Stick Powder? Lee Dippers Win!

[JohndeFresno]

Time for some serious rifle loading. A particular .270 Win load calls for some stick powder - tried and proven IMR 4831. Great old powder, but it is unkind to powder dispensers. My load is for 55.2 grains of the stuff.

So, it was time to research the various digital scale / dispenser combos. Sites that review new products can be helpful, but I have found that with a little careful reading, merchant sites' customer reviews will often disclose the true strengths and weaknesses of a product.

There are folks here who will insist that they have had no trouble with their pet equipment, but on the whole my research indicates to me that:
* Hornady's digital powder dispenser can be problematic and slow. I love the Lock-N-Load Progressive Press and its lock ring idea; but their digital equipment just has not made the grade, yet.

* RCBS, at $292.49 through Ethans Outlet, has received excellent ratings from full-time Gun industry testers, but it is not as quick or compact as the new Lyman setup. It has a load memory, which is pretty cool but unneeded, I think. But then there are several folks who have had problems with stick powder, or dispensing smaller loads with this equipment.

* Lyman Gen at $193.99 from Midway or about $231.00 in-store at the Fresno Sportsman's Warehouse (5% less for veterans) seemed to be the real deal. Then, reviews showed that it has problems with seals after a while.

And one or the other of them worked great until you ran about 400 grains through it. Still, this seems to be a pretty good idea - a machine that will load up a large amount of powder, repeatedly. And reportedly in less time than it takes to hand measure it.

Then, not wanting to part with over $200.00 for something that will break down, or be adversely influenced by "strong magnetic equipment" in the area, and which requires some degree of maintenance, I tried another method first.

Using my 501 scale, Lee Dipper, powder trickler and some new (clean) mini-Dixie cups, I discovered that I can easily measure out 10 doses at a time in far less than 5 minutes - less than 30 seconds each, with no prep or warmup time. I just selected the proper Lee dipper, a bit lower than the load (the one before 4_0) and I was in business. Then, the powder was ready to funnel into the cases waiting in a loading block.

Saved - over $200. Glad I saved all of those little yellow plastic rascals that I bought years ago. But I wonder why the digital scale / dispenser combos, with all of their foibles and vulnerabilities, are so popular now? Surely I am not the only handloader on the continent who has run this test?

What say y'all?

[GunnyMack]

I use a Dillon eletrionic scale, 1200 grain capacity. I also have a midway powder trickle that runs off battery.
When I load stick powder my tried and true RCBS powder measure is set for as close as I can get then I trickle until I get the charge. Yes it takes more time but it's the only way...
I much prefer ball powders for volume loading, as I'm sure most of us do.

[jhrosier]

I usually load from 20 to 50 rounds of rifle ammo at a time.
I've used the Lee dipper and Ohaus 1010 scale to measure the powder for many years.
I use the next size larger dipper to roughly measure the charge and hold back just a bit of powder to trickle up to the exact charge weight.
Tap, tap, tap on the dipper handle an you are within a couple tenths of a grain.
It really doesn't take much extra time to do this.
Ball or stick powder, it doesn't matter at all to me, I treat them all the same.

Jack

[Pisgah]

I own three different mechanical powder measures. They all work after a fashion, but at least 75% of the time the Lee dippers get the job. Fast, consistent, nothing to break or get out of adjustment.

[J Miller]

John,

I've been doing that since the late 1970's. I have one of the original Lee Dipper sets measured in grains not CCs. It works great and is not affected by anything but the operators consistency.
Sometimes I do the same thing with my powder measure and that works good too.
I've never seen the need or desire to drop huge amounts of dollars on electronic gadgets. I believe too much in the KISS principle.

Joe

[ollogger]

After 40 plus years I still use the Lee dippers a lot, most of my shooting is with cast bullets & not any where near
a max. charge



Brad

[Chuck 100 yd]

Throw a charge and dribble up for precision. I use RCBS and Redding measures to get within 1 grain first. I have done it that way since helping my dad load ammo in 1955. I still have his old Redding scale along with 2-3 others and they all read exactly the same. Why change now ?

