Win 94 better trigger pull with 1/2 cock hammer or rebounding

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emmettva
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Win 94 better trigger pull with 1/2 cock hammer or rebounding

Post by emmettva »

Hello Have just discovered a great bp load for my late issued 94 AE with rebounding hammer and tang safety BUT from bench only. The trigger has looong travel creep etc etc. which makes (for me) horrible offhand attempts at hitting the 200 m ram. I am considering replacing several parts to convert the rifle to the earlier 1/2 cock safety version of the hammer with a direct interaction among trigger sear and hammer which you cant get with the rebounding set up. I really like the crisp pull and weight you can get from the earlier non lawyer trigger styles. Can i get a similar clean, lighter break from the rebounding version which uses a spring associated with the trigger-to trip the sear? All my web searches only show polishing etc but no one gives an indication as to pull weight rr cleanness of break with the as-issued rebounding hammer set up. Thanks
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Griff
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Re: Win 94 better trigger pull with 1/2 cock hammer or rebounding

Post by Griff »

Image and Welcome to THE Forum. I can't answer your question. I have avoided any of the rebounding hammer versions. And so know nothing about making them better. My only suggestion is reading Mohave Gambler's tune-up tips.
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Re: Win 94 better trigger pull with 1/2 cock hammer or rebounding

Post by GunnyMack »

Welcome aboard!
I'd say try the polishing bit and see for yourself if you like the set up. If you aren't happy then go to swapping parts. As a wise man once told me, it doesn't hurt to try!
I'm not familiar with the rebounding hammer engineering or your skill set but maybe, just maybe those triggers can be tuned some...
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Blaine
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Re: Win 94 better trigger pull with 1/2 cock hammer or rebounding

Post by Blaine »

My scientific wild-azzed guess is that many times the difference between the old models and new are that they are well broken in.
An old-timey trigger job was done by cocking the hammer and gently exerting pressure on it while pulling the trigger. After a while the rough spots are smoothed out. I've also smoothed up actions by polishing where the top of the hammer hits the bottom of the bolt. YMMV, and you are on your own.
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emmettva
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Re: Win 94 better trigger pull with 1/2 cock hammer or rebounding

Post by emmettva »

Thanks for the (re) welcome I was off-site a long time and finally got thru to a site administrator today. My skill set is below average--I know my limitations, but I have read Mohave Gambler's sticky on this site on smoothing out an early 94 AE with the rebounding hammer. Just can't tell if worth the trouble as he was thinking of cowboy action (short range, rapid) shooting, or should go direct to replacement of the appropriate parts. I have worked on late 60's 94 commemoratives with a 1/2 cock notch hammers and the flat springs and improved the pull and break but I really don't know what can be achieved with a late model 94 AE with rebound and indirect trigger-sear- hammer coupling. I don't want to make make a big deal but this puppy really surprised me from bench at 200 yd with a duplex load made for another rifle after several years of so so performance from bench and offhand -- it was on the "thinning the herd" list -- but it now deserves a far better trigger than the lawyer trigger it was given by WInchester.
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Re: Win 94 better trigger pull with 1/2 cock hammer or rebounding

Post by Nath »

All my 94's had rebounders and all had no creep and broke under 2lb.
After I stoned the Sears and replaced the first stage spring.

Avoid lightening the main spring, it won't help.
The Sears act more like hooks than Sears. Remove this and they are fine units. You can often see the hammer being pushed back some just before breaking in standard form, which means the trigger finger is pushing the mainspring via the 'hooked' sears!

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buckeyeshooter
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Re: Win 94 better trigger pull with 1/2 cock hammer or rebounding

Post by buckeyeshooter »

In my case, I sent my rebounders to Turnbull and had the rebounder removed, the tang safety deleted and got a nice case color finish done. Not inexpensive, but you only live 1 time.
emmettva
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Re: Win 94 better trigger pull with 1/2 cock hammer or rebounding

Post by emmettva »

Nath very interesting results. 2LBS with no creep would be fantastic. Not sure what you mean by the "first stage spring". Is this the right fork of the split trigger/sear spring lying in/on the bottom trigger plate? Not sure how to replace that independently of the other fork. Also did you merely smooth the sear edge to remove burrs or was there more serious removal of metal?
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Re: Win 94 better trigger pull with 1/2 cock hammer or rebounding

Post by Nath »

Hi.
The long first stage travel on a rebounder 94 is a small coil spring that often binds and clicks during first stage travel.
I have a set of small oil stones, some soft and some hard. I use them to remove metal so that a camming action that occurs in standard form via the sears is stopped. This in it self is usually all that is needed to vastly improve the trigger on standard springs in the later 94 Winchester's.

It is a fiddle to do and may take several attempts but worth it.

Needle files wrapped with fine wet&dry emery paper works too.

There is no burrs, the angle of the sears are deliberately cut so during movement they actually push against the main spring before breaking.

Anyone with an auto shotgun or slide action with a removable trigger block can witness this in action very easily. You will see the hooked sears actually 'cock' the hammer slightly more before breaking.

It's the same in the 94 rebounding trigger. Change the sear angles slightly and you no longer have to push the hammer spring with your trigger finger!

N.
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emmettva
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Re: Win 94 better trigger pull with 1/2 cock hammer or rebounding

Post by emmettva »

Thanks, Nath. Your earlier post said to replace the trigger coil spring (the first stage spring that clicks etc) did you simply replace or also modify it? Also I leave the full cock notch on the hammer alone and simply work on the sear angle, yes? I presume where it mates with the full cock notch.
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Re: Win 94 better trigger pull with 1/2 cock hammer or rebounding

Post by Nath »

I replace the first stage spring with a lighter and narrower one.
You may be satisfied with just doing the little sear but I usually do the hammer too.
It does not need much! It will test your patience as you must rebuild the unit each time to test it!

N.
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