New Winchester 94 450 marlin

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Cliffhanger
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New Winchester 94 450 marlin

Post by Cliffhanger »

Been looking at the new 94 short rifle since they came out, a lot of power in the good ol 94 configuration. I’m a bear hound hunter and like the idea of this rifle but not crazy about the tang safety or rebounding hammer.
Also like the idea of an older model 94 in 38-55 or big bore in 375. Trees bear can be killed with just about any caliber but the big boys in coastal Carolina are a different story as they seldom tree and are shot on the ground while moving. I also thought about a 92 sized carbine in 44 mag or 45 colt. Would love a puma in 454 but they’re scarce and pricey when found, and have no experience with them.not real fond of rossi’s Single shot rifle quality.
I also like the looks of the marlin 1895 18.5” cowboy model but never handled one, I know the 336/1895 is not as light or sleek as the Winchester design as I cut my teeth toting a 70s vintage 336. Loved the gun til I handled my first Winchester 94. Thought about an 1886 too but everything I read says they’re really heavy and weight is a definite issue following hounds all day.
Sorry for rambling, but any insight would be greatly appreciated
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Re: New Winchester 94 450 marlin

Post by gamekeeper »

Welcome to the campfire Cliffhanger.
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Re: New Winchester 94 450 marlin

Post by 3leggedturtle »

I fondled a short Marlin in 450 for awhile at the shop until it got sold. Handled, felt and came up nice. I would have bought it if I didn't have a 45/70 already, plus the guy wanted $150 more than what they were going for on gunbroker. Never weighed it, but felt like 6 3/4lbs. Todd/3leg
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres

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Re: New Winchester 94 450 marlin

Post by Pete44ru »

.

Welcome to the fire, Pardner !

Yes, I too found the Winchester 71/86/1886 too heavy for me, as I aged (I'm 75).

I had several different .45-70's over the years, multiple brands & action types (lever, trapdoor, falling block & bolt-action), but I fell for the hype and bought a new Winchester 94 Timber .450, when it was 1st introduced just after Y2K.

I was very disappointed in it, as I felt "handcuffed" (performance-wise) with the factory Hornady flex-tip ammo.

It gave me no practical advantage over the .45-70, with less ammo availability in the field (like on out-of-state hunting trips), at more $$$.

I sold it after giving it a try (about a year), then went back to a .45-70 Marlin 1895 (which was lighter & easier to disassemble for cleaning than the Winchester 86/1886).

JMO, but I also liked the .444 & .375 Win BigBore 94's just about as much as the .45-70.

YMMV, of course........


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Re: New Winchester 94 450 marlin

Post by vancelw »

Cliffhanger wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:29 am Been looking at the new 94 short rifle since they came out, a lot of power in the good ol 94 configuration. I’m a bear hound hunter and like the idea of this rifle but not crazy about the tang safety or rebounding hammer.
Me neither. 450 Marlin is a good cartridge, but I bet for less money you could get a Browning 1886 Saddle Ring Carbine in new or like new condition. Those will handle a pretty stout round, for instance, Grizzle Ammo's 405 gr Woodleigh at 2100 fps. They have no lawyer safety or rebounding hammer.
I personally would stay away from .375 Win right now, simply because it is in a short cycle and bullets and brass are scarce right now. There has been some factory ammo surface lately, but it may have all been scrarfed up by now.

A modern 94 in .38-55 can be safely loaded to the low end of .375 Win range. If you reload, you simply need .377 jacketed bullets or .379 (+/-) cast. I get about 1800 fps out of Barnes Original 255 grain bullets. Commemoratives are often a bargain, NIB, but even more so if they have been fired.
I have a Chief Crazy Horse (made in 1983, so top-eject, no lawyer safety) and love it. Bought it for about a 3rd or less of what new Miroku-made 94s are priced at.
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Re: New Winchester 94 450 marlin

Post by Griff »

