Most Accurate 30-30...?

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AJMD429
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Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by AJMD429 »

I always wondered what the accuracy potential of the 30-30 is, and building a 20-lb bolt-action bench-gun in 30-30 with a 40x scope would certainly reveal the cartridge's potential, but even with a levergun, I've seen some 2" groups at 100 yards. That is clearly excellent 'hunting accuracy', but it still lags significantly behind bolt actions in other chamberings.

What is the most accurate lever action 30-30 you guys have ever seen...?

I ask because I have a barely-shot Marlin XLR and am trying to decide if I want to put developing a precision load for it on my list of projects for the coming year. Working 70 hour weeks means I have to be choosy with my recreational projects.
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Old Savage »

My Win 94 AE with 4x Weaver will shoot .75" at 100 yds with either Winchester Power Point or Federal Power Shok 170s. A friend had a Marlin octagon that I saw him do 1/2" groups with. I have had Marlins in 35 Rem, 444 and 45-70 that produced sub 1" groups.
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by .45colt »

My Marlin .338 MX shot 5 250gr Remington's in 1" . I bet Your XLR could easily do the same. I'm looking for one Doc, think of Me if the time comes you want to sell it. Good Luck. Jim.
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Bill in Oregon »

I had a Winchester "Legacy" Model 94 with 26-inch barrel, three-quarter magazine and Lyman tang sight that was a regular incher with handloads. Doubt I can shoot a peep that well any more.
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Griff »

My 1978 Winchester 94 with a full octagon (.850 across the flats from breech to muzzle), tang peep and globe front is a solid .75" grouper... (when I could see that well). But, IME, to fully wring out the .30-30s potential, it takes carefully assembled, hand crafted cartridges.
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by 44shooter »

Craig Boddington has written that his 94 trapper will shoot half moa. I saw a photo of his target. Don't remember the load, but I think it was factory. Not the norm, but shows what can happen when everything goes together right.

And that's with a receiver sight
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Blaine »

I'm not That Guy that lives, and breaths for tiny small groups. But, a long time ago, on another site I entered the RanchDog Postal matches, and my 80ish 336 would do MOA with iron sights at 50 yards so as long as I let the barrel cool down between shots.
I've mentioned before that I like Col Jeff Cooper's idea of a "good group". Just one shot. If you hit it, that's a good group. :lol:
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Ray Newman »

"I've mentioned before that I like Col Jeff Cooper's idea of a "good group". Just one shot. If you hit it, that's a good group."
--Blaine

I understand that. I have rifles that will shoot sub-MOA groups on demand. And I have a slew of one shot targets to prove it! :lol:

The .30 WCF will shoot, problem is that many rifles were/are made for hunting where exceptional accuracy and fine target sights or really powerful 'scopes are not needed.

A now-deceased Fellow Shooter had a ' scoped Winchester Model 54, .30 WCF (he claimed it was a special order), that would easily hold 1 MOA for 5 or 10 consecutive shots at 100 yards with jacketed bullets. At 200 yards, it would open up to maybe 2 1/4". Key was not getting the barrel too warm; other wise the group enlarged. Once I watched a shooter with a Unertl-scoped, heavy barreled (??#4 Winchester profile??) with set triggers, Winchester M1885 chew out the X ring at 200 yards.

Of course, both shooters prepped their brass like bench rest shooters -- bench rest primers, uniform and chamfer primer pocket holes and uniform case length. Believe they also neck sized, not full length. Both opined that one of the key aspects was uniform rim thickness. I f memory serves me, the Model 54 utilized the old Federal .30 American brass -- .30 WCF with small primer pockets. Wish Federal would reintroduce that brass, it was good, vety good brass!.
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by marlinman93 »