[Old Time Hunter]

Just loaded 30 8 X 56 with H4198 using the auto disc on my Lee Turret, tried to maintain 25. 5 grains...weighed each and every one. Lowest was 25.2 and the highest 25.6...

Then loaded 10 of the same using a little plastic Lee dipper scrapping overfill with the edge of a small wood ruler...weighed each and every one. 25.4 for each and every one, first on the balance scale and then on my digital.

Believe you are correct sir!

[earlmck]

Oh you old fogies! When I load a bunch of rounds using the big sticks (or Alliant's "dots" which are also measure unfriendly) I set up my progressive with a Lee powder-thru die, set the charge on my Hornady electronic scale, and go. By the time I have seated a primer and slid a new case into station 1 and poked a bullet in a case mouth at station 5 and worked the handle to size and seat, the measure has usually completed its "thing" and I have a charge ready to pour in the little plastic funnel I wedge into the top of the powder-thru die. It's not as fast as when I am set up for auto-charge with the press-mounted powder measure but it isn't bad.

Besides the ball powders, Alliant's "Reloader" series is more measure-friendly than the other stick powders, Hodgdon's "Universal" more measure-friendly than "Unique", "Blue" more measure-friendly than "Blue Dot". I am sure there are lots of other good things to know about measure-friendly powders but I don't know them yet. I seem to have quite a lot of older, unfriendly powders in my stash that the old Scotsman will go ahead and use up, and the Hornady electronic scale lets me do it without driving myself nuts using a balance beam scale that likes to add extra weird wiggles everytime a stray air current hits it when I have removed it from its inside cabinet position and have placed it over by a press so it is handy to use in a loading procedure.

The Hornady electronic measure's irritating characteristic that slows people down and causes the bad comments is that it does quite a lot of "overcharge" warnings. Here it is "over" by about half a tenth of grain and when I am measuring out 57.5 grains of 7828 I don't sweat an extra .05 grains and I go ahead and use the overcharge and keep on going. You also have to read the instruction book and learn about changing both the fast and the trickle settings to suit the powder being loaded so the measuring goes relatively quickly but with reasonably minimized "overcharge" warnings.

[765x53]

I have both old and new sets of Lee dippers.
They have slightly different volumes. Between the two, you can usually get very close to the charge you want.

[AJMD429]

For me, so far....

For precision.....weigh charges.....second best (and undetectable unless off the bench with perfect rifle) - Lee dippers. Disadvantage = incremental charges so sometimes can't get "ideal" with a given dipper. Seldom an issue.

For speed.....Lee Disk Measure. Still the 'incrememt' issue, but fast and reproducible. With Micrometer Kit for a Dillon RL-550, even better results but longer setup time.

[JohndeFresno]

Hmmm...
GREAT posts! Just as soon as I think I have it all nailed, I learn some more from my esteemed Levergunner brothers and sisters. Thank you again.

I prefer to hand prime everything first - eliminates incidental jams - but otherwise now use the great Hornady Lock N Load for handgun cartridges, fitted with Lee Auto Disk on each expanding/powder station, with a Hornady Powder Cop die in the extra station made available. Very fast and satisfactory, lightning fast changeovers.

But rifle cartridges are loaded in stages on the Red Press because the included Hornady auto powder measure takes too much fiddling between loads, and the stick powder is still a problem.

Several great methods here. But mebbe - just mebbe - I out to get the cheaper but color coordinated (!) Hornady digital thing and a few rifle caliber Lee Powder Through dies so's I can automate my rifle loads like Earl suggested.

I guess, like a mechanic, half the fun of doing the task is depriving your wallet to get some new toys.

Ruminating on this. Once again, Gracias, all!

[Griff]

I only load for 5 "rifle" cartridges on a single stage press... and use the same method with them all with smokeless, for the two that sometimes get BP I have a variant on the main method.

