooters. Even the urban 'yuppie' types actually CAN learn, and you sure can't beat "leverguns" as an incredibly FUN instruction medium.... 8)

Too bad so few of them are getting to "grow-up with 22's" the way most of us did though - they often primarily want a handgun for 'home protection', but if (even) a 9mm is the first handgun they shoot, they will likely have a much harder time becoming confident with it than if they'd bought a 22 LR pistol first, and put a couple thousand rounds through it.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
Post Reply