Great accuracy can be a 3 shot group at 100 yds. or a 10 shot group. But I've seen a fair number of .30-30's that did well in a 3 shot string, but as they warmed up the groups could not maintain the same accuracy.
The most accurate .30-30 I owned was a Winchester 1885 single shot rebarreled in .30-30 with a heavy full octagon barrel. It would maintain it's accuracy all day long, and never threw one as it warmed up. 20 or 30 shot strings resulted in one ragged hole at 100 yds.
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Pisgah »

My first Marlin 336, 1967 vintage purchased, I believe, about 1976, put its first 3-shot, 100-yard group after a 4x Tasco was mounted in to 0.5". This was with J.C. Higgins (Sears) 170gr. loads. I immediately returned to the store and bought all 4 of the remaining boxes of that lot of ammo, and the rifle would reliably and consistently beat 1 moa for three shots with all of it. But really, regardless of brand or bullet weight, that rifle rarely shot over an inch. Simply phenomenal...

Some would say 3 shots won't tell you much, but of the 50+ deer killed with that rifle the only time I ever fired 3 shots I got 3 deer.
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by saleen322 »

I seen a number of 336 Marlins that shot well but the best lever 30-30 I saw was a 99 Savage. I think their lock up is so good that it gives them a little advantage.
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Hairtrigger »

I know you said lever
But
Remington made the 788 in 30-30
I used to work with a guy that had one and watched him change my mind of how a 30-30 Could shoot
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by 6pt-sika »

There was a fellow on here or castboolits a few years back that had a 336XLR 30-30 . If memory serves he was shooting cast in the thing , claimed to have a creep free FACTORY trigger that broke at about four to six ounces . He also had a rather large Nikon something like 8-32x and he CLAIMED he was getting groups at 100 yards under an 1/8" after deducting the bullet diameter . And he claims he did it consistently . Now he very well may have been telling the truth , but if I'm not sitting there watching him shoot four or five groups blah blah blah I have a hard time accepting all that .
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by 6pt-sika »

44shooter wrote:Craig Boddington has written that his 94 trapper will shoot half moa. I saw a photo of his target. Don't remember the load, but I think it was factory. Not the norm, but shows what can happen when everything goes together right.

And that's with a receiver sight
When Marlin first brought out the 336XLR I got one in 30-30 and several boxes of the factory Hornady rubber tip stuff . And with a plain Jane Leupold VX1 3-9 on top it would hang around 3/4" at 100 yards for 3 shots . Got the same from the 308MXLR as well with factory .
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by AJMD429 »

Just shot a 0.7" 5-shot group at 100 yards with mine, using a 16x scope and off the bench. Factory 150 grain Winchester loads.

So there definitely IS potential...!
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Blaine »

AJMD429 wrote:Just shot a 0.7" 5-shot group at 100 yards with mine, using a 16x scope and off the bench. Factory 150 grain Winchester loads.

So there definitely IS potential...!
Those groundhogs at 400 yards don't stand a chance. :wink:
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by flatnose »

Much the same story with my 30-30's.
I have a top eject 94 Winchester from the 1970's, refitted with a Numrich 1 in 10 octagonal 26'' barrel, with tang and globe sight. When I had better eyesight, 1/2'' to 5/8'' at 100yds was commonplace for 5 or more shots.
I played around and experimented with that rifle a lot. Accuracy got better and better with each increase in powder charge to the max load of W748. If it were safe to go higher on powder charge, it gave me the feeling that groups would improve even more. Seating depth of bullet made a very small improvement, case prep, maybe a little. Biggest gain was using Hornady 168 grain hpbt bullets loaded one at a time into the action. That improved groups by 1/4'' or so.
My 94 carbine topped off with a 36x power scope and 150 grain bullets and W748 powder can do 5/8'' groups, but usually is around 3/4'' or slightly better. It takes me about 20 to 25 rounds or more to settle down and get the correct hold on the carbine, then it becomes relatively easy to get good groups.
I wish I could see that well now.
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Sixgun »

A Canadian Centennial that I got in 1967 was the best I ever had.......since gave it to my son.....with the 170 Sierra FP and 28 grains of RL-11 (long discontinued) it would put 5 in an inch and a half.