1(a) for BP rounds, decap, liquid wash & dry, continue to
(b) tumble brass in walnut or corncob media til clean.
2. Dump in storage container until I'm ready to load.
3. Lube & size/decap.
4. Inspect case for defects and length, then trim and chamfer mouth as needed.
5. Either hand prime... or use the primer on the press... as each is completed set it in loading block.
6. Set up the RCBS powder drop and both scales, balance & electronic.
7. Check loading manual & powder stores to make sure I have proper powder and... enough! Put primers away. Get powder out of storage and make sure it's the ONLY powder on the bench.
8. Check inventory for bullets and that enough are lubed and, if needed gas-checked!
(a) Sometimes divert attention and labor efforts to casting & preparing projectiles....
9. Recheck reloading manual and powder on bench.
10. Set balance beam scales for desired load weight; set electronic scale to ZERO.
11. Adjust powder measure to dispense charge... run at least 10 dumps, weighing each... until they are consistent to within a tenth of a grain; I have found that technique needs to be a constant... if you bounce the handle against the stop once... do that from then on... I have found 2 bounces is faster to attain and maintain that consistency. ALWAYS with the same force... don't lightly tap one time, then slam it the next... you'll be forever chasing your charges.
(a) When using a stick powder, set up trickler and use it to bring charge to desired... (Easily avoided by selecting powder that doesn't require fussing with...)!
(b) For BP, just set BP measure to desired charge; (Think big dipper). Set up drop tube on bench.
(c) Recheck reloading manual and powder on bench.
12. Fill cases with powder.
13. Seat bullets.
14. Empty powder dispenser back into powder jug on bench...
15. Put unused powder back in storage.
16. Put loaded cases in boxes for transporting to either storage or range.
17. Go shooting.
18. Collect as much brass as possible. Even if it ain't all yours!!

Repeat as often as possible!

[Chuck 100 yd]

What Griff said +1 .

[JohndeFresno]

Good general practices, of course, Griff.

Now as for that Hornady, Earl -
These are the common complaints with the Hornady Digital Powder Dispenser (which is less expensive, a plus)
1) Frequently under-dispenses by .5 gr. / That's easy - just adjust it up .5 gr!
2) Error display when there is no error - common thing / Move load to beam scale to double check, then continue
3) Susceptible to cellphone & other electronics / Shouldn't have distracting cell phone while reloading, anyway
4) Wind disturbance or temperature extremes a problem / Reload in covered area. I close the garage door, okay for all but hottest summer months
5) Difficulty in first load, calibration, or cleaning / Chalk that one to user error and failure to read manual!
BUT THIS ONE -
6) Several complaints that Hornady Digital gives up the ghost after just a short use; not reliable over a period of time.

SO Earl,
How long have you used the red digital dispenser?
About how many stick powder loads have you run through?
Anything else before I deny the family some meals to pay for it?

[earlmck]

Dang John, I hadn't heard about a short life on the Hornady digital. I would not be happy if it gave out now, having had it -- I think less than two years but can't remember for sure.

I have not loaded very many loads using 50+ grains of a big stick -- maybe 100 rounds for the 260 Remington. My main use has been for Green Dot loads of 6 to 16 grains in a variety of revolver or rifle cast bullet loads. When I get rid of all this Green Dot (assuming I live long enough!) I'll switch those loads over to Universal which meters well enough to keep me happy.

I have also used the digital scale a modest amount for loads of 4759, a big fat fluffy stick that doesn't do well in powder measures. Loads of 10 to 20 grains of it.

Truthfully I have not done great gobs of loading with the Hornady digital because I have replaced 4198, 4895, 4064, 4831 and even 4227 with ball powders or the RL series and they meter well enough that I set myself up that way whenever I can.

You have me worried with this short-life thing. I didn't do any "consumer research" -- just saw it on sale in a Graf's or Midway flyer and thought it would work out well with the Progressive press and ordered it up, figuring Hornady wouldn't put out a bad product. It does have a few little quirks that I live with happily enough, but if it quit working and was out of warranty I would be quite disgruntled.

