Need Help to Find Front Sights for Winchester 94 (pre64)

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Dhillon45
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Need Help to Find Front Sights for Winchester 94 (pre64)

Post by Dhillon45 »

I’m From India and I’ve recently Bought a model 94 in 30-30. the Front sights are soldered and I can only put a New Sight blade But I want to Install some Fibre Optic Sights. Can anyone recommend some or suggest me some other options.
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gamekeeper
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Re: Need Help to Find Front Sights for Winchester 94 (pre64)

Post by gamekeeper »

Welcome to the campfire :D
Truglo make fibre optic sights for the 94, I'm not sure if they fit all 94s though.
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Malamute
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Re: Need Help to Find Front Sights for Winchester 94 (pre64)

Post by Malamute »

Rather than calling it "pre-64". you may get more useful results using the term "SRC" or saddle ring carbine, which it sounds like yours is. There wasnt much difference between whats commonly called "pre-64" and post 64 sights on most made after the early 30s. Some special recent models (late 1960s onwards), like commemoratives also had the early type front sight with soldered small base and small blade pinned in.

Unfortunately, many simply dont know the difference between the sight parts in the ramped sights that became common in the 30s and were used throughout production afterwards, regardlesss of pre- or post-64 timeline, and the early type carbine sights (commonly called "saddle ring carbines"). Ive seen it a number of times on various forums, well meaning but not well informed posters suggest or link to all sorts of things that dont apply. The only thing that works without modification to the gun is a small blade pinned into the small base silver brazed onto the barrel at the factory. I dont know if anyone is making fiber optic sights that fit the early type front sight bases. Ive modified dovetail sights by grinding them into blades and removing the dovetail base part, but it require a pretty tall sight to end up with a blade the correct size.

Do you know the year your gun was made?

Depending on the type of rear sight, the height of the front may be important to get the exact same height front sight. The early type carbine rear sights, commonly called "ladder" sights now, had no elevation adjustment on the normal close range leaf, so changing the height of the front sight will adversely affect your point of impact.

If you cant find anything that will work, or can be made to work, bright colored fingernail polish, with a white undercoat, helps quite a lot in low light levels. I find the painted sights can be seen after fiber optics can not be seen if you choose a good nail polish color, like extremely vivid bright orange.

If anyone wants to geek out on Winchester sight details, this is a pretty good photographic study up to 1932, with 5 links to descriptions and pictures of sights. They take a while to load, but its very good information if one likes that sort of thing.

https://winchestercollector.org/forum/w ... s+Project/
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Dhillon45
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Re: Need Help to Find Front Sights for Winchester 94 (pre64)

Post by Dhillon45 »

Thanks for Such a Detailed Answer Melamutr.
Yes I’ve a Saddle Ring Carbine Indeed and It was Made in 1924. I’ve surfed google for long but I can’t find any front sight that seems to fit on it.
As you said, I think I would’ve to resort to my local gunsmith.
Here are a few pics
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earlmck
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Re: Need Help to Find Front Sights for Winchester 94 (pre64)

Post by earlmck »

Dhillon, that appears to me to be dovetailed in. Pound that sight out of there (left to right), measure the height, and order your fiber optic of choice. I like green best but you have several options as you have no doubt noticed. They normally supply the replacement sight slightly oversized so you can file the dovetail area (of the new sight) to make a pleasantly tight fit.

Yeah, if the sight doesn't pound out fairly readily (I use a brass drift punch) you might want to soak it in kroil or other penetrating oil overnight.

And Malamute -- thanks for that informative link!
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Hawkeye2
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Re: Need Help to Find Front Sights for Winchester 94 (pre64)

Post by Hawkeye2 »

The blade is pinned to the base, you can clearly see the pin. My 94 SRC made in 1925 has a blade with a bead pinned in to a a slot in the base. The base on mine is not dovetailed in but is permanently attached to the barrel from the factory. I can't tell from your photos where yours might be dovetailed and I would not pound on the base without confirming (gunsmith) that it is indeed dovetailed.
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Re: Need Help to Find Front Sights for Winchester 94 (pre64)

Post by Malamute »

That looks like a factory front sight base, DONT POUND ON IT!!!! They were silver soldered to the barrel. Its been reported that some were dovetailed in a very shallow dovetail, peened in place, THEN silver soldered, meaning its basically permanently attached, unless one wished to do so in a destructive manner, it isnt coming off. Whatever dovetail was present on some is totally hidden by the peening and silver solder. The finish polishing was done after sight attachment, the joint should be pretty much invisible. I believe some were also machined from the barrel steel, as were some early ramps.

With the type of rear sight you have, the front will need to be the exact same height. If it doesnt hit exactly where you want, Id make a plain blade that you can file to sight it in, then copy that height with the fiber optic sight. By the way, your rear sight is an uncommon special order sight. Please dont do anything to alter it. I dont know what its value is, but a wild guess, it may be worth more than an entire common shooter grade post 64 carbine. Some of the common early carbine "ladder" sights can go for a couple hundred dollars. If it isnt working for you, Id suggest removing it and keeping it in a safe place to help the value of the gun if its ever sold.

If you want the fiber optic, I think the only relatively simple way is getting as tall of a blade with dovetail base and grind the base into a plain blade, then fit it into the slot in your front sight base, and get it as close to the exact same height as possible before drilling it for the pin. I have done that to get a sourdough type sight on an early carbine type front sight base. Using a bench grinder to get close, then hand filing the sides, then getting the bottom worked out for shape and height, you should be able to make it work. If the fiber insert can be removed, it may help keep it from melting when grinding. I dont know if a rifle fiber optic sight can be shortened to fit the length of the original front sight base. They make fiber optic pistol front sights, but modifying one intended for a rifle may not leave enough support for the insert. Thats a judgement youll have to make comparing pictures of the different versions.


This is the general idea I had in mind. Midway showed two different sights that may be adaptable with some work.

One was intended for Ruger 22 auto pistols, it looks like the length is a bit too long, but could be machined or ground down to a blade shape. The other is a rifle sight, the fiber tube is longer, I think Id cut it down to only two tube holders to more closely match the length of the base on your barrel. I made marks on the image to try to convey the idea.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/21921 ... iber-optic

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/92385 ... -optic-red

firesight.jpg

This was a tall dovetail barrel sight I cut and ground down to fit into the early type front sight base. It may help illustrate the idea I'm trying to convey.
IMG_3237.jpg
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Pete44ru
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Re: Need Help to Find Front Sights for Winchester 94 (pre64)

Post by Pete44ru »

Dhillon45 wrote: Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:48 am I’m From India and I’ve recently Bought a model 94 in 30-30. the Front sights are soldered and I can only put a New Sight blade But I want to Install some Fibre Optic Sights. Can anyone recommend some or suggest me some other options.
Welcome to the forum, Dhillon45 !

Your carbine's front sight should be easily removable from the square base (common to early Carbines) via tapping out the pin that holds the sight blade to the base.

AFAIK, there's no FO front sight blade that will fit the slot in the sight base of your Carbine, but a "sporting" FO or Ivory bead flat front sight blade meant for a 1903/1903A3 US Springfield rifle can be fitted to your sight base. (google "1903 Springfield front sight blade for sale")

Image


Alternately, a short length of fiber optic rod in the color of your choice can be secured to the top of your existing front sight blade to both raise the sighting bead and to provide yourself with a FO front sight.

https://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts ... 38863.aspx


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