The late great Frank Marshall experimented with the 30-30 extensively back in the 1930"s and did wonders with it.

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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by 6pt-sika »

Sixgun wrote:A Canadian Centennial that I got in 1967 was the best I ever had.......since gave it to my son.....with the 170 Sierra FP and 28 grains of RL-11 (long discontinued) it would put 5 in an inch and a half.

The late great Frank Marshall experimented with the 30-30 extensively back in the 1930"s and did wonders with it.

It's my belief that no cartridges are anymore accurate than others....it's the gun that chambers them.---6
In his later years FrankMarshall had a Remington 788 in 30-30 he held in high regard . He hunted with it but only in nice weather and shot only cast bullets . Seems to me he also had a Savage 340 in 30-30 as well that he considered his bad weather gun .
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Ray Newman »

6pt-sika: did not Frank Marshall call the Savage 340 "a funny little rifle" because of its action and the way it was manufactured??

I always thought that the Remington 788 was a 'sleeper." Knew several shooters that had them and they were very accurate no matter what the calibre.
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by geobru »

I don't have them in 30-30, but my 1894 octagon sporting rifle and Model 64 in 32 Spl are very accurate. More so than my 94 30-30. I attribute the accuracy to the rifle design and suspect that 30-30s in those models would perform very well too. :)
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Borregos »

My most accurate 30-30 is a 14" Contender!!
Closely followed by a 1915 vintage Winchester Saddle Ring Carbine!!!!
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Dusty Ed »

Howdy Folks
Here is the way I see it , I think it is mostly in the Barrels ,when I started shooting in the Fifties if you found a factory gun the shot a 2" Or 3" group that was very acceptable.
Even Weatherby Had a Guarantee of only 1.5" ,an way back when Pope was shooting an making Barrels he would only keep 2 Or 3 out of ever ten.
Now if you get a bad barrel there is no excuse .
That is my story an I'm sticking to it.
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Sixgun »

Dusty Ed wrote:Howdy Folks
Here is the way I see it , I think it is mostly in the Barrels ,when I started shooting in the Fifties if you found a factory gun the shot a 2" Or 3" group that was very acceptable.
Even Weatherby Had a Guarantee of only 1.5" ,an way back when Pope was shooting an making Barrels he would only keep 2 Or 3 out of ever ten.
Now if you get a bad barrel there is no excuse .
That is my story an I'm sticking to it.
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Old Savage »

More likely bullets are better now. At least by 1954 Savage could make barrels for the 99 that will rasily shoot sub inch with modern bullets. I have them in .250 and .300 that will do that.
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Griff »

Old Savage wrote:More likely bullets are better now. At least by 1954 Savage could make barrels for the 99 that will rasily shoot sub inch with modern bullets. I have them in .250 and .300 that will do that.
Being fairly new at this... there has been a marked improvement in factory ammunition since I started shooting in the 1970s... Along with similar improvements in bullets for handloaders.

There are very few have the physical & mental skills to take full advantage of the inherent accuracy available in any rifle/cartridge combination. It's still the rare individual that can shoot 1" groups no matter the capability of the combination.
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by 6pt-sika »

Ray Newman wrote:6pt-sika: did not Frank Marshall call the Savage 340 "a funny little rifle" because of its action and the way it was manufactured??

I always thought that the Remington 788 was a 'sleeper." Knew several shooters that had them and they were very accurate no matter what the calibre.
Dunno about the "funny rifle" , but it wouldn't surprise me .

There were several gunsmiths around here that built some pretty darned good Varmint or Target rifles on 788 actions . I have personally seen several 788's that were 1/4 MOA or better guns albeit most of them had been rebarreled .
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by shortwheels »

I have a 1980 336 30/30 that will shoot MOA with my hand loads !!!!!
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Modoc ED »

The rifle used to shoot this group will consistently shoot one inch groups and as shown will sometimes shoot sub-one inch groups. The group shown was shot from a standing rest with my hand on a 4"x4" post with the rifle supported on my thumb.

