500 S&W vs Guide Gun

[AJMD429]

Since about guns are about the same size and weight I thought this was an interesting comparison.

https://youtu.be/QcFx_IN-n-s

And yes I know the Big Horn Armory one cost about three times what the Guide Gun costs.....

[Blaine]

Whew, that boy can go on and on and on.

[harry]

Whew, that boy can go on and on and on.

I quit watching after 10 min of rambling on.

[J Miller]

Way too much jack jawing. 10 minutes in I had a headache from his prattering on and left.

Just shoot the darn things.

Joe

[AJMD429]

I agree he prattles too much....

Did you notice that he shoots leverguns with his fingers wrapped around the lever, rather than within it...??? No wonder he likes the skinnier lever.

My Model 89 lever stays put just right, but several other leverguns I've had when brand-new did a bit of lever-drop; seems like that goes away after you shoot 'em.

I remember a review he did a few years ago of a $2,500 AR-platform 308 or some such, and he didn't whine as much about the price.

[Chuck 100 yd]

I like Hickock45. Maybe he talks a lot because he was a school teacher. He is a dang good shot ! They claim that they don't edit out any misses.

[Blaine]

I like Hickock45. Maybe he talks a lot because he was a school teacher. He is a dang good shot ! They claim that they don't edit out any misses.

Our own Grizz? You should see him shoot.

[Griff]

Interesting review.

[jeepnik]

I agree he prattles too much....

Did you notice that he shoots leverguns with his fingers wrapped around the lever, rather than within it...??? No wonder he likes the skinnier lever.

My Model 89 lever stays put just right, but several other leverguns I've had when brand-new did a bit of lever-drop; seems like that goes away after you shoot 'em.

I remember a review he did a few years ago of a $2,500 AR-platform 308 or some such, and he didn't whine as much about the price.

He mentions he's 6' 8". If so his hands are likely very large and it's easier for him to wrap his hand around the lever than through. It's possible too that his hands just don't fit comfortably into the lever.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

The fact that his lever kept dropping on the Model 89 bothered me. Certainly when it came time to load and cycle a couple of rounds, he had trouble because again the lever popped. I'm wondering if this happens on all of them or just the sample he ended up with.

[jeepnik]

Yea, on a multi thousand dollar gun you'd think it would work correctly from the factory.

I wonder how much that had to do with his decision to prefer the Marlin.

[Chuck 100 yd]

He claims that none of his guns that he tests come from the manufacture so none of them would be specially chosen for such a test. The 89 did come from the maker as I understand. You would think that knowing that their rifle will end up in a Utube video that it would at least have been checked over for proper function. That leads me to believe the lever droop is common if not normal.

[Old Ironsights]

Sounds like Siri vs Alexa...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_1dhKsELzs

[Rimfire McNutjob]

The spring cover and leaf/gate also stand pretty proud of the receiver's side. I wonder if the production rifles are like that or if this is just a "feature" of an early production gun? I think that would bother me.

[jeepnik]

The spring cover and leaf/gate also stand pretty proud of the receiver's side. I wonder if the production rifles are like that or if this is just a "feature" of an early production gun? I think that would bother me.

Website images show that it is just as proud. But it does look sturdy as all get out. Still, it's bulkier and heavier, and won't do anything the Marlin 1895 won't do. In fact I suspect that the trajectory using 300 gr bullets is quite a bit flatter than anything the 500 will do.

Heck just did a quick check, and the heaviest 500 you can find is a 500 gr. at 1500 fps. Garrett has a 45/70 540 gr. at 1550. So, the 500 can't match the 45/70 ballistically when you get to the heavy weights.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I'm not sure what the point of that is, but I do now see it in some angled photos on their website as you suggest. Maybe it helps to locate the port in darkness or something? I don't know. The one in the internet video was proud beyond reason I thought.

[harry]

The spring cover and leaf/gate also stand pretty proud of the receiver's side. I wonder if the production rifles are like that or if this is just a "feature" of an early production gun? I think that would bother me.

Website images show that it is just as proud. But it does look sturdy as all get out. Still, it's bulkier and heavier, and won't do anything the Marlin 1895 won't do. In fact I suspect that the trajectory using 300 gr bullets is quite a bit flatter than anything the 500 will do.

Heck just did a quick check, and the heaviest 500 you can find is a 500 gr. at 1500 fps. Garrett has a 45/70 540 gr. at 1550. So, the 500 can't match the 45/70 ballistically when you get to the heavy weights.

Most 500 S&W data is from a 8 3/8"* barrel, with my 20" Encore I get 1600 fps with 700gr hard cast. I load them down to 1300 so my shoulder doesn't turn black. (*corrected barrel length)

[Blaine]

Addressing the matter of a beautiful Bucket List Rifle. Those Big Horn rifles in high grade sure are pretty. I got my Shiloh Sharps as nice as I could afford at the time just because it's so dang pretty and put together like a Swiss watch. Worth 3200+? Maybe not, but what the heck.

