Winchester 94...

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gcs
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Winchester 94...

Post by gcs »

Right now I'm shooting a 336 30-30, and have been happy with it, but over at the Marlin site I've been reading about the 32 special round and now I have it in my head I should have one of those, not that I NEED another gun.

Last time I was at my camp I stopped at a local gun shop and they had 4 32sp on the rack, all 94's with Lyman peeps, and the prices were within reason. Now I tried out a early 70's 94 when I bought the 336, and frankly didn't think much of it at all, but with some advice over at Marlins, I'm reconsidering as all the 94 32 sp. are pre 64 which is apparently a different critter. As most guys here are more of a Winchester crowd, anything you can add about the pre 64 94's, what you like, any models to consider, what to look out for, etc, would be appreciated.
My thoughts would be using the 94 as my walking around gun with the peep, and putting a scope on the 336 for evening sessions on stand. Thanks.
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FWiedner
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Re: Winchester 94...

Post by FWiedner »

I did about the same thing.

I've got one of each, a Marlin 336ER and a Winchester 94AE in .356Win.

I hunted with a 336ER for 20 years. It's an excellent firearm, but... heavy. My arms were achin' by the end of a day of still hunting.

I purchased a Model 94AE and there was such a vast difference in weight and the way it handled that I decided that the Model 94 would become the walking around for hours with iron sights model, and the 336 became the sit in the stand with a scope rifle.

In my case, and as luck would have it, they shoot exactly the same so there isn't even a need to carry a different load just because I'm carrying the other rifle.

:)
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Griff
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Re: Winchester 94...

Post by Griff »

While my personal preference IS for a post '64 version, specifically the post '75 ones, the differences between pre '64 versions of the mdl 94, 64 & 55 are in the basic configuration of the mdl. The mdls 55 is a carbine & button or half mag, the magazine ending at about the end of the forend. The 64 is a "rifle" and came in either 20" 22" or 26" round barrels. It has what I refer to as a ¾ magazine, ending about halfway between the forend and barrel muzzle, I believe it also always came in a pistol grip version (could be wrong, if so, someone will surely correct me). The 94 could be either "rifle" or "carbine", the differences are glaringly different in details. All were built with the same receiver (tho' early mdl 55s had their own marking, and all mdl 64s do. Many refer to them all as 94s... tho' they have some huge differences in collectability. They all use the flat mainspring & stirrup equipped hammer. I'm not sure exactly when they changed to the checkered flat steel buttplate, but it is my least favored version.

The mdl 64 is often referred to as the "deer-hunters" model, it has a thicker forend than the standard mdl 94, either rifle or carbine, and usually has a carbine style buttplate.

Frankly, the preferences for a pre-'64 are usually based in some form of snobbery. Unless one is a collector of unique, factory custom featured models; by the time of the change in metallurgy, pin and spring types introduced with the post-'64, the factory would rarely entertain a custom order. Remember, they aren't making ANY MORE of either.

I have both pre- and post- '64s, good examples and rather poor ones in both ranges. The last of the pre-'64 were serial numbered around 2,85x,xxx and the post-'64 began at 2.7million, ending around 5 million I believe.

I believe they only started drilling and tapping the receiver for a receiver peep in 1953, prior to that, they were only drilled & tapped for a tang mounted peep sight. And even that had stopped sometime prior. My '50 is not d&t'd for either. Both my '29 and '30 are ready for a tang sight. I find the "rifle" buttplate to be especially good when dressed for cooler weather, and the early curved, slightly wider carbine buttplate is also comfortable right up into hot, t-shirt weather. The flat, checkered steel, not so much.

IIRC, the 32 Winchester Special was offered in them all. The mdl 64s in that chambering are very collectible.
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Pete44ru
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Re: Winchester 94...

Post by Pete44ru »

.

FWIW, the Winchester Models 55, 64, & 94 are exactly the same gun, in different barrel, magazine & stock configurations.

Most of the Model 94's are 20" barreled Carbine's (model).

