Ballard in .50-70 Govt.
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- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
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- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
Ballard in .50-70 Govt.
We had our monthly collectors gun show on Sunday, and I picked up another Ballard to add to the collection. I first saw this gun 4 years ago, and was asked by a old friend to advise him on purchasing it. I was very jealous of his find, and told him if it ever went up for sale I wanted a chance at it! 4 months ago he called me and said he was selling it. But he lives 100 miles from me, and also has health issues, so it took forever to finally complete the deal! These were not easy months of waiting!!!
The Ballard is a #4 Perfection model, with the .50-70 caliber 30" full octagon barrel. The #4 was the only Ballard ever offered in .50-70, and I've never seen one in my years of collecting. I talked with John Dutcher at the Denver show years ago about this gun, and he said he also had never seen one. In his book on Ballard history he mentions that the .50-70 was already becoming obsolete when Ballard production started at Marlin, and he felt very few were produced.
The most interesting part of the .50 caliber Ballard is it's barrel. Marlin didn't make .50 caliber barrels, so they purchased barrels for these guns from C. Sharps Rifle Co. at the time. So instead of this Ballard having typical Ballard rifling, it has Sharps rifling!
These #4's in .50 caliber were only offered the first year in 1875, so like some other early Ballard rifles, Marlin built these guns using a lot of parts given to them when Brown Mfg. Co. went bankrupt. Schoverling and Daley owned the Ballard patents, and along with the parts given to Marlin, a good number of employees of Brown also joined Marlin. With Brown Mfg. employees and Marlin employees, these guns got a lot of parts from booth companies mixed together. This particular "hybrid" uses Brown Mfg. reverse curve lever, hammer, trigger, and deep crescent buttplate. Receiver is a forged Marlin item, as is the wood. The breechblock is Marlin, but of their early design, so likely a Brown that was milled to Marlin style.
This my later #4 for comparison:
You can see the hammer and trigger are both shorter on the Brown parts. The firing pin screw is not drilled through on the early breechblock, but is on the later Marlin.
The bore on this rifle looks as new! Bright and shiny, and very little use from what I see. The action is the same, with a very tight lock up, and great fit. When I got the gun home I tore it down to inspect, and it appeared to have never been completely apart before. I cleaned and oiled it, and reassembled the gun. This gun has seen a lot of carry wear! The forearm is worn down a good 1/8" or more between the forearm screw and receiver from riding across a saddle, or just being carried there. The external finish is nearly all gone, but no dings or damage, just carried until it has no finish.
I dug through my old Ballard parts and found a period correct early Marlin tang sight to mount. The plug screws were frozen in the receiver, so I used my left hand drill bits to drill them out, and the last size caught both screws and spun them free! Mounted up the tang sight, and the patina matched the gun well.
Ordered up some .50-70 brass, dies, and bullets. I've never owned this caliber, so didn't want to buy a mold until I see what it likes. But if it's fun to shoot, I can see myself shooting it a lot, as there's no minty finish to worry about.
The Ballard is a #4 Perfection model, with the .50-70 caliber 30" full octagon barrel. The #4 was the only Ballard ever offered in .50-70, and I've never seen one in my years of collecting. I talked with John Dutcher at the Denver show years ago about this gun, and he said he also had never seen one. In his book on Ballard history he mentions that the .50-70 was already becoming obsolete when Ballard production started at Marlin, and he felt very few were produced.
The most interesting part of the .50 caliber Ballard is it's barrel. Marlin didn't make .50 caliber barrels, so they purchased barrels for these guns from C. Sharps Rifle Co. at the time. So instead of this Ballard having typical Ballard rifling, it has Sharps rifling!
These #4's in .50 caliber were only offered the first year in 1875, so like some other early Ballard rifles, Marlin built these guns using a lot of parts given to them when Brown Mfg. Co. went bankrupt. Schoverling and Daley owned the Ballard patents, and along with the parts given to Marlin, a good number of employees of Brown also joined Marlin. With Brown Mfg. employees and Marlin employees, these guns got a lot of parts from booth companies mixed together. This particular "hybrid" uses Brown Mfg. reverse curve lever, hammer, trigger, and deep crescent buttplate. Receiver is a forged Marlin item, as is the wood. The breechblock is Marlin, but of their early design, so likely a Brown that was milled to Marlin style.