[Sixgun]

Yes Earl, I agree...and........as a capitalist always looking to increase the coffers, I have TWO complete sets for sale......

$15 per set will get them shipped to your door.-----Me

[JohndeFresno]

I never tried any of the Reloder line but I will pay more attention to rifle powders in the future that bypass the stick formulation.

2018 will likely see the enactment of laws that require Californians to register and pay a fee for the "privilege" of buying ammo. And they will be tracked in the process. And Internet direct ammo purchases will be as extinct as honest politicians.

So, like many here, Homey don't play dat! Instead, I have made some large reloading component purchases - never mind how much - and I gotta use them!

[coyote nose]

Stick powders meter well in my Lee powder thrower. There is a polymer soft 'wipe' inside the Lee unit that stops the 'crunching' associated with other powder throwers. I have 2 lyman, a lee and a RCBS thrower. The lee is used almost exclusively now.

[marlinman93]

When I first started out reloading 40+ years ago, I was on a tight budget. My mentor helped me find a RCBS Jr. press, and a 505 scale, but a powder measure took time to find a bargain on. So he recommended I buy a set of Lee dippers. I thought he was being foolish, but considering I wanted to get going quickly, I took his advice!
I found a set new for $4-$5 back then and set to reloading. I was amazed how accurate the little dippers were with many powders! Things like ball or flake powders were so accurate I began to skip the scale measuring for small pistol loads of Bullseye, or Blue Dot. Powders in my rifles like H335 or H380 were also extremely accurate!
I ended up taking my time trying to find a bargain on a powder measure as the Lee dippers weren't giving me any issues. Even after I finally found a Lyman 55, I still used the dippers for a lot of small pistol loads. Eventually I ended up giving them to a friend starting out, so he could save some money too.

[piller]

I haven't used my Lee powder dippers which come with the Lee die sets. I think you all have given me an idea. The .327 Magnum takes a very small amount of powder and it is hard to bring my powder throw down to the right setting. If I can get the right size Lee dipper, I could probably speed up the process. I always use a powder trickler to finish off the amount thrown. The right size dipper could save a lot of time adjusting the powder throw, and a gentle scoop out of a can might be pretty fast.

[JohndeFresno]

I haven't used my Lee powder dippers which come with the Lee die sets. I think you all have given me an idea. The .327 Magnum takes a very small amount of powder and it is hard to bring my powder throw down to the right setting. If I can get the right size Lee dipper, I could probably speed up the process. I always use a powder trickler to finish off the amount thrown. The right size dipper could save a lot of time adjusting the powder throw, and a gentle scoop out of a can might be pretty fast.

Piller, you may remember seeing a few posts where some posters here have ground down an empty cartridge case (with spent primer intact, of course). Then they just soldered on or otherwise fashioned a small handle; like a custom Lee dipper.

Right now I'm using Lee Powder Through dies for my rifle rounds; Dump the right amount from a Lee Dipper onto a scale, trickle the rest, pour the pan into the die on my Hornady Lock N Load progressive press. Adding the seating operation, it's a lot faster than using a single stage or turret press. The cash needed for one of those fancy trickler scales has found its way into another urgent project.

[3leggedturtle]

Lee powder measures and Ohaus 10-10 scale is what I go with. Not to many things I wanna do fast anymore. Tho my kid used theLee perfect powder thrower and woks good. Todd/3leg

[J35]

This fellow is pretty happy with his Hornady.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE8g9EH7p00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6VXRDpEo-s


--------------J

[marlinman93]

This fellow is pretty happy with his Hornady.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE8g9EH7p00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6VXRDpEo-s


--------------J

Ignorance is bliss! Unless he never checks the electronic against a mechanical scale he'll likely always be happy! I found warm air currents, fluorescent lights, motors, etc. can all affect the electronic scale's accuracy. But unless you cross check it, you'll be tickled with it!