Howdy Cliffhanger, Welcome to The Forum! I know nothing about the 450. I happen to be fond of my 375 Win tho'. When the 450 came along I already had an 1886 in 45-70, and a 45 Colt rifle, It just never pinged on my radar. Shoulder stompin' cartridges are not my thing! But, I have a feeling, somebody'll be along that has one, and will brag all over it! :P :D
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Re: New Winchester 94 450 marlin

Post by 2ndovc »

Griff wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:47 pm Howdy Cliffhanger, Welcome to The Forum! I know nothing about the 450. I happen to be fond of my 375 Win tho'. When the 450 came along I already had an 1886 in 45-70, and a 45 Colt rifle, It just never pinged on my radar. Shoulder stompin' cartridges are not my thing! But, I have a feeling, somebody'll be along that has one, and will brag all over it! :P :D
Well here we go. Not a 94 in .450 but I've had a Marlin since 2007 or so. It's set up with an XS scout scope mount and Leupold scope and has become one of my favorite hunting combos. Knocks wild boar down like Thor's Hammer, a twitch or two and they're done. I like to keep my .45-70s more on the target side of loads. I do have a 1895 LTD III that is quite similar to the new short Cowboy model. Probably the most accurate .45-70 I've ever had. I've been looking at the new .450 Short Rifles but haven't gotten around to buying one yet. I just like the cartridge. Some of us just like to be different. :D

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BenT
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Re: New Winchester 94 450 marlin

Post by BenT »

Marlin guide gun in 45-70 or 444. Winchester also made a big bore in 444. If you can't find what you want JES at 35caliber.com can rebore any Marlin or Winchester to your cartridge of choice.
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Re: New Winchester 94 450 marlin

Post by dgr416 »

I.just found a wood stocked 444 ,Winchester big bore 94 .It's an awesome gun but have not got to shoot it yet very light .I an going to try 225 ,grain hornady bullets loaded to 2800 ,fps before I shoot the 300 grain bullets .I have two 375 Winchester rifles they are awesome .I.had mine in.Alaska but never shot anything but rocks with it .I can't wait to load for this 444 will be interesting .I.wouldn't get a 450 marking.it's a dying cartridge .You can turn the barrels on.them to make the belt shorter so you cab make brass easy but who wants to do all that .I would stay with the 444 or 45-70 your not going to.lose with either one of those !
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Re: New Winchester 94 450 marlin

Post by JerryB »

The deer I killed with a 38-55 was very dead when I walked up to it, a big doe. Used a 255 grain hard cast bullet and 5744 powder, don't remember how much. It was a load that Kirk said he used for his old 38-55 guns. I feel that this bullet with a bigger does of that powder would do well for anything in the lower 48. I recently read an article about a 700 pound black bear killed this year in the coastal woods of South Carolina with a Winchester 94 30-30 by a young man.
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Re: New Winchester 94 450 marlin

Post by Shiloh1944 »

I have both a Winchester 1886 Deluxe Short rifle and a Browning 1886 SRC both in 45-70 and I really like both rifles. The Winchester does have the tang safety and rebounding hammer but it goes bang with every pull of the very crisp clean breaking trigger and kills just like the Browning. The Browning is quite a bit lighter in weight and would be my recommendation as to what you might be looking for. It is true they may be a bit pricy but man do they shoot good and carry easy.
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Re: New Winchester 94 450 marlin

Post by Old Time Hunter »

Cliffhanger wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:29 am Been looking at the new 94 short rifle since they came out, a lot of power in the good ol 94 configuration. I’m a bear hound hunter and like the idea of this rifle but not crazy about the tang safety or rebounding hammer.
Also like the idea of an older model 94 in 38-55 or big bore in 375. Trees bear can be killed with just about any caliber but the big boys in coastal Carolina are a different story as they seldom tree and are shot on the ground while moving. I also thought about a 92 sized carbine in 44 mag or 45 colt. Would love a puma in 454 but they’re scarce and pricey when found, and have no experience with them.not real fond of rossi’s Single shot rifle quality.
I also like the looks of the marlin 1895 18.5” cowboy model but never handled one, I know the 336/1895 is not as light or sleek as the Winchester design as I cut my teeth toting a 70s vintage 336. Loved the gun til I handled my first Winchester 94. Thought about an 1886 too but everything I read says they’re really heavy and weight is a definite issue following hounds all day.
Sorry for rambling, but any insight would be greatly appreciated
Get a .444 Winchester Timber Carbine and load it to meet your needs. If you are in the SE, do not need a longer gun or the range past a couple of hundred yards.
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Re: New Winchester 94 450 marlin

