33 WCF 1886 and old "tin added" #17 1/2 powder

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coyote nose
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33 WCF 1886 and old "tin added" #17 1/2 powder

Post by coyote nose »

I like experimenting around with vintage guns and accessories. At a gun show a few years ago I came across an unopened can of old DuPont #17 1/2 powder. Opened it and it appeared via sight (no orange dust), feel (not oily), and smell (not rancid) to be undeteriorated. Read up on this powder and learned the "1/2" designation was applied to powders DuPont added tin to back in the 1930s or so, to blend with the copper fouling so prevalent from the pure copper jacket days. So #17 1/2 powder was their regular #17 powder with tin added. After the development of gilding metal it wasnt needed and was dropped from DuPont's line. The can came with suggested loads printed on the back of the can but I knew from past experience that old data is usually HOT! So with due diligence I backed off a bit and tried a few shots with this powder. Shot well actually and did a decent group, then I looked at the bore. Here is the bore after 3 shots! It cleaned up fine but I stopped testing this powder, not wanting a fused tin bore! Thought it would make an interesting addition here to this forum.
tin.jpg
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J Miller
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Re: 33 WCF 1886 and old "tin added" #17 1/2 powder

Post by J Miller »

The fouling must be worse in person than it is looks like on my monitor. Had I been shooting it I would have kept going.

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Re: 33 WCF 1886 and old "tin added" #17 1/2 powder

Post by KWK »

coyote nose wrote: Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:57 pm... DuPont added tin to back in the 1930s or so, to blend with the copper fouling so prevalent from the pure copper jacket days.
Nice find! In the name of Science, ye should buy some bullets jacketed in pure copper from Hawk and blaze away for a while and report how the cleaning goes.
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Re: 33 WCF 1886 and old "tin added" #17 1/2 powder

Post by Sixgun »

Mmmm...I've shot many pounds of obsolete powders...even from the turn of the century ...still have some in fact. I start low, chronograph and work up, usually staying in the middle pressures.

If that 1886 is an original .33 w.c.f. with the octagon barrel, I'll give ya several thousand...just for the barrel.---6
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M. M. Wright
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Re: 33 WCF 1886 and old "tin added" #17 1/2 powder

Post by M. M. Wright »

Dang coyote nose, can we have some more pics of that '86? You've got me and 6 real curious.
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Re: 33 WCF 1886 and old "tin added" #17 1/2 powder

Post by OldWin »

M. M. Wright wrote: Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:38 pm Dang coyote nose, can we have some more pics of that '86? You've got me and 6 real curious.
Sixgun wrote: Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:05 pm Mmmm...I've shot many pounds of obsolete powders...even from the turn of the century ...still have some in fact. I start low, chronograph and work up, usually staying in the middle pressures.

If that 1886 is an original .33 w.c.f. with the octagon barrel, I'll give ya several thousand...just for the barrel.---6

Haha, I noticed that too! Add me to the list.
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coyote nose
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Re: 33 WCF 1886 and old "tin added" #17 1/2 powder

Post by coyote nose »

Yes the fouling was worse in person. There were actually a few 'blobs' of tin near the muzzle end (you can see a small one on the crown in the photo). I rebuilt this from a beat and very inaccurate 33 lightweight. Wrote it up here a few years ago. I'll try to find the link. Did most of the work myself like threading, chambering, dovetails, cutting letters, polishing (and more polishing!) wood work, bluing, etc. Then sent the metal out to Turnbull for case coloring (Turnbull). Really happy with it.
Before and after:
1886before&after.jpg
And some sweet groups. The boxes are factory ammo but I used them as props here. Most of these groups are reloads.:
IMG_0189.JPG
Paid attention to detail, but not strictly. This is the wrong barrel address for this vintage gun but using a borrowed CNC mill I had to get in and out quickly.
45.JPG

The proof took awhile to program
46.JPG
And out where it belongs, the Beartooth Mountains of Wyoming/Montana:
2012,9-19l,meadowlkbeartoothplwyo.JPG
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coyote nose
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Re: 33 WCF 1886 and old "tin added" #17 1/2 powder

Post by coyote nose »

"...for there is a cloud on my horizon...and its name is progress." E. Abbey, 1958
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OldWin
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Re: 33 WCF 1886 and old "tin added" #17 1/2 powder

Post by OldWin »

Wow! Very nice. You did a great job. Something like tgat is really neat. You get a new old rifle. Best of both worlds.
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Re: 33 WCF 1886 and old "tin added" #17 1/2 powder

Post by marlinman93 »

Nice that the old '86 is still being fired, and the report on vintage powder was interesting! I also use a fair amount of vintage powder when I find it cheap, and it smells good.
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Re: 33 WCF 1886 and old "tin added" #17 1/2 powder

Post by Sixgun »

That's a rifle with lots of class....full length mag, the perfect tone of color casehardening...no "overdoing" of the restoration work and I just love that 33 wcf octagon barrel.....a barrel that never was. Very nice and you gave me an idea.....I have an 1886 40-82 heavy barrel that needs to be put to work.

Reminds me of my Colt New Frontier 38-4, a gun that never was until I took a 44 Spl.N.F. and screwed on a 38-40 barrel and cylinder and had the ramp sight from the 44 Spl. Silver soldered on the 38-40 barrel. "Doc" O'meara was playing with it at a get together.....and liked it so much he had one made up.----6
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Re: 33 WCF 1886 and old "tin added" #17 1/2 powder

Post by M. M. Wright »

Thanks coyote nose. That is one neat rifle and I can see you really put a lot of yourself into it. I have one in similar configuration that is a 45-90 that a guy hounded me all day at a gun show to buy from him. It was terrible looking and I just knew would require a re-line for the barrel. It had new wood, badly fitted and someone had rust blued it to the point of boiling it but hadn't carded any of it yet. It shoots OK now with gas checked bullets. Anyway yours is super. Great job.
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coyote nose
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Re: 33 WCF 1886 and old "tin added" #17 1/2 powder

Post by coyote nose »

Thanks for the kind words everybody. I have to sheepishly admit I am quite proud of the gun. While there are a few, there are not many people in my circle of friends that appreciate walnut and steel instead of plastic, so I really liked sharing it here with fellow aficionados. It had been a goal of mine to own one lever gun that looks like something out of the Turnbull catalog. While this is not anyway near up to the standards of that company, it came out better than I expected and the fact it shoots so well makes up for all the time that went into it. Of course, like all things, once this was finished and a break taken, I had to do another.......... it took a few years to start but I recently finished redoing a Winchester 1890 in the same manner as this 1886. NOW I'm definitely taking some time off from this work (yeah right :roll: ).
"...for there is a cloud on my horizon...and its name is progress." E. Abbey, 1958
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