Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

Post by JohndeFresno »

You have probably heard the term "Run, Hide, or Fight." This is a video specifically about suggested actions to take in an active shooter situation at churches or any place where people congregate.

It is well produced and filmed - 6 minutes in all. I am putting this into a training package for my church as part of a proposed update to our security training.

You can view it for yourself and decide if it works for you and your congregation or meeting group.

Here is the current direct YouTube link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VcSwejU2D0

If this is pulled from the Internet for some reason, I created an MP4 format video and placed it in my online archive, but the huge 189 MB file takes a long time to download, even with cable or DSL service. Its link is here:
https://app.box.com/s/3n6o2j766jjvu0awem4hnwfrqxx5ri30
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

Post by AJMD429 »

Pretty good video.

Of course 'CCW' folks have an additional later of things to deal with, too.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

Post by boolitshooter »

To me this is an anti-gun video by DHS.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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boolitshooter wrote:To me this is an anti-gun video by DHS.
Actually not. In the first frames where the shooter is shown entering the building... that "30.06" sign on the door told me this was in Texas, and that this building forbade the carrying of firearms in the building. While most sheep are untrainable, they can be conditioned into certain responses. This was made to aid the sheepdogs in conditioning the sheep. It only makes use of one type of wolf, the "active" shooter. Like most sheep herds, there were a lot of ewes, and only a couple of rams.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

Post by marlinman93 »

Not sure how this could be construed as antigun video?
Seems like a great video, and considering how many buildings and work scenarios wont allow concealed carry guns, it's imperative that people know their best options when stuck in a situation that doesn't allow them a good defense. I liked the video, and think it should be part of every company's new employee training. Especially if they're one of those companies that bans concealed carry on their premises!
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

Post by JohndeFresno »

As for me, I don't care if it is anti-gun or not. We can use it to encourage folks on the right way to escape, remind them to turn off their cell phone rings if trapped, and other useful things mentioned here. There is a training package that goes with this, at this site:
https://training.fema.gov/is/courseover ... ode=IS-907
The "Downloads for Classroom" is very useful for sharing, among some other things.

I don't comment on what is going on at our church, but you can easily guess that even if some folks were carrying, clearly that would not be the case with the whole congregation. And it makes a lot of sense to me, for them to get out of the way, rather than be "martyrs" to some cave man or other nut.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

Post by Blaine »

Unless there are metal detectors, I've got mine on me.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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I'm rarely in the office. But there are others there who can, if they desire to be, be armed. Best I can do for them is to give them the tools and let them make their own choices.

Some customers specifically state no firearms allowed on the premises. So, I can't be "immediately" armed. But because of the scarcity of carry permits where I generally work, most have no such written prohibitions and I'm therefore armed. Again, I do the best I can.

But, even when I can't have a firearm, I'm never "Unarmed". It may be an edged weapon, a contact weapon, or a chemical weapon, but I will have something.

Obviously I can have no idea how I or anyone else would react. But if I ran or hid and others were injured or killed I do know that my sense of quilt would be extreme. I hope I'd do the right thing for both others and myself.

Honestly, I'm more concerned for my wife. She works in a public library, with all the dangers (is there a softer target?) and restrictions that implies. Technically she can have any sort of weapon. But, we'd rather deal with a work place rules violation that a funeral. Enough said.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

Post by JerryB »