Post by piller »

The Guide Gun in .45-70 does well on anything you might want to hunt. Just as with any other gun, the person doing the shooting has to do their part. I have never had a single time when mine failed. I have caused it to miss, but it was for certain my fault. Every time when I did my part, it performed up to the near mythical reputation that round has earned. With the large number and variety of bullets and gun powders which work well in it, it is versatile and easily adjusted to match your needs. I have no experience with the .444, so I have no comment on that cartridge which is anything other than an opinion without knowledge.

It is never a bad idea to get a caliber which is available almost anywhere you would want to hunt. If you get a rare caliber, make sure that you have your ammunition with you when you are ready to go hunting. Having an empty gun is not helpful when you want to hunt.
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Re: New Winchester 94 450 marlin

Post by AJMD429 »

If I had to tote it alot, I'd take my slick and fast little 16" Rossi 92 clone in 454 Casull, but IF I wanted even more power then I might go with a slower-to-work long-action levergun in 444 Marlin or 45-70, (or the 450 Marlin). The advantage of the 450 would be no fears of putting 'modern' ammo in a 'vintage' gun and blowing it up, but ammo isn't all that commonly available, either. However if I want plenty of thump, I am fortunate enough to have a 500 S&W Big Horn Armory model 89 that is an iteration of the 1886 (sort-of), and would probably just take it since its about the same weight and size as a Marlin Guide Gun, but holds 7 rounds of Really Big Medicine.

Not sure a hog would know the difference in 454 Casull vs 500 S&W from a rifle though. A big bear might.
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Re: New Winchester 94 450 marlin

Post by JFE »

With the larger calibers in a levergun you don't want a rifle that's too light. You can load it down of course but then you can use a smaller cartridge. One of the best for your application would be a 375 BB in a Winchester or a Marlin. The Winchester in a top eject is quite a bit lighter - it weighs about the same as a 92 in 44 mag. There was no rebounding hammer or tang safety on the 375 BB's. For either of these you'd need to reload and a ideally cast your own pills.

Moving to the larger cals, I see a number don't like the weight of the 1886 rifles. The late model ones came in a bewildering variety of configurations. The one that would suit your needs best is the Win 1886 Extra Light. These weighed in at around 7.5lb. The popular short Marlin models (SBL/GBL) weigh more than that. The downside is that model has the tang safety and rebounding hammer. These parts can be removed and replaced with Browning 1886 parts but it will cost to have that work done. The upside with a 1886 is that with the right shaped bullets, you can load and cycle much longer shells (around 2.8") and this virtually turns your rifle into a 45/90. Browning 1886 models are good but even the carbine weighs in at around 8lb and I'm not a fan of the buttstock on the carbine model as it doesn't handle recoil well at all.

Personally I think you need to try a few out to see what suits you best.
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Re: New Winchester 94 450 marlin

Post by Cliffhanger »

Thanks guys! If Winchester can chamber the new 94 in 450, why couldn’t an AE model be converted to 444 or 45-70 which both operate at lower pressures?
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Re: New Winchester 94 450 marlin

Post by buckeyeshooter »

Sounds like a marl7n in 35 remington might work. CDNN did have some 1886 trappers in 45/70. The short barrel and 1/2 magazine would make then lighter. If you dont mind spending money, but a turnbull marlin in 475 turnbull. Doug has killed elephants with that cartridge.
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