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Now standing off hand it's a different matter. Under that circumstance, I manage 2" to 2 1/2" groups.

EDITED TO ADD: That group was shot in 2005. Nowadays, I'm a lot older and my hands are pretty shaky when holding things - like writing with a pen, holding a tool, rifle fore end, etc. so I'd have to say that now-a-days I might only be able to manage a 2" to 3" group but Hey!! the rifle hasn't changed and in capable hands could duplicate the group shown.
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

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Nice shooting M guy.
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Old Savage »

Well Ed, like Griff I doubt if I could come anywhere close to 2 1/2" offhand at 100 yds. Comes down to frame of reference. This is the best I have done for five off a bench using a buddy's heavy barrel .223 and 25 power scope so I compare bolts to this but it seems here that the best 30-30 levers come close if not on a par with a bolt action hunting rifle.
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Modoc ED »

I like to zero a rifle from the bench or a rest; however, once zeroed, I like to shoot off-hand -preferably standing. Although much of the area around me is heavily wooded, there are a lot of farms/ranches that have no trees or other things to shoot from and standing is the only way to go. I also like to shoot sitting but the topography of the land most times prevents a clear shot in the sitting position.

There are many many rifles that have much more potential than their shooter has.

Once again - I'm getting older and shakier as time goes by and of course, with age, my eye sight is changing too.
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Old Savage »

Certainly an understandable and valid approach. Here by contrast shots are usually long and open. I have always sat or used a rest. So I find that resting a rifle across a gym bag on the bench closely replicates the stability of a sitting position. I have fired approx.12,000 rounds this way including the target above..
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Griff »

I just powder coated some .310 150gr FN bullets today... and plan on sizing and gas checking them tomorrow, maybe load them up. I've read where there are guys that have experienced POI shift simply between PC and lubed bullets. I tested some at RKrodles on Sat in the M-1 last Saturday, but didn't really feel there was any major shift. I'll test 'em out in my 26" mdl 94 in the '30-30 to see.
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

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I found that powder coated bullets varied quite a bit in accuracy between powder charges in my very accurate Ren Model 7 with no other changes.
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by flatnose »

Griff, what mold is that with the pc bullets? How has accuracy been so far?
I am about to try some rcbs 150 grn gc bullets, actually, 159 grn with checks and lube.
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

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flatnose wrote:Griff, what mold is that with the pc bullets? How has accuracy been so far?
I am about to try some rcbs 150 grn gc bullets, actually, 159 grn with checks and lube.
It's a Saeco #316. Accuracy has been very good. I cast them in a mix of approx. 6:1 of WW:Lino. I run them at the same velocity as I get from Federal 150 gr factory.
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by flatnose »

Griff wrote:
flatnose wrote:Griff, what mold is that with the pc bullets? How has accuracy been so far?
I am about to try some rcbs 150 grn gc bullets, actually, 159 grn with checks and lube.
It's a Saeco #316. Accuracy has been very good. I cast them in a mix of approx. 6:1 of WW:Lino. I run them at the same velocity as I get from Federal 150 gr factory.
Are the WW's clip ons, and do you quench them before using regular lube?
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Griff »

flatnose wrote:
Griff wrote:
flatnose wrote:Griff, what mold is that with the pc bullets? How has accuracy been so far?
I am about to try some rcbs 150 grn gc bullets, actually, 159 grn with checks and lube.
It's a Saeco #316. Accuracy has been very good. I cast them in a mix of approx. 6:1 of WW:Lino. I run them at the same velocity as I get from Federal 150 gr factory.
Are the WW's clip ons, and do you quench them before using regular lube?
No, that would labor intensive! :P They're hard. My LBT hardness tester show them to be in 18-20Bhn range... and with the gascheck, no leading in any .30 bore I've fired them in.
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by JB »