This my later #4 for comparison:
You can see the hammer and trigger are both shorter on the Brown parts. The firing pin screw is not drilled through on the early breechblock, but is on the later Marlin.
The bore on this rifle looks as new! Bright and shiny, and very little use from what I see. The action is the same, with a very tight lock up, and great fit. When I got the gun home I tore it down to inspect, and it appeared to have never been completely apart before. I cleaned and oiled it, and reassembled the gun. This gun has seen a lot of carry wear! The forearm is worn down a good 1/8" or more between the forearm screw and receiver from riding across a saddle, or just being carried there. The external finish is nearly all gone, but no dings or damage, just carried until it has no finish.
I dug through my old Ballard parts and found a period correct early Marlin tang sight to mount. The plug screws were frozen in the receiver, so I used my left hand drill bits to drill them out, and the last size caught both screws and spun them free! Mounted up the tang sight, and the patina matched the gun well.
Ordered up some .50-70 brass, dies, and bullets. I've never owned this caliber, so didn't want to buy a mold until I see what it likes. But if it's fun to shoot, I can see myself shooting it a lot, as there's no minty finish to worry about.
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
- GunnyMack
- Advanced Levergunner
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Re: Ballard in .50-70 Govt.
That my friend was a great find on your friends part and I'm happy he honored your request!
Let's see some targets!,
Let's see some targets!,
BROWN LABS MATTER !!
- Shasta
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1556
- Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:50 pm
- Location: Shasta County, the far right stronghold in California
Re: Ballard in .50-70 Govt.
That is one cool rifle!
I'm looking forward to finding out how it shoots for you. Somewhere in my reloading shed there is a Lyman 515139 bullet mould that I believe is around 330 grains and designed for the .50-70. PM me if you want me to send you some bullets from it. That particular mould is on sale now at Midway for $60 or so.
Shasta
I'm looking forward to finding out how it shoots for you. Somewhere in my reloading shed there is a Lyman 515139 bullet mould that I believe is around 330 grains and designed for the .50-70. PM me if you want me to send you some bullets from it. That particular mould is on sale now at Midway for $60 or so.
Shasta
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avatar pic is Shasta Dam, Shasta Lake, & Mt. Shasta
National Rifle Association BENEFACTOR LIFE Member
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avatar pic is Shasta Dam, Shasta Lake, & Mt. Shasta
-
- Advanced Levergunner
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Re: Ballard in .50-70 Govt.
Vall, congratulations. No one appreciates these rare old Ballards like you do. It found a good home!
Re: Ballard in .50-70 Govt.
Just WOW. So glad it found a good home. Looking forward to the field reports.
- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6432
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
Re: Ballard in .50-70 Govt.
Thanks guys! Might show that I'm super excited to get this gun. Even more so than some pretty minty Ballards I've gotten, just because it's such an unusual gun! It's a 3 digit serial number 59x and I have another #4 in serial number 48x that's neat, but not like this one's level!
Shasta,
Thanks for the offer! I have some 500 gr. and a bag of 365 gr. coming, so I think I'm OK. But if I can take a rain check, I might take you up on the offer once I fired this gun with the bullets and see which weight feels best, and shoots best. I do prefer lighter bullets for my shoulder though!
Shasta,
Thanks for the offer! I have some 500 gr. and a bag of 365 gr. coming, so I think I'm OK. But if I can take a rain check, I might take you up on the offer once I fired this gun with the bullets and see which weight feels best, and shoots best. I do prefer lighter bullets for my shoulder though!
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
- Griff
- Posting leader...
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Re: Ballard in .50-70 Govt.
Very nice Vall.
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
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GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
-
- Advanced Levergunner
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Re: Ballard in .50-70 Govt.
Outstanding acquisition! I love seeing such rifles used, not just displayed.
M. M. Wright, Sheriff, Green county Arkansas (1860)
Currently living my eternal life.