John, thanks for posting this. My pastor has had several CCW classes held at our church camp a few miles from church, with a couple of different instructors. Both were current LEO men with over half of the men and women in the church now carrying. A lot of folks from town and the area came for the classes too.
Our preacher preaches from the King James AV1611 bible so I reckon he preaches Hate according to the law now.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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I like thee information, not sure I care for the way they physically portrayed the shooter. None, zero, of the shooters I can recall looked like that.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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The hospital system I work for uses the same video. I thought it was good and made a lot of sense. The message is simple but allows for different responses as the situation changes.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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sore shoulder wrote:I like thee information, not sure I care for the way they physically portrayed the shooter. None, zero, of the shooters I can recall looked like that.
Charles Whitman looked close enough for me. He known for sniping from the clock tower in Austin but he killed some of his victims up close inside the tower.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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BlaineG wrote:Unless there are metal detectors, I've got mine on me.
Yup.... :mrgreen:
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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44shooter wrote:
sore shoulder wrote:I like thee information, not sure I care for the way they physically portrayed the shooter. None, zero, of the shooters I can recall looked like that.
Charles Whitman looked close enough for me. He known for sniping from the clock tower in Austin but he killed some of his victims up close inside the tower.
So one, in 1966. My point exactly.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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Mustn't offend anyone. Portraying them as a middle eastern beard wearing nut case just wouldn't be PC.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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I've never asked if anyone carries in our church. I figured nobody asks me, so why would I ask. But I know we don't have metal detectors, and glad we don't! ;)
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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sore shoulder wrote:
44shooter wrote:
sore shoulder wrote:I like thee information, not sure I care for the way they physically portrayed the shooter. None, zero, of the shooters I can recall looked like that.
Charles Whitman looked close enough for me. He known for sniping from the clock tower in Austin but he killed some of his victims up close inside the tower.
So one, in 1966. My point exactly.
Not entirely sure what you mean by the actors appearance. Surely not that he is white, since there have been plenty of white mass shooters in recent memory. Maybe that he is over thirty? Quite a few men in that demographic have gone to their job or wife's job and shot the place up. Is it that he sort of looks like an operator type? Ex leo or military? A vet just flew to Fort Lauderdale and shot up the airport. He has a Spanish name though. An ex cop broke into his wife's parents house and killed her and himself near Raleigh recently. He was a blonde haired white man.

My point is anybody of any age, ethnicity, or background can decide that they are going to go somewhere and kill people. It happens everywhere for all kinds of reasons in minds of these perps.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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44shooter wrote:
sore shoulder wrote:
44shooter wrote:
sore shoulder wrote:I like thee information, not sure I care for the way they physically portrayed the shooter. None, zero, of the shooters I can recall looked like that.
Charles Whitman looked close enough for me. He known for sniping from the clock tower in Austin but he killed some of his victims up close inside the tower.
So one, in 1966. My point exactly.
Not entirely sure what you mean by the actors appearance. Surely not that he is white, since there have been plenty of white mass shooters in recent memory. Maybe that he is over thirty? Quite a few men in that demographic have gone to their job or wife's job and shot the place up. Is it that he sort of looks like an operator type? Ex leo or military? A vet just flew to Fort Lauderdale and shot up the airport. He has a Spanish name though. An ex cop broke into his wife's parents house and killed her and himself near Raleigh recently. He was a blonde haired white man.

My point is anybody of any age, ethnicity, or background can decide that they are going to go somewhere and kill people. It happens everywhere for all kinds of reasons in minds of these perps.
That "vet" had a known history of mental illness, jihadists leanings even prior to his service, and was known to the FBI. He also didn't look like the guy in the video. Neither have the last several mass shooters. The Ft Hood shooter was a muslim male who commited jihad. The CA shooters who commmited workplace mass murder were muslim jihadists. the other Florida shooter was a muslim jihadist. the Tsaernev brothers were muslim jihadists The cop shooting wife is out of context and doesn't belong in this discussion, nice try. The video is stereotyping the average white male with a very male/military bearing and presence. It stinks of propaganda disguised as a training video. I've seen many of them before. They come from the same people who stereotype people who talk about the constitution, go to church, own guns etc. The fact that you want to argue that makes me suspicious of you. How's that for clarifying what I mean? In fact, you are displaying the same sort of mentality that muslim sympathizers display. The actor does NOT represent the average perpetrator of mass shootings. Let me clarify further, he doesn't look like a jihadist. Clear enough now? Wanna keep going? Are you a muslim jihadi sympathiser? Sounds like it. How's that for clear?
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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Sore Shoulder, I'm been in productions like these when I was with our training div. The was a noticeable paucity of "actors" that looked like the folks you're describing. You can read into it what you will, but having been a participant, I've never been aware of any underlying message to these productions. Every one was conceived and produced for the result stated. Almost everyone in our little training films looked ex-military or cop... 'cause they were! Quite a few refused to participate as they didn't want other cops that didn't know them to associate them as a "bad guy". The only folks we didn't allow were UC guys or gals... didn't want their likeness in a medium where they could be potentially compromised.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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Not entirely sure what you mean by the actors appearance. Surely not that he is white, since there have been plenty of white mass shooters in recent memory. Maybe that he is over thirty? Quite a few men in that demographic have gone to their job or wife's job and shot the place up. Is it that he sort of looks like an operator type? Ex leo or military? A vet just flew to Fort Lauderdale and shot up the airport. He has a Spanish name though. An ex cop broke into his wife's parents house and killed her and himself near Raleigh recently. He was a blonde haired white man.

