44-40

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Old Savage
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44-40

Post by Old Savage »

Ollogger expresses frustration at his New Frontier in 44-40. I never worked with one. Reading Ken Waters it appears he found a Colt finicky too.

Question then, who has had success?
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M. M. Wright
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Re: 44-40

Post by M. M. Wright »

Me! I have at least 6 44-40 Colts, most I have tuned but some of the old 1st gens are left stock. I mostly shoot ffg in starline cases. Winchester brass works too but Remington are just too thick to chamber when loaded with the .429 bullet that I favor because of my Uberti 73s bore size. Not that I haven't had any troubles but those were overcome years ago. I load on a Dillon 550 and use a powder measure modified with a piece of exhaust pipe replacing the plastic cylinder. I use a couple of grains less than full charge and put a Circle Fly wad over the powder before seating the bullet. The last hole houses the Lee factory crimp die. A couple of my 3rd gens have cylinders rechambered from .357. One worked fine as it came from Alan Harton and the other I reamed a little with my 44-40 reamer to give it the same chamber as the others as it was a bit tighter.

Once I bought a Colt SAA from a lady who had ordered it from the Custom Shop, full blue/ivory in 44-40. I was the first to shoot it and the empties wouldn't extract so I returned it to Colt who put in a new cylinder and bolt. NC It has worked perfectly since.
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That front one is from 1894.
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Old Savage
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Re: 44-40

Post by Old Savage »

And with smokeless?
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Re: 44-40

Post by ollogger »

Sure is a nice looking family you have :mrgreen:





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Re: 44-40

Post by Sixgun »

MM......nice looking "heat" you have there....I see all are the gunfighters length! :D


It's pretty much a hit or miss with the 44 wcf....in any generation...concerning Colts...forget Rugers...that's another story. Later third gens have the groove diameters of .428 (at least mine do) and throats running up to 432. My 44 Spl. And 44-40 New Frontiers both have extra fitted cylinders for 44-40 and 44 Spl. and as these cylinders are Colt, throats are large. I find using 250 gr. swc's with full diameter driving bands in both the 44-40 and Spl. helps accuracy as the longer bullet stays true upon entering the forcing cone.

It would take an evening of writing but to make a long story short, take measurements of the throats and the barrel groove diameters, size the bullets appropriately and match the alloy to the velocity you are using. As Elmer Keith used to say, "the true test of accuracy is at long range". I prefer a minimum of 200 meters.---6
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Old Savage
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Re: 44-40

Post by Old Savage »

Throw that 44-40 cylinder in the river and get one for a 44 Spl.

On second thought, send it to me, I will use it as a paper weight.
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Re: 44-40

Post by ollogger »

Fred am to dang stubborn to do that
my bore is around 429 the way I measure after slugging ( 2 times) a 430 Hornady bullet slides through the cyl.
I have to size any bullet 427 & put a healthy Lee factory crimp on it to get it to chamber with any brass I have
if I get a bunch to chamber the dang thing really shoots, I need to know what the throats should measure so the dang thing will swallow a pill, Six gun says some measure up to 432, is that bout standard?



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Re: 44-40

Post by Lefty Dude »

I have loaded 44WCF for my Custom shop Colts. It is all in the reloading dies, and the expansion plug you use. I use RCBS Cowboy dies. The RCBS Cowboy dies are made for loading lead bullets. Lee dies and many others are made for jacketed bullet loading. Some 44WCF dies set the shoulder back and limit the seating depth.
I had one 44WCF piece I had problems getting the reloads to chamber properly. I used a Lyman "M" for expansion, and older RCBS sizing die for the re-size, and my RCBS Cowboy die for the Seating. I crimp with a LEE FCD.
I use only Starline Brass for 44WCF reloading.
Size your bullets to the Cylinder throats, .001" over, don't worry about the bore. All so have your forcing cone cut to eleven degrees. If the bore is larger than the throats. Open up throats with a throating reamer.
I shoot .429"-.430" sized cast bullets in my 44WCF Colts. My bores are .428".
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Old Savage
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Re: 44-40