By all means, buy the one that catches your eye, as to fit/finish, etc.

When I couldn't find an affordable M.32 Special Model 64, I bought what amounted to the same thing, at half the cost - a 1981 Winchester 94 .32 Special Canadian Pacific Railway Centennial commemorative.


Image


I felt it cost a pittance for high-grade wood, the same 2/3 magazine, 24" barrel and an engraved receiver (to fondle during those times game isn't moving), like a Custom Shop Model 55 (or, a Model 64 with a straight-grip buttstock).


.
1894c

Re: Winchester 94...

Post by 1894c »

There is a pre-64 Winchester 94 in .32 Special in a pawn shop near me. If you want I can get some iPhone pics and find out how much, it's been there for about 4 months... :)
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Carlsen Highway
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Re: Winchester 94...

Post by Carlsen Highway »

You guys are lucky, I have never seen one in .32 over here. As to pre and post 64, I have had both, and frankly there is not so much difference between them that the pre64's are worth as much of a premium as many people seem to want. My favourite Winchester 94's are the 1970's ones - it seems to be a very good vintage for them I think. And they are cheap. Or used to be. (But I wish - I wish Winchester had beveled the bottom of the receiver like they had on the pre-64. I wish they did that. It makes a difference when you carry them all day.)
Regardless of when they were made I have to check that they lock up tight, are not too loose and rattly, and the lever wont drop down if you give it a sudden shake. I won't buy them off the internet any more.

Marlins I havn't had much to do with. I have used and hunted with one in .35 Rem but it seemed to weigh as much as a scoped bolt action, the stock was thick and clubby, the actions screws kept unwinding themselves, the lever throw went back too far, and I couldnt get the thing to shoot in the same place from one day to the next. It probably wasn't a good example. I do admire the ones with a straight stock, but then, thats probably because they look more like Winchesters :mrgreen:
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HawkCreek
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Re: Winchester 94...

Post by HawkCreek »

I'll probably get some flack for this but concerning the Winchester 94's I actually prefer them to come from the '82-'92 era. 1982 is when they dumped the sintered metal in the receiver, this is also when the AE was introduced. The AE I could live without but it doesnt bother me, it is what it is. But it wasn't until '92 when they added the ugly button safety, those I can not stand! Nothing at all wrong with the other years, if I could afford to collect pre 64's I would but I tend to use my guns and something they get used hard. I dont want to bang up a collector so I go for the years listed above. Not that it matters anymore, even the less desirable year model 94 are jumping up in price.
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Carlsen Highway
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Re: Winchester 94...

Post by Carlsen Highway »

I dont like the chromed receivers from the late 60's or so, that just flake off, but the '70's receivers that they put a iron plating over and then blued do not bother me. , It just means you cant reblue a worn reciever...but I like a .30-30 that looks like its done something in its time....

Yeah, even normal 94's are getting priced expensive, people who dont know what a pre'64 is, have somehow absorbed the news that all 94's are collectable now apparently. To someone. Same with Winchester 92's, even ones that looked like they have been dragged behind a truck for a hundred miles.

It's enough to drive me to Marlins. At least I can afford to buy a Marlin every now and then.
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fordwannabe
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Re: Winchester 94...

Post by fordwannabe »

I have a few Winchesters, 3 1886s and a couple 92s, half dozen 1894s, but the price is getting ridiculous so I have way more Marlins now.
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tman
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Re: Winchester 94...

Post by tman »

Older I get the more I appreciate the size and weight of the model 94 Winchester. Mine is also in the extremely UNDERATED .356 WCF, perhaps the best and most useful cartridge ever chambered in a 94 :D .
gcs
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Re: Winchester 94...

Post by gcs »

I want to thank everyone that responded, it's been helpful.
I'll go looking next trip up, I don't care about any "collectors" value, just a decent using gun. I see the auction sites have pre 64 94's values at absurd levels, don't notice very many SELLING at those prices though. I'll even entertain a later model in 30-30 if needed, easier on the ammo supply anyway. So thanks again... :mrgreen:
Pete, that is a pretty rifle!!!
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J Miller
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Re: Winchester 94...