[harry]

500 S&W 400gr on left, 700gr on right

400 and 700 gr .500 SW.JPG

[Griff]

I didn't expect him to come to any other conclusion. Since, by his own admission, he's partially sponsored by Bud's Guns, which will they be likely to sell more of, the Marlin 1895 or the mdl 89? Personally, I don't trust the strength of a 336 action in those large diameter cartridges. But, that's just my own bias speaking. YMMV.

[Grizz]

500 S&W 400gr on left, 700gr on right
400 and 700 gr .500 SW.JPG

I like the looks of the 700. What are velocities out of your firearms? Do you know the downrange velocities?

What pressure are you running, if you know.

Thanks for the info.

I've seen some 700+ gr 45/70 loads, but haven't shot any.

[harry]

500 S&W 400gr on left, 700gr on right
400 and 700 gr .500 SW.JPG

I like the looks of the 700. What are velocities out of your firearms? Do you know the downrange velocities?

What pressure are you running, if you know.

Thanks for the info.

I've seen some 700+ gr 45/70 loads, but haven't shot any.

Grizz the pressure is <52K at 1300fps (muzzle) I don't have down range numbers, I will this summer (just for you). I only have the 20" Encore barrel and the pressure is measured with https://www.shootingsoftware.com/pressure.htm. This is the Ranger Rick bullet cast by Matts Bullets, I also have the 630gr which is the 700 hollow pointed.

[AJMD429]

I didn't expect him to come to any other conclusion. Since, by his own admission, he's partially sponsored by Bud's Guns, which will they be likely to sell more of, the Marlin 1895 or the mdl 89? Personally, I don't trust the strength of a 336 action in those large diameter cartridges. But, that's just my own bias speaking. YMMV.

I have the same feeling; seen too many kabooms and kaboom photos over the years, and I'd say 1/3rd have been Guide Guns - way higher a percentage of those than they represent of the guns out there. The 1886 or '1889' action seems far more appropriate for large-base cases....look at a cross-sectional diagram of the chamber, receiver, and magazine cutout in the 336 when chambered in 45-70, and it is downright scary.

....IMHO, of course.....

[AJMD429]

I've seen 'user data' (not 'factory data' yet, but haven't looked much) for the 700 grain 0.500" bullet that claims 1500 fps from a rifle.

Doubt a 700 grain would feed though (although I think the same action does work for the much-longer 460 S&W).

So far, I've shot mostly 350-450 grain factory loads in mine, but would like to work up a cast 500 grain load in both the 1100 fps and 1500 fps ranges; with a wide meplat 0.5" hard-cast bullet the extra velocity only would matter if I were taking long shots due to range-estimation error; the TKO factor is plenty.

My only 'complaint' about the Model 89 would be 'cost', but.....you get what you pay for, and that gun is tough and beautiful (same way I like my wimmen). It is NOT a historic or vintage "1886" and that wasn't what I wanted, but neither is it a production-class Marlin 336 that got stretched from 375 Win (a great clambering for a gun like that) to 45-70.

I still have, and like, my Guide Gun, but if my life, or the hunt of a lifetime, depended on one or the other, I'd be totin' the BigHorn 89. I just need to put a few hundred more rounds through it and smooth it up like the Marlin...

BTW, my lever on my 89 has no 'droop' to it.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I didn't expect him to come to any other conclusion. Since, by his own admission, he's partially sponsored by Bud's Guns, which will they be likely to sell more of, the Marlin 1895 or the mdl 89? Personally, I don't trust the strength of a 336 action in those large diameter cartridges. But, that's just my own bias speaking. YMMV.

I have the same feeling; seen too many kabooms and kaboom photos over the years, and I'd say 1/3rd have been Guide Guns - way higher a percentage of those than they represent of the guns out there. The 1886 or '1889' action seems far more appropriate for large-base cases....look at a cross-sectional diagram of the chamber, receiver, and magazine cutout in the 336 when chambered in 45-70, and it is downright scary.

....IMHO, of course.....

I'd have to agree. I think specifically the thin area where the mag tube relief cut occurs below the back of the chamber. That seems to be a common spot to let go.

[buckeyeshooter]

I didn't choose the 500 when I went the custom route. I went with the 510 diameter and 50 alaskan in the marlin and 50-110 in an 1886 winchester. I guess I am a tradionalist and old school. I can tell you that the 50 caliber works well on game. I can tell an advantage over the 45/70.

[Grizz]

Thanks for the info Harry . . . I don't run pressure that high in my marlins, but I could in the H&R single-shot and the Browning 1886.

That load would seem pretty tame at 1050 or 1100 fps. Still an express train.

Looking forward to your results going forward. Thanks.