Post by Old Savage »

OK there Logger, keep that cylinder so that you have a 44-40 but take the Dirty Harry approach who said he shot a light Spl for better accuracy. I have 4 Specials that shoot fine with a variety of loads and are very easy to load for. Wonder if it is possible to get a .44 Special cylinder for a New Frontier.
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Re: 44-40

Post by M. M. Wright »

Old Savage,
My smokeless load is 5.5 of 238 and the same 200 grain RNFP. Keep in mind that I am using .429 bullets, the bore size of most modern 44s. If you want to shoot 44 Special just send a .357 cylinder and your gun to Alan Harton and he'll rechamber the cylinder and fit it to your pistola. Or he used to anyway.

Using .427 bullets solves the chambering problem but accuracy suffers in my 73. If you're not shooting Cass it might not matter to you. Originally I thought that the problem was only with the early first gen Colts but 3rds have the same problem. The chambers are just cut for .427 bullets, or smaller but the barrels are .428 or .429 on the post war ones. I'm guessing that Colt started making their barrels for 44 Special and just used the same ones for 44-40. Remember almost no 2nd gen 44-40s. 100 I think? All 7 1/2" nickel commemoratives.

A few years back I shot 6 stages at Landrun with that 1894 and the one across from it, mfg. 1907, loaded with black. After the fourth stage I spritzed them with Ballistol and finished the day with no problems. Twas a great day.
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Re: 44-40

Post by hfcable »

Old Savage wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:00 am OK there Logger, keep that cylinder so that you have a 44-40 but take the Dirty Harry approach who said he shot a light Spl for better accuracy. I have 4 Specials that shoot fine with a variety of loads and are very easy to load for. Wonder if it is possible to get a .44 Special cylinder for a New Frontier.
they show up on ebay and gunbroker, and usually only require a little fitting. I have added 44 special cylinders to my 44/40 new frontier and 44/40 cylinders to my 44 specials.. kinda handy to have.
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Re: 44-40

Post by ollogger »

44 spl. is not a option as I am not getting into loading another cartridge, all my 44 mag stuff went years ago, it is the cylinder
as ive tried different dies brass bullets & even things I wont talk about in public, a bud has the tools to make it right but
just hacks me off that a gun mfg. such as colt would let a gun like that out the door, it was unfired when I picked it up a couple years ago & was made in 1977



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Re: 44-40

Post by Old Savage »

Here is the point/s, the attraction is nostalgia. But a cylinder mouth smaller than the barrel, which by the way is the wrong size for 44-40 is a recipe for inaccuracy. A barrel change to the correct size or a cylinder change is in order. Or forget how it shoots and revel in nostalgia although, it is just at a replica. I chase accuracy in any gun. I do not like to see a friend frustrated by a deck stacked against him or her. I notice we are not seeing any targets.
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Re: 44-40

Post by ollogger »

Fred, for me it shoots pretty good at 50 yards & even better at 20 :D if on the rare day with no wind 200 yard gong ( 20 in.)
can be hit with ease, like the adj. sights on the NF, helps a lot, funny thing I shot some round balls in it & they shot very well
and chambered with ease, cant recall what I sized them to but had ignition problems with them, any help on that would be welcomed also, I wouldn't be opposed to just shooting RB if I could get a good bang every time, think I used tite group & 700 x



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Re: 44-40

Post by Old Savage »

Better than it sounded, good.
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Re: 44-40

Post by M. M. Wright »

Someone mentioned expander plug and I realized I'd forgotten to mention that I use the expander from 44 Spec/Mag. Which is correct for .429 bullets.

I do, (on the guns I shoot a lot) open the throats to .430-.431 and touch up the forcing cones. I really need to shoot some groups.
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