Post by J Miller »

gcs wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:08 pm I want to thank everyone that responded, it's been helpful.
I'll go looking next trip up, I don't care about any "collectors" value, just a decent using gun. I see the auction sites have pre 64 94's values at absurd levels, don't notice very many SELLING at those prices though. I'll even entertain a later model in 30-30 if needed, easier on the ammo supply anyway. So thanks again... :mrgreen:
Pete, that is a pretty rifle!!!
gcs,

In 1980 I traded for a 1980 Vintage Trapper 30-30. I still have it and although it does look like it's been used a bit, it's still in nice shape. I've had 94s from the early 1900s to 1985 and for the most part I like them all.

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Lastmohecken
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Re: Winchester 94...

Post by Lastmohecken »

I have owned several and still do own several Pre-64's and I have several post 64's made in the late 60's and also the 70's, and I have also owned the angle eject's both pre-safety and post safety. All were serviceable but my favorites are the pre-64 models, they had better open rear sights, than the post 64's which were more fragile and often seemed to mounted crooked on lots of guns. And to me the pre-64's feel more solid in the hand, then the later models.

On the post 64's, I have a few commemorative models, Legendary Lawmen Trapper length carbine, and a Antlered Game 20 inch, and a Buffalo Bill 24" rifle, with octagon barrel. The Lawmen is unfired and I have the box for it, but I did mount a Williams receiver sight on it, because the rear sight was broken when I got it. The others were shooters when I got them.

I have one pre-1898 30WCF round barrel, 24" length I think, that I still hunt with some. I have taken deer with it. I works as good as it probably did when new. I did have to replace the magazine spring in it when I got it, before it was reliable, but that fixed it.

My very favorite one and likely my most accurate one, is a nice flatband 30/30 from the late 40's.

I like them all more or less, but the pre-64's (the nice ones) are my favorite, and there is a reason they cost more, because they are worth it. I would be very surprised if someone was to put a post 64 vs. pre-64 in my hands, with me blind folded and I wouldn't be able to tell the difference, still yet, I wouldn't pay the stupid high prices some traders are trying to extract from people at some of the gun shows for them. I am not a collector, I just love to own and shoot a few of them on occasion.
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Carlsen Highway
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Re: Winchester 94...

Post by Carlsen Highway »

I can tell a pre'64 and a post 64 rifle blindfolded. I would kill to to have my 1952 carbine back again, if it wasn't family.
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Re: Winchester 94...

Post by missionary5155 »

Greetings
First Caliber... Have shot all sorts of critters with 30-30 and 32 Win Special. Same weight / type bullet hit in the same spot, direction and range you cannot tell any difference. I just like the caliber 32 as it was my first center fire caliber.

The post 64's receivers were made of that "other metal" and the nasty stuff is going to not hold the "blueing". Stuff flakes off and looks horrid. Only thing I have tried that will last is the bake on finishes. The barrels are good and shoot well though. Happily some post 64's that are not pristine are still available in "used" condition for good price. Last one we bought was painted flat black and bought for $200. Another candidate for JES Reboring.
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Daisyman
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Re: Winchester 94...

Post by Daisyman »

I believe one of the complaints about the post 64 models, as least ones made circa 1972, was the shell lifter was made out of a piece of flat sheet metal as opposed to a forged one. Whether they actually didn't work as well, I don't know, but the pre 64 guys wasn't having none of it!! :o ("cheap stamping, what were they thinkin"). I certainly know as the end was near for Winchester, the stock fit to the frame was getting deplorable. I've held several of the up to the light at a gun show, and you could look straight through them from the side! :roll: Maybe the old equipment was just getting tired, I don't know. I DO have a legacy 26 round bbl that was made after 1997 and the fit of it is perfect, and it has the old style lifter.

Irv
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