My point is anybody of any age, ethnicity, or background can decide that they are going to go somewhere and kill people. It happens everywhere for all kinds of reasons in minds of these perps.[/quote]

That "vet" had a known history of mental illness, jihadists leanings even prior to his service, and was known to the FBI. He also didn't look like the guy in the video. Neither have the last several mass shooters. The Ft Hood shooter was a muslim male who commited jihad. The CA shooters who commmited workplace mass murder were muslim jihadists. the other Florida shooter was a muslim jihadist. the Tsaernev brothers were muslim jihadists The cop shooting wife is out of context and doesn't belong in this discussion, nice try. The video is stereotyping the average white male with a very male/military bearing and presence. It stinks of propaganda disguised as a training video. I've seen many of them before. They come from the same people who stereotype people who talk about the constitution, go to church, own guns etc. The fact that you want to argue that makes me suspicious of you. How's that for clarifying what I mean? In fact, you are displaying the same sort of mentality that muslim sympathizers display. The actor does NOT represent the average perpetrator of mass shootings. Let me clarify further, he doesn't look like a jihadist. Clear enough now? Wanna keep going? Are you a muslim jihadi sympathiser? Sounds like it. How's that for clear?[/quote][/quote][/quote]

Do Dylan Roof, Adam Lanza, James Holmes, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold look like jihadis? How about the Korean guy at Virginia Tech? We can leave my case of the dirty ex cop out. I just link domestic violence with workplace violence because I know of a few cases where men killed their estranged partners at their job. This one wasn't the case though.

I do get your point better now. The guy wasn't only white but he did appear and carry himself like a military man. He didn't look like a crazy young punk for sure. I just think you're reading too much into a video designed to help workers respond to workplace violence. Your typical case is going to be an angry worker attacking his boss and coworkers, someone hunting down an ex, or a customer, client or student with a grievance. It's not always going to be a brown man shouting Arabic.

No I'm not a Muslim jihadi sympathizer. I do not sympathize with anyone attacking peaceable people minding their business.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

Post by handirifle »

Our church (in CA of all places) encourages CCW's. Surprised a church in TX does not.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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JerryB wrote:John, thanks for posting this. My pastor has had several CCW classes held at our church camp...
You are quite welcome, Jerry.

Due to liability issues, you might want to stress that this is a group of like-minded friends outside of the umbrella of the church, practicing and/or learning techniques for personal self-defense, regardless of where they are. If there ever is an incident, CCW instructors in my state at least, are saying "expect to be sued".

The fact that your church camp CCW training is open to outsiders seems to be a good defense against the premise that your church engaged in security training for its congregants and church protection only.

Were it to be billed as "Church Security Training" or described to the trainees as such, your church and Board might be vulnerable to being dragged into the lawsuit, demanding the church to produce the syllabus, target scores, and testimony of the trainer and possibly bring in "experts" to find fault in the training - like they have done with civil lawsuits in police involved shootings. Without all of this documentation, there might be a way for the lawyer(s) to persuade the jury that inadequate training presents a finding for liability to the church and shooter.

