New Winchester 25/35

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earlmck
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New Winchester 25/35

Post by earlmck »

My newly minted Winchester 1894 showed up here last week just in time for me to abandon it and go deer hunting with a couple old friends. I did get some stuff ordered (dies, brass) before I left so it arrived this week. Lee dies, real purty Hornady cases courtesy of Natchez Shooters Supply. Here's some of the brass with a couple of the likely bullets -- Hornady 117 gr. RN and Sierra 90 gr. BTHP
2535cases9421.jpg
Here's the rifle -- take away the scope bases and the towel it is resting on and it'd be about 7 1/2 pounds.
2535Win9404.jpg
2535butt9424.jpg
2535fore9425.jpg
2535receiver9427.jpg
This is the model with 24" half-round half-octagon barrel
2535bbl9426.jpg
More to report after I've done some shooting. Anyone had luck with cast bullets and the 25/35? And this 8" twist they are reported to have -- I was sceptical but yep, that's what it is.
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JerryB
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Re: New Winchester 25/35

Post by JerryB »

Earl, that is a good looking rifle. Years ago I owned an old Remington model 14 in 25 Remington, real pleasant caliber to shoot.
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Re: New Winchester 25/35

Post by AJMD429 »

Wow.....that's a beaut....!

Didn't think any new-mfg guns could be so appealing.
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GunnyMack
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Re: New Winchester 25/35

Post by GunnyMack »

Real nice lookin shootin iron! I'm very surprised at the wood, looks great!
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2ndovc
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Re: New Winchester 25/35

Post by 2ndovc »

Very nice. Can't wait to hear about how it shoots. I've been looking at those too.

jb 8)
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OldWin
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Re: New Winchester 25/35

Post by OldWin »

Looks nice. Surprised, and glad, they are chambering. 23-35. Never woulda thunkit.
Can't wait to see how it shoots.
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Bill in Oregon
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Re: New Winchester 25/35

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Earl, I see you have added another lovely lever gun to your collection. Congratulations on the chambering.
I plan to try the GS Custom monometal FP in my .25-35 Tomcat. I hear great things about this bullet in field use.

http://www.gscustomusa.com/orderfnusa.html
Last edited by Bill in Oregon on Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Pitchy
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Re: New Winchester 25/35

Post by Pitchy »

That`s a real beauty alright, congrats and good shootin. :)
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Rube Burrows
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Re: New Winchester 25/35

Post by Rube Burrows »

Beautiful rifle.
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Re: New Winchester 25/35

Post by ollogger »

That is a dandy looking gun!! ive not had success shooting cast bullets in the 25-35s or 250 savage ive tried
the bullets were just 85 gr, may be heavier would work better but never went there, have a few others I shoot cast in
the speer 75 gr. fp is a blast to shoot & takes a antelope slick & clean but it never dawned on me to try the 90 gr. sierra
in the 25-35, although I shoot it in a 250 - 3000 that has a slow twist & does well in it, so im gonna load some in the 25-35
and thanks for the tip!!


Brad
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earlmck
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Re: New Winchester 25/35

Post by earlmck »

ollogger wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:14 pm im gonna load some in the 25-35
and thanks for the tip!!

Brad
I don't know if it's a tip or not, Brad. I don't have many of those 117 round noses and I do have a couple boxes of the 90 Sierras (that I also use in the 14" twist 250 Savage). So it gives me something to play with in the new rifle.

My little bit of messin' around with the new baby has been verrry interesting. I loaded up a couple "ladders" using 4064 and LVR just to see how the velocities were running and if I hit any indications of "that's enough powder". These test loads were done with the left-over 25/35 cases I had from a (so far) failed try-out of a 22 hi-power, and using the 250 Savage dies to round-out the new necks and then seat bullets.

When I got back from that little test session my 25/35 dies and additional cases had showed up, so I made up some rounds (of mostly the Hornady 117's but a couple Sierra 90's) to shoot for sighting and and grouping. So now I used the 25/35 dies to round-out the new case necks and seat the bullets. This time the bullets seated easier (too easy I thought) so belatedly I miked the expanders to see what was going on. The 250 expander mikes .2555 and the new 25/35 miked .257 (or maybe .2568?) Anyway, a bit large for jacketed bullets though I will happily use it for the cast bullets most likely. Maybe should have pulled the bullets and re-done the necks but didn't really think it would make all that much difference and I was loading singly so didn't need to worry about the bullet slipping in the neck.

Would you believe... it looks like I got 100 to 150 fps lower velocities with the lesser neck tension? The LVR took the biggest hit but the 4064 took a big hit also. I'll have to re-do the shooting with proper neck tensions. But so far with those lower velocity loads I found that the new baby likes:
2535target26Lvr9409.jpg
2535target2640649411.jpg
And it really dislikes:
253527Lvr9410.jpg
.

I only had two loads with the 90 grain Sierra and these were both in the in-between category -- the "let's try again" category.

I put the neck expander from the 250 die in the 25/35 sizer (they are both Lee's) and produced another batch with better neck tension. Further report to come I'm sure.

