Hornady .458 350grn heads
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Hornady .458 350grn heads
Hope some can assist with this. I've been reloading for a while on file calibres but new to lever actions. I have bought a Chiappa Kodiak .45-70 guide gun which is fab. I have been loading 405grn cast bullets for a while and am looking at working up some jacketed ones.
As a first try I loaded up some dummy rounds using Hornady interlock 350grn flatpoint (item #4503). However when I made some test loads up to the normal length - 2.550" the round struggles to chamber and requires a fair old shove to close the action. However this causes the bullet to be pushed into the case. Unless the round is loaded to no more than 2.5" it won't chamber properly.
What seems to be happening is that the rifling starts at the lip where the case indexes (I know the rim does but you get what I mean) on without any gap. The bullet itself is pretty straight until about 5mm from the front. This means that the width of the bullet is such that when the round is chambered it seems to engage the rifling before the round is fully seated, pushing it back.
Is anyone aware of this as a known issue? While I have no problem having a shorter round, the pressure will of course go up and I need to therefore drop the powder charge. Assuming that this is safe (can't see why it wouldn't be) can anyone assist with a lower charge that I could use with a shorted COL or is this head not suitable for the gun? Either way, do you recommend a jacketed round that would work? I'm leaning towards the 325 Hornady FTX loads if not
Nathan
As a first try I loaded up some dummy rounds using Hornady interlock 350grn flatpoint (item #4503). However when I made some test loads up to the normal length - 2.550" the round struggles to chamber and requires a fair old shove to close the action. However this causes the bullet to be pushed into the case. Unless the round is loaded to no more than 2.5" it won't chamber properly.
What seems to be happening is that the rifling starts at the lip where the case indexes (I know the rim does but you get what I mean) on without any gap. The bullet itself is pretty straight until about 5mm from the front. This means that the width of the bullet is such that when the round is chambered it seems to engage the rifling before the round is fully seated, pushing it back.
Is anyone aware of this as a known issue? While I have no problem having a shorter round, the pressure will of course go up and I need to therefore drop the powder charge. Assuming that this is safe (can't see why it wouldn't be) can anyone assist with a lower charge that I could use with a shorted COL or is this head not suitable for the gun? Either way, do you recommend a jacketed round that would work? I'm leaning towards the 325 Hornady FTX loads if not
Nathan
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Re: Hornady .458 350grn heads
Nathan, it sounds like your Chiappa has little or no throat. I gunsmith with a throating reamer could fix this with a few turns of the reamer and you would be able to load more bullet shapes -- and at lower pressure.
And by the way, welcome to the forum!
And by the way, welcome to the forum!
- wvfarrier
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Re: Hornady .458 350grn heads
^^^^ what he said. Had the same issue with a henry
A bondservant of our Lord, Christ Jesus
Re: Hornady .458 350grn heads
Welcome to the forum. Yes, it does sound as if you need the throat reamed out on that rifle. The rifling is starting too soon.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
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Re: Hornady .458 350grn heads
Good morning
Another vote for throating that barrel. I would put together a dummy round using a 400 grainer and use that as the guide. Then you are set to hunt really big critters.
If you throat for a 350 you will be doing it again in the future if you want a heavy thumper.
Remember the 45-70 was originally made for 500 grainers. Most never shoot those anymore due to our use of smokeless loads at 40%+ more velocity with jacketed things.
But a 400 grainer at about 1800 fps will take care of any nasty bitty critter we will ever see. Provided it is not attacking us from ambush.
Mike in Peru
Another vote for throating that barrel. I would put together a dummy round using a 400 grainer and use that as the guide. Then you are set to hunt really big critters.
If you throat for a 350 you will be doing it again in the future if you want a heavy thumper.
Remember the 45-70 was originally made for 500 grainers. Most never shoot those anymore due to our use of smokeless loads at 40%+ more velocity with jacketed things.
But a 400 grainer at about 1800 fps will take care of any nasty bitty critter we will ever see. Provided it is not attacking us from ambush.
Mike in Peru
A sinner saved by FAITH in the Blood of Jesus Christ &teaching God´s Word in Peru. John 3:36
Tanker 71-74 NRA Life Ready to Defend the Constitution from enemies within and without.
Tanker 71-74 NRA Life Ready to Defend the Constitution from enemies within and without.
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Re: Hornady .458 350grn heads
Again...
If you want an instant solution... Shorten some split neck brass so you can get shooting. You will have to do the trial and error route. You may have to go .010 = - some.
Start with just one and get your length. When the bullet is just bumping the rifling shorten another .005. You want just a little open space so that jacket thing can get going. For cast I would not as that is a whole new world of fun.
Mike in Peru
If you want an instant solution... Shorten some split neck brass so you can get shooting. You will have to do the trial and error route. You may have to go .010 = - some.
Start with just one and get your length. When the bullet is just bumping the rifling shorten another .005. You want just a little open space so that jacket thing can get going. For cast I would not as that is a whole new world of fun.
Mike in Peru
A sinner saved by FAITH in the Blood of Jesus Christ &teaching God´s Word in Peru. John 3:36
Tanker 71-74 NRA Life Ready to Defend the Constitution from enemies within and without.
Tanker 71-74 NRA Life Ready to Defend the Constitution from enemies within and without.
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Re: Hornady .458 350grn heads
Pretty much agree with others as to a throating reamer. The problem is the SAAMI spec which calls for very little leade (the taper from chamber dimension to the barrel dimension). American manufacturers have over time become a little more lax and made the dimensions more compatible with the components commonly used. Unfortunately, pretty much all manufacturers outside the US follow SAAMI to a tee. Not only does that cause issues such as yours but also possible problems with the groove dimension. SAAMI calls for .456". I was attempting to make some mono solids for a Kodiak and found that the groove was closer to .455. With some squishy lead in the middle, not too bad of a issue but with mono metal and dimensioned to .458, the pressures will go soaring. Too bad SAAMI won't join the 20th century (let alone the 21st).
Re: Hornady .458 350grn heads
Thanks for all the replies. Thought that might be the problem but didn't realise that what seems a simple solution was available
Leverluver- from what you're saying does that mean it might be unwise to use jacketed ammunition in the Kodiak? If I'm to check the internal diameter of the barrel groove peak to peak and trough to trough what would be safe if I'm going to use jacketed to avoid dangerous pressure levels?
Leverluver- from what you're saying does that mean it might be unwise to use jacketed ammunition in the Kodiak? If I'm to check the internal diameter of the barrel groove peak to peak and trough to trough what would be safe if I'm going to use jacketed to avoid dangerous pressure levels?
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Re: Hornady .458 350grn heads
I don't think that conventional bullets (jacketed with lead core) would be any issue. I would go carefully if they were mono or semi-mono unless the bullets were specifically dimensioned for the barrel. I did not have the gun myself so was not able to pressure test it (and doubt that the customer would allow his rifle to be disfigured to do so). Before I would sell the customer mono solids, I required that he send barrel slugs so I could measure them myself. From what I gather, the Kodiak prefers loads less than the absolute max that some manuals print or some manufacturers load to. Therein lies some cushion for any slight pressure increase due to the smaller barrel dimension. Believe me, a 85% of max load will stomp on both ends. There is no real need to go to 100% max load. I'm certain that any warranty from Kodiak would be out the window if you did. And in general, break open doubles (any doubles) prefer more sedate pressures.