The "deep pocket theory" used by lawyers is employed to extend a lawsuit to any organization or company connected with a person being sued, along with that person - if a connection can be established - such as training on "company" time or funding or with "company" approval. The more money ("deeper the pocket") the better.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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I would think that being open to the public should be a fairly safe defense.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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JerryB wrote:I would think that being open to the public should be a fairly safe defense.
I agree. Just throwing this all out for folks in similar situations.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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I reckon there are a lot of folks that just don't think that far into it, though they should.
Thanks for you back ground on this subject.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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Jesus commanded his disciples, "He that hath not a sword, let him sell his cloak and buy one." That is my Lord telling me that I am to armed.

If you think you know what your attacker will look like due to some preconceived idea you have already placed yourself in danger.

I listen to a podcast every week called "God and Guns." One the podcast one of the guys talks about the church security team they have in place at his church. They plan to cover this topic in a more in depth manner in the near future. Evidently there are several books out there already that address this topic.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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Given my own background and training, my PERSONAL response to an active shooter situation is: Take cover and return fire as appropriate targets present themselves.
I EXPECT to be sued.
I EXPECT to be surveilled by the government.
I EXPECT to have to rely on myself to defend myself or my family in the gravest extreme.
I govern myself accordingly.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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Griff wrote:Sore Shoulder, I'm been in productions like these when I was with our training div. The was a noticeable paucity of "actors" that looked like the folks you're describing. You can read into it what you will, but having been a participant, I've never been aware of any underlying message to these productions. Every one was conceived and produced for the result stated. Almost everyone in our little training films looked ex-military or cop... 'cause they were! Quite a few refused to participate as they didn't want other cops that didn't know them to associate them as a "bad guy". The only folks we didn't allow were UC guys or gals... didn't want their likeness in a medium where they could be potentially compromised.
Griff, I understand that possibility. However, I have participated in a lot of anti terrorism and active shooter trainings, enough to know that I am not reading too much in to it. The things I have seen, read and been told in trainings is nothing short of shocking. I've also trained on several formats that were designed by and for LEO/SWAT that used simple makeup (clothing, fake mustache, beard and wigs etc) in addition to DOD/MIL trainings where simple costumes were used. It's not difficult at all to make the simulations accurate. There is in fact an organized effort deep in the gov to stereotype a certain type of individual. Whether this video is actually guilty of that is irrelevant. As I stated, I like the information. I don't like the way the shooter was depicted, and I have very legitimate reasons for that.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

Post by Ysabel Kid »

John, thanks for posting this.

The church I belong to created a Parish Safety Team late last year, and I am on the executive committee. It is an unfortunate reality that we need to worry about such things today.

A bit of good news here today though. That worthless piece of scum Dylan Roof (the Charleston church shooter) just got the death penalty. Unfortunately, it will be decades before it will be applied. They should have taken him out of the courthouse and hung him out front this afternoon... :evil: :evil: :evil:
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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44shooter wrote:It's not always going to be a brown man shouting Arabic.

.
It is actually very likely.


https://conservativedailypost.com/exclu ... or-attack/

http://www.breitbart.com/national-secur ... -new-year/
This is not the first time ISIS-linked groups have used a list of churches to create menacing propaganda. In July, a list of about 15,000 people associated with churches and synagogues in Texas, New York, California, and Florida was circulated on social media by the terror group, along with exhortations for “sleeper cells or lone wolves” to murder them. The FBI contacted many of the people on this list to warn them of possible danger.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... kill-list/