Oh yeah, I meant to say that those are 50 yard groups so not nearly as satisfactory as if they'd been 100 yard groups. And so the 27/LVR was really bad
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Bill in Oregon
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Re: New Winchester 25/35

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Those two loads look promising. Eager to see how they perform with additional neck tension.
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264 Win Mag
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Re: New Winchester 25/35

Post by 264 Win Mag »

Promising looking groups. Very anxious to hear what you come up with the 117gr Hornady's as I have had little luck with them. I figured with the 1:8 twist they would be just the ticket for my rifle. I have never been able to get what I would call decent groups from the rifle but the most promising were with 80gr Ranch Dog cast using H4227.
Yours is a better looking rifle also. 8)

Thomas
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Re: New Winchester 25/35

Post by Old Savage »

Jeff Quinn has an article on Gunblast with the one I have. Very accurate.
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264 Win Mag
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Re: New Winchester 25/35

Post by 264 Win Mag »

Just bought some IMR4064 so will give it a try. Isn't it great to be able to go to the store and come back with what you went for? Some of my past threads for this rifle contained suggestions for bullets or powder I was unable to find. Also now have LVR and 2400 so will load up some 117gr Hornady's with all three powders and see what happens. This rifle has fought me more than any other rifle I have ever owned. Hoping to resolve my issues once and for all. Very interested to see what Earlmck comes up with and try it in my rifle.

Thomas
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earlmck
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Re: New Winchester 25/35

Post by earlmck »

I am badly remiss in my duties: I was going to spend some time with the new baby and make a proper report. Got out one time and the wind was blowing so hard it blew my chronograph over. I got just enough shooting done to find that what I thought was proper neck tension got me wider velocity deviation than the "too little" tension of the previous session. :?: :?:

Meanwhile I got my attention diverted by some elk hunting and (mostly) laying in the winter firewood. Sorry 'bout that, fellow levergunners -- I shall return.
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Shrapnel
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Re: New Winchester 25/35

Post by Shrapnel »

All the buzz on the internet about new cartridges and fast tist. The 25-35 is the Godfather of fast twist. The original 1/8 twist and it was developed in 1895. I have killed everything from Grizzly bears to gophers with a 25-35...

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264 Win Mag
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Re: New Winchester 25/35

Post by 264 Win Mag »

Impressive Shrapnel. My rifle is such a handy one if I can finally find a good load for it I think it would be just the ticket for the deer and hogs here in South Alabama. This rifle has fought me more than any other one I have owned.

Thomas
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earlmck
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Re: New Winchester 25/35

Post by earlmck »

Very impressive use of a 25/35, Shrapnel. And a nice looking one you have -- which of course you would. I had no idea the little cartridge might be grizzly medicine!

Somehow the 1:8 twist of these rifles had escaped my attention and it surprised me when I read about it (after I'd sent for this one). And then I had the thought that "I'll bet these newly manufactured things use a more normal 10" twist". But the cleaning rod makes almost 3 revolutions when putting a patch down the 24" barrel, so -- 8" it is. Nevertheless, on my windy outing last week I did appear to get 50 yard tin can plinking accuracy out of my little 70 grain 25/20 bullet with all three loads I tried.

And Thomas, what sort of loads have your used that are not working for you? Does your rifle have a good bore? I know I have never got very decent accuracy from my two 25 Remingtons, but they both have nasty looking bores. I think people used to think they didn't need to clean 22 rimfires or 25 cal. rifles -- they seem to me to have an abnormally dismal percentage of rasty-looking bores in the old 25 cals I have examined.

I went to a gun show a couple months ago and a fellow had several model 99 Savages at moderate price levels. His 303 Savage had a decent bore; his 300 Savage had a really clean bore; and two 25/35's (onto which I was ready to leap!) looked really nasty. And that is totally Par for my 25 cal. course.
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Shrapnel
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Re: New Winchester 25/35

Post by Shrapnel »

The only way to go is with the Hornady 117 grain round nose with IMR 3031 with around 24 grains. It is real hard on the liver...

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Bill in Oregon
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Re: New Winchester 25/35

Post by Bill in Oregon »

The performance of the 117-RN seems to be a case of performing beyond the paper ballistics, according to many who have used it. Francis Sell sure liked it for supplying blacktail meat to the Oregon coast logging camps between the wars. Oddly, the Hodgdon data site does not list a load for 3031 with the 117, nor do they list a load with LeveRevolution. But they do show 2404 fps with 28.5 of the new CFE 223.
Earl, hope you get that elk!
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264 Win Mag
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Re: New Winchester 25/35

Post by 264 Win Mag »

earlmck wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:05 pm

And Thomas, what sort of loads have your used that are not working for you? Does your rifle have a good bore? I know I have never got very decent accuracy from my two 25 Remingtons, but they both have nasty looking bores. I think people used to think they didn't need to clean 22 rimfires or 25 cal. rifles -- they seem to me to have an abnormally dismal percentage of rasty-looking bores in the old 25 cals I have examined.
Earlmck,
Had too many loads both cast and jacketed that went wrong to list. My best load with the 117 Hornady was 23 grains of H335 which hit 1.65" at 75 yards. Best cast loads were with the 80gr Ranch Dog and Alliant 2400 and Green Dot. Both powders gave 60 yard groups in the 1.4" range.
The rifle by the way was a bought new Winchester Trails End Hunter and has a brite bore. Have changed the scope base, scope rings, and for good measure the scope!
Tell me if I'm wrong but I think a scoped rifle should do better than an inch and a half at 60 yards from a bench.

Thomas
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