I've never owned a 30-30 would average any better than 2" at 100 yards with factory loads. That's "average" for multiple groups, not that one freak group we all shoot then carry around in our wallet or sticks in our minds as "what my rifle shoots". But a number of years ago, I did shoot a friends old 336A that was averaging close to 1" with factory loads. I should have tried to beat him out of it.
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by MtnGun »

My main question would be: Does an 1885 Winchester count as a "lever gun"? If so, i've seen one that beats an inch easily and most every time, and this, with cast bullets.
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Griff »

MtnGun wrote:My main question would be: Does an 1885 Winchester count as a "lever gun"? If so, i've seen one that beats an inch easily and most every time, and this, with cast bullets.
I believe the official party line is that a "levergun" is defined as a repeating action operated by using a lever. But, unofficially, bolt guns are sometimes referred to as "side levers", as noted above, some have already identified their most accurate .30-30 are said "side-levers"! :P And since the topic title doesn't say "lever"... It certainly seems to me that an 1885 SHOULD be amongst the top contenders for "most accurate .30-30!"
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Chuck 100 yd
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Chuck 100 yd »

Sixgun wrote:A Canadian Centennial that I got in 1967 was the best I ever had.......since gave it to my son.....with the 170 Sierra FP and 28 grains of RL-11 (long discontinued) it would put 5 in an inch and a half.

The late great Frank Marshall experimented with the 30-30 extensively back in the 1930"s and did wonders with it.

It's my belief that no cartridges are anymore accurate than others....it's the gun that chambers them.---6
The .30-30 does have the potential for fine cast bullet accuracy due to it's long neck and optimum powder capacity. There have been many amazingly small groups shot with it in proper guns.
Stiff actions and barrels,properly bedded and floated barreled actions, no mag tubes. etc. benchrest shooters normally shy away from rimmed cartridges and prefer something like the .30 BR when building a bench gun.
My Canadian 26" 94 is the most accurate levergun I own with cast bullets. My Marlin .308 MX is the most accurate with jacketed followed closely by my 336 in .444.
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Old Savage
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Old Savage »

Picking up on what Griff said, I think Nosler #3 talks about using a Ruger #1 in 30-30.
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Streetstar »

Sixgun wrote:A Canadian Centennial that I got in 1967 was the best I ever had.......since gave it to my son.....with the 170 Sierra FP and 28 grains of RL-11 (long discontinued) it would put 5 in an inch and a half.

.---6
Good to know -- I just got one of these ---

I will admit that I am a bit of a vadge at times and the crescent metal butt plate bites me hard, even in this long heavy rifle
----- Doug
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Streetstar »

Borregos wrote:My most accurate 30-30 is a 14" Contender!!
Closely followed by a 1915 vintage Winchester Saddle Ring Carbine!!!!
A Contender would have been my bet for the big accuracy winner -- either pistol or carbine
----- Doug
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Nazgul »

I have a Uberti Low Wall in 30-30, has a 26" barrel.

I have not completely wrung it out yet but it shows very good potential with factory ammo.

Twice I have fired near 2" at 80 Yards. It has a short throat which I suspect is the reason for the accuracy.

The factory peep sight was manufactured crooked, it will be replaced. The chamber is very tight, some of my resized brass wants to stick. Have to investigate this further as well.

Don
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Dave »

As hard as it is to believe this is the gun in my avatar at 200 yards. I was shooting off sandbags with the 2.5 power scope. The low hole was the first shot as a sighter since I had never fired it at 200 before. The high group was using the top of the duplex post as an aiming point. The second set of two holes was the same aiming point after a sight adjustment. Either that gun is shooting around 1/2" at 200 or lighting struck twice.

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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Griff »

Those suitcase handles can make for mighty good shootin'!
Griff,
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Re: Most Accurate 30-30...?

Post by Borregos »

Shot this Thursday at 50 yards with one of my 14" Contender barrels off a makeshift rest. Had a few factory rounds someone gave me.
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