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Currently living my eternal life.
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- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6432
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
Re: Ballard in .50-70 Govt.
Thanks! Yes, all mine get used. Some not as much as others, or very carefully. But none are safe queens and not getting fired. I've always wondered how guys can own an old gun and not want to enjoy shooting it?
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
Re: Ballard in .50-70 Govt.
Impressive!
Re: Ballard in .50-70 Govt.
Very nice !
Now ya need to plunk a mulie or an elk with it
Now ya need to plunk a mulie or an elk with it
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6432
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
Re: Ballard in .50-70 Govt.
Would love to take some game with this Ballard, and since it's got little finish I sure can't hurt it banging around in the woods!
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
Re: Ballard in .50-70 Govt.
Nice Ballard! I wonder, though, why your first year Marlin Ballard came with a forged steel receiver, whereas my somewhat later Marlin Ballard in 44w supposedly came with a cast steel receiver??? If Marlin had the technology to forge their receivers in 1875, why did they not do so consistently? I have NOT YET fired my 44w, mainly because folks suggests it might not be strong enough, even for black powder loads, let alone 6 or 7 grains of Unique powder. Marlinman, what do you think about firing a Marlin Ballard in 44w? I understand that you have one and shoot it.
Re: Ballard in .50-70 Govt.
That is a cool looking rifle. I hope it is as much fun as it looks like it would be.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6432
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
Re: Ballard in .50-70 Govt.
From the first year to the very last year, Marlin used cast receivers for the #2 and #3 Ballard rifles. All others got forged receivers. Your #2 in .44-40 is a cast receiver, like all #2 Ballards were. Marlin determined these rifles were strong enough for the calibers offered, but later dropped the .44-40 when factory ammunition was introduced in very hot loadings.southfork wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:23 pm Nice Ballard! I wonder, though, why your first year Marlin Ballard came with a forged steel receiver, whereas my somewhat later Marlin Ballard in 44w supposedly came with a cast steel receiver??? If Marlin had the technology to forge their receivers in 1875, why did they not do so consistently? I have NOT YET fired my 44w, mainly because folks suggests it might not be strong enough, even for black powder loads, let alone 6 or 7 grains of Unique powder. Marlinman, what do you think about firing a Marlin Ballard in 44w? I understand that you have one and shoot it.
I own #2's in both .44-40 and .444 Long CF, and shoot them all the time. You should not have to worry about shooting yours with BP ever, and if you're an experienced reloader they can handle mild smokeless loads also. I've never fired either of my #2's in .44 with anything but smokeless loads. But I've also never fired ANY factory .44-40 cartridges in them. Your load of 6-7 grs. of Unique should be a very pleasant load in the #2 in .44-40.
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6432
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
Re: Ballard in .50-70 Govt.
I hope so too! Still waiting on Midway order so I can find out! I guess their free shipping on cyber Monday is by wagon train!
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
Re: Ballard in .50-70 Govt.
Super nice, thanks for showing it.
Because I Can, and Have
-------------------------------------------------------------
USAF-72-76
God Bless America.
Disclaimer, not responsible for anyone copying or building anything i make.
Always consult an expert first.
-------------------------------------------------------------
USAF-72-76
God Bless America.
Disclaimer, not responsible for anyone copying or building anything i make.
Always consult an expert first.
- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6432
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
Re: Ballard in .50-70 Govt.
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6432
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
Re: Ballard in .50-70 Govt.
Midway finally delivered the dies, brass and bullets for the .50-70! Ordered on 11-27-17, so I guess free shipping means the slowest method they could find at UPS! Finally get some loads worked up and see what the gun prefers.
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
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Re: Ballard in .50-70 Govt.
Love me some Ballard! Beautiful!
Here’s a story about mine
http:/http://rvbprecision.com/shooting/a-ball ... llard.html
http://rvbprecision.com/shooting/a-ball ... llard.html
Here’s a story about mine
http:/http://rvbprecision.com/shooting/a-ball ... llard.html
http://rvbprecision.com/shooting/a-ball ... llard.html