Denial of the problem is one of the biggest threats we are facing.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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We can argue all day long about what a shooter may look like. It has little to do with the real issue of being prepared, and knowing how to respond when it happens. I doubt when shots are fired that anyone cares how the shooter is dressed, or what color he or she is.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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A major function of being prepared is threat identification. Before shots are fired.
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A major function of being prepared is always being aware of your surroundings. Don't ever let yourself feel safe because of where you are. You can't always identify the threat before it's too late, and you can rarely react quick enough if you let your guard down. The threat wont always look like a threat, but you can always be prepared.
I've been through many FATS scenarios, and even when you're ready for something to happen, you can be surprised by someone you identified as a threat, but turned out not to be. Or be watching what you think is an identified threat, and suddenly the person you didn't identify as a threat attacks. Unfortunately this is how some people end up getting shot, or shooting an innocent person. It's a false sense of security to think you can look over every situation and know or identify the threat every time.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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No one said you can identify every threat. I'm not sure what your point is anymore other than you seem to take issue with me identifying muslim jihadists as a bigger threat than a white male with military bearing. As someone who is in the military and recieves constant training in this area, I'll stick with what I know.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

Post by marlinman93 »

sore shoulder wrote: I'm not sure what your point is anymore other than you seem to take issue with me identifying muslim jihadists as a bigger threat than a white male with military bearing. .
Please show me where I ever mentioned or referred to muslims, or taking issue with you pointing out anything? Never took issue with identifying muslims, but merely stated that threats aren't easily identified. You were the one who said a threat needed to be identified. Now explain how that's done.
If you're somehow involved in security or police work, you've obviously been through firearms simulators, and had exposure to various scenarios. The scenarios I've been through showed all sorts of personel from old men, old women, young men, young women, and even muslim jihadists, etc. The whole point of firearms training simulated threats is to make the officer aware that threats don't come in a certain shape or color. Anyone can be a threat, so it's being prepared, and not making the mistake of identifying someone as a threat based on their appearance.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

Post by marlinman93 »

And as long as we're on the subject of what a mass shooter looks like. Might as well list the many shooters who were the source of the term "Going postal"! None of these people looked a certain way, and they ranged in age and gender across the board.

Edmond, Oklahoma, in 1986[edit]

On August 20, 1986, during the Edmond post office shooting, 14 employees were shot and killed and 6 were wounded at the Edmond, Oklahoma, post office by Patrick Sherrill, a postman who then committed suicide with a shot to the forehead.[3]

Ridgewood, New Jersey, in 1991[edit]

A former United States postal worker, Joseph M. Harris, killed his former supervisor, Carol Ott, and killed her boyfriend, Cornelius Kasten Jr., at their home. The following morning, on October 10, 1991, Harris shot and killed two mail handlers, Joseph M. VanderPaauw, 59, of Prospect Park, New Jersey, and Donald McNaught, 63, of Pompton Lakes, New Jersey, at the Ridgewood Post Office.[4][5]

Royal Oak, Michigan, in 1991[edit]





The U.S. post office in Royal Oak
On November 14, 1991 in Royal Oak, Michigan, Thomas McIlvane killed five people, including himself, with a rifle in Royal Oak's post office, after being fired from the Postal Service for "insubordination." He had been previously suspended for getting into altercations with postal customers on his route.[6]

Two events in 1993[edit]

Two shootings took place on the same day, May 6, 1993, a few hours apart. At a post office in Dearborn, Michigan, Lawrence Jasion wounded three and killed one, and subsequently killed himself. In Dana Point, California, Mark Richard Hilbun killed his mother and her dog, then shot two postal workers dead.[7]

As a result of these two shootings, in 1993 the Postal Service created 85 Workplace Environment Analysts for domicile at its 85 postal districts. These new positions were created to help with violence prevention and workplace improvement. In February 2009, the Postal Service unilaterally eliminated these positions as part of its downsizing efforts.[8]

Goleta, California, in 2006[edit]

Jennifer San Marco, a former postal employee, killed six postal employees before committing suicide with a handgun, on the evening of January 30, 2006, at a large postal processing facility in Goleta, California.[9] Police later also identified a seventh victim dead in a condominium complex in Goleta where San Marco once lived.[10] According to media reports, the Postal Service had forced San Marco to retire in 2003 because of her worsening mental problems. Her choice of victims may have also been racially motivated; San Marco had a previous history of racial prejudice, and tried to obtain a business license for a newspaper of her own ideas, called The Racist Press, in New Mexico. This incident is believed to be the deadliest workplace shooting ever carried out in the United States by a woman.[11][12]

