Pedersoli's petite derringers

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Naphtali
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Pedersoli's petite derringers

#1 Post by Naphtali » Tue May 09, 2017 12:19 pm

Pedersoli manufactures two derringers, Philadelphia (near copy of the Lincoln assassination pistol) and Liège. Both pistols are percussion cap lock single shot. Both shoot .452-inch projectiles. The Philadelphia derringer is a muzzleloader. The Liège is a screw barrel "breechloader."

Anyone who owns and shoots either, anyone who has shot one a bit - please describe their shooting quality and lawyer-independent power.
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Ray
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Re: Pedersoli's petite derringers

#2 Post by Ray » Tue May 09, 2017 6:50 pm

Mister Cumpston tested a jukar built and C.V.A. marketed "philadelphia" derringer with a .440" patched ball with a lubed "wonder wad" over 30 gr. of goex fffg at 419 fps. and 30 gr. swiss at 579 fps. He said the pedersoli product had better wood and much higher attention to detail in assembly...

As for the screw barrel pistol, the patent chamber held 9 gr. of unspecified fffg and with a naked .451" ball got 365 fps. and would smartly penetrate a 3/4" pine board....

I personally load my screw barrel from the front with either a patched .440" ball or a 7/16" steel bearing ball over 18 to 20 gr. fffg or pyrodex p ....
I accomplish this by short seating the ball with the gun assembled to allow a powder space then doff the barrel and throw two patent chamber full of powder behind the ball for a total of approximately 18 gr. then screw barrel back on and then completely seat the ball.....

the other way I load is to throw approximately 20 gr. of fffg or pyro. p powder from a spent .40 s & w. case used as a measure into the assembled gun then the patched ball, steel or lead, in the conventional front loading style....

No chrono data for my loading technique....I simply lack the courage to shoot a sightless derringer at my electronics.....
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Ray
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Re: Pedersoli's petite derringers

#3 Post by Ray » Tue May 09, 2017 6:58 pm

B.T.W. Dr. Fadala uses his screw barrel sans barrel in the dark for # 10 & 11 cap perfomance and quality sample testing....
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Re: Pedersoli's petite derringers

#4 Post by Ray » Wed May 10, 2017 10:04 pm

2010-02-08_22-00-33-1100x900.jpg
shows patent chamber where you fill to top with powder before balancing .451" to .454" ball prior to screwing-on barrel.....with the smaller ball can be tightened with fingers.....larger ball the tool in inserted in the barrel and a bit of torque is required to close......
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Ray
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Re: Pedersoli's petite derringers

#5 Post by Ray » Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:09 pm

Was handling some of my old cva deringers recently and thinking about the ford theater business and found this from a doctor stone's description of the president's 15 april 1865 autopsy......

" The wound… gave the appearance of having been produced by a larger ball, than that, used in ordinary revolver pistol. The hair or scalp was not in the least burn[t] – the edges of the wound were sharp and distinct. On probing the wound, with the finger, the projectile was found to have cut a distinct and perfectly round aperture…”


No black powder stipling ? ! !

Booth must have been not near as close as the official accounts.....
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Bill in Oregon
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Re: Pedersoli's petite derringers

#6 Post by Bill in Oregon » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:01 am

It would be interesting to test the Pedersoli Philadelphia for powder combustion at close distances. I had one of those big, clunky CVA derringers built from a kit. No comparison to the original.

piller
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Re: Pedersoli's petite derringers

#7 Post by piller » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:24 pm

I wonder just how much penetration those derringers actually had. Were they typically loaded to enough power to do much, or were they loaded light due to the relatively weak steel? I have heard about some of the 1800s and older firearms having catastrophic failures in the first 2 or 3 firings. Am I misinformed about that? It seems to me that the short barrel of the derringer would lose a lot of potential power from the flash and flame gasses not being held in. For more than an inch or two. Even with a similar powder charge to that in a 4 inch barrel revolver, wouldn't the derringer fail to achieve a similar velocity? I have inherited one of the old Leinad kit derringers from about 1975 that was put together. It is sort of unpleasant to shoot with a typical factory load of .45 Colt with a 230 grain bullet. I have done some handloads for it that bring the velocity down as low as I can get it. Just shooting it at alive Mountain Cedar trees is not very impressive. The penetration seems as if it might go a few inches into flesh, but I am not sure about it going into bone. I used some foam and two old shoes with a bench vise to hold the pistol while using a string to pull the trigger for the first 10 shots. I was behind some 3/4 inch thick plywood. It held up.
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Ray
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Re: Pedersoli's petite derringers

#8 Post by Ray » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:24 am

A quick search using keywords "lincoln autopsy" finds several site with notes from the examination.....

The descriptions of the bulging eye infers adequate shock even at the bb gun velocities.....


Mister Cumpston tested a jukar built and C.V.A. marketed "philadelphia" derringer with a .440" patched ball with a lubed "wonder wad" over 30 gr. of goex fffg at 419 fps. and 30 gr. swiss at 579 fps. He states that a nominal one inch pine board at an actual 3/4" to 7/8" thickness could be penetrated at 20 ft.

I'm not sure how to compare a pine board to live bone.....

https://www.amazon.com/Percussion-Revol ... oks&sr=1-1
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piller
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Re: Pedersoli's petite derringers

#9 Post by piller » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:42 am

When taking Kenpo, we were taught that breaking a 1 inch pine board was equivalent to breaking a bone. I do not know if that is accurate. I never tested that comparison with a bone and any instrument to test force used to break it.
D. Brian Casady
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Re: Pedersoli's petite derringers

#10 Post by Ray » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:58 pm

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Re: Pedersoli's petite derringers

#11 Post by Ray » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:53 am

Bill in Oregon wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:01 am
It would be interesting to test the Pedersoli Philadelphia for powder combustion at close distances. I had one of those big, clunky CVA derringers built from a kit. No comparison to the original.
Walking by a brace of those clunky spaniards inspired me to load them and carry them to walk down the drive to fetch the mail. One is a 70s jukar cva and the other a 80s dikar tourist trap souvineer.....
IMG_20191206_085543_kindlephoto-1207039756.jpg
Load is 30 pyrodex pellet, card, desperado brand 170gr. conical, smear of grease, and card over top......
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