Gas checks on a plain base bullet

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earlmck
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Gas checks on a plain base bullet

Post by earlmck »

The mould I use for .357 is a 4-cavity LBT that throws two gas-check bullets and two plain base.
AlGcCustomer9395.jpg

That was a dumb idea (that two and two mould) because when a fellow sets out to cast .357 bullets you either want a bunch of the plain-base ones (I like 'em in the revolver) or you want a bunch of the gas-check ones for stepping right along out of the levergun). So with my two/two 4-cavity I not only spend twice the amount of time I should, I also end up with a raft of bullets of the style I wasn't really needing too bad at the present time, and for the past several years my gas-checked use has been much greater than my plain-base use. A couple of weeks ago I bought these beauties -- made from aluminum pop cans and designed to go on plain-base bullets.
AlGc9394.jpg
Here is a selection showing off their purty buns, with a regular gas-checked one in the middle for comparison.
DSC_9391.JPG
I have great hopes that the pop-can checked bullets will perform on a par with the regular checked ones. Test to come -- maybe tomorrow, but for sure by next Tuesday. Report will follow.
Yeah-- who'd have thought you could put a gas check on a plain-based bullet?
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Tanqueray
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Re: Gas checks on a plain base bullet

Post by Tanqueray »

That's a pretty neat and thrifty way to revive an otherwise unused mold. I assume the sizing due just pushes them into the lead seeing as the base isn't rebated, I wonder if they'd still work on a harder alloy/hard cast bullet?
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marlinman93
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Re: Gas checks on a plain base bullet

Post by marlinman93 »

I'd guess that the process is basically swaging the gas check to the plain base bullet, so they should be better than gas check type bullets. At least they wont ever be loose!
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Bill in Oregon
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Re: Gas checks on a plain base bullet

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Those are humdingers, Earl. Eager to hear how they perform. That's a great idea using pop can material.
Chuck 100 yd
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Re: Gas checks on a plain base bullet

Post by Chuck 100 yd »

Guys have been experimenting with that system for a couple decades or more. I haven't heard anything negative about them. Old threads over on castbullets forum might be worth reading. Have fun!!!

You can buy dies to make them yourself. Or at least they were available a couple years back.
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ollogger
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Re: Gas checks on a plain base bullet

Post by ollogger »

Neat idea, have read about them, so waiting to hear how ya like them




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earlmck
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Re: Gas checks on a plain base bullet

Post by earlmck »

Of course I heard about these over on the "castboolits" forum, and got these from n.h.Schmidt who advertises as a "Vendor/Sponsor" under "gas checks" there.
These bullets are water-dropped wheelweight, so fairly hard. I applied them using the Star sizer which makes gas-checking quite a lot easier than on a Lyman. I think I'd have to expand/flare these checks a bit if I had to use the Lyman sizer and maybe hone out a little more taper/leade in the mouth of the sizer die.

As far as figuring out how well they work by reading about them on the "castboolits" forum? Good idea in theory but that forum has more chaff per kernel of wheat than any other site I visit. It does provide a fair bit of entertainment on occasion, though.
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EdinCT
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Re: Gas checks on a plain base bullet

Post by EdinCT »

Earl I tried them for the 38WCF and the Gould 330 in the 45/70. The 38WCF worked well and the Gould need more dia. so powder coating fixed that issue. Looking forward to a range report.
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earlmck
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Re: Gas checks on a plain base bullet

Post by earlmck »

I got out today for a little shooting -- beautiful cloudy-bright lighting, though the "cloudy" was produced by smoke from the big fire burning up in the Columbia River Gorge north of here.
Here was 10 shots with the pop-can gas checked bullets (circled); the other holes were some earlier sighting shots.
gcPB9398.jpg
Then here were 10 shots with the regular gas checked bullet with Hornady check (the circled holes at top of target).
gcRegnSighters9397.jpg
Approximately the same level of mediocrity I'd judge, and the groups are pretty much in the same part of the target. I adjusted the sights to lower the group and bring it a bit to the right and then shot the bottom 6 shots, 3 shots with regular gc and 3 with pop-can gc. They group together well enough I judge that I can pretty much use the bullets interchangeably. I don't know why the unimpressive showing: this load with regular gas-checked bullet normally shoots a pretty nice group: either I was having a bad day or the rifle was having a bad day.

The old Ruger revolver has always shot the plain-based bullets just as well as the gas checked (at least that is what I found when I experimented years ago). So thought I'd give it a try since I was messing around. The two circled upper groups are with the plain-based bullet, one medium-warn load that has been my standard load for 25 years and one mild load. They made about 1 1/4 to 1 1/2" groups, which I was assuming was about what these old eyeballs were capable of doing. Then I picked a new sighting point and shot the bottom left group that went into 3/4" with the pop-can gas checked bullet. Hey, I think the old Ruger likes the pop can treatment!
gcnPBinRevolver9396.jpg
I am going to declare the pop-can gas checks on the plain based bullet a success at this point.
Oh yes, a post-script here -- I had forgot to mention distance. The rifle was shot at about 65 yards and the pistol at about 20 yards. My usual shooting spot was occupied by folks out sighting in deer rifles, so I got chased off to a spot with a bunch of grass and brush so had a hard time getting a clear spot to put up the targets. Thus the odd yardages.
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Bill in Oregon
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Re: Gas checks on a plain base bullet

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Earl, that Ruger group is a real dandy. What was your estimated velocity?
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ollogger
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Re: Gas checks on a plain base bullet

Post by ollogger »

Thanks a lot Earl!! going to have to look for some of them for a 357 & 45



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earlmck
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Re: Gas checks on a plain base bullet

Post by earlmck »

Bill in Oregon wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:56 am Earl, that Ruger group is a real dandy. What was your estimated velocity?
My notes show that running 1150 fps when I chrono'd it many years ago. Chrono battery had died so I didn't get any updates yesterday like I'd planned. Somebody (surely couldn't have been me) left the chrono turned on when he put it away last time and battery was totally gone.

I think the ruger group had to be some kind of a fluke -- I am sure that as blurry as everything is through my old eyes that I can't really hold that tight a group at any range with open sights.

ollogger wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:35 am Thanks a lot Earl!! going to have to look for some of them for a 357 & 45

Brad
I ordered more from him yesterday -- sounds like I might have got the last of his .30 cals but he still had plenty of 38's, 40's, and .45. I might like to try some on a 44 cal but Mr. Schmidt doesn't have those at this time. $16/bag of 38 and 40 and $18 for 45 with free shipping -- I wouldn't want to try making them for that!
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JimT
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Re: Gas checks on a plain base bullet

Post by JimT »

Paco Kelly and Ed Wosika developed gas checks for plain base cast bullets back in the 1980's. I used them for years .. still have the dies to make them. Paco and I wrote them up for some of the gun rags that were out at that time ... and for The Cast Bullet Association etc.

In the articles section of Leverguns there is an old article of mine on the Freechek Tool. It includes the plain base gascheck.
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earlmck
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Re: Gas checks on a plain base bullet

Post by earlmck »

Guess that makes me late to the party. Verrry late to the party. Not the first time, either. :oops:
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JimT
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Re: Gas checks on a plain base bullet

Post by JimT »

earlmck wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:01 pm Guess that makes me late to the party. Verrry late to the party. Not the first time, either. :oops:
Ha! Me too. Story of my life!
No need to worry though ... discovering something for yourself is WAY better than never tinkering ... or just reading about it.
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