Baker City, Oregon, in 2006[edit]

Grant Gallaher, a letter carrier in Baker City, Oregon, pleaded guilty to the April 4, 2006 murder of his supervisor.[13] He reportedly brought his .357 Magnum revolver to the city post office with the intention of killing his postmaster. Arriving at the parking lot, he reportedly ran over his supervisor several times. Subsequently he went into the post office looking for his postmaster. Not finding the postmaster, he went back out to the parking lot and shot his supervisor several times at close range, ostensibly to make sure she was dead. He then reportedly fired several more bullets into the supervisor's car.[citation needed]

Grant Gallaher reportedly was on a new route for three weeks and had felt pressured by a week-long work-time study and an extra 20 minutes added to his new route.[citation needed] On the day of his rampage, he reportedly was ahead of schedule on his route and his supervisor brought him more mail to deliver. He allegedly decided to take the matter up with his postmaster on his cell phone and then went home to get his .357 Magnum revolver to exact his revenge. The work climate had reportedly improved from what it was in 1998, the year a 53-year-old union steward at the Baker City post office committed suicide.

Then there is the recent shooting at Umqua Community College here in Roseburg, Or. The shooter also was nondescript, and about as "normal" looking as anyone in that town could be. His rampage in such a conservative, rural community really got people thinking. If it could happen in a small town like Roseburg, it can happen anywhere.

And does anyone remember Aurora, Co. theatre shooting in 2012? Try and identify a threat in a dark theatre. If you could, that guy wouldn't be what you'd expect as a threat. He was a weirdo, but nobody paid any attention to him when he walked into the movie theatre that night.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

Post by sore shoulder »

If you want to know what my training is, you should have read the sentence after the one you quoted.

Identifying threats is important, and easy, if you know what to look for.

While you didn't mention muslims, you said what they (an active shooter/terrorist) look like is irrelevant, I disagree. And I'm in good company. When the head of airport security in Tel Aviv was asked by a reporter how they had avoided terrorist attacks his response was "Profiling, of course". I profile everyone.

All the other shootings you posted are irrelevant in the current climate. Muslims are targeting churches, among other things, and the subject of the original post is securing a church. You can disagree with that all you want. If you don't want to profile and prefer to wait till the bullets are flying or an IED goes off, be my guest.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

Post by handirifle »

Sooo based on the ongoing argument, a muslim is a threat, but a muslim POSTAL WORKER is the biggest threat. :D

Sorry, couldn't resist.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

Post by marlinman93 »

Comparing Tel Aviv airports to anything in the USA is ridiculous. Of course an airport in Tel Aviv has a totally different set of circumstances than the average business in the US has, and thus is looking for very specific types, which profiling provides for them. But to say that recent mass shootings in the US are irrelevant to this thread is ridiculous! They are RECENT and thus exactly what this thread is about! Dylan Roof wasn't a Muslim, and his attack on a church certainly IS relevant. You really need to be a lot more aware of what the threats are these days, as it's coming from everywhere, and you're ignoring many of them from what I see. You say it's "easy to identify threats" and yet you call recent actual shootings by all types of shooters "irrelevant". That's scary if you're the one responsible for stopping these threats.
And please show me some case of a church being attacked by a Muslim terrorist in the USA? I have no doubt they'd like to, as intelligence says they would. But it hasn't happened, and attacks by Muslim terrorists have been elsewhere so far.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

Post by gamekeeper »

Arguments of what the threat may look like aside, I think the video is very useful.Thanks for posting.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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marlinman93 wrote:...And please show me some case of a church being attacked by a Muslim terrorist in the USA? I have no doubt they'd like to, as intelligence says they would. But it hasn't happened, and attacks by Muslim terrorists have been elsewhere so far.
+1.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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Hasn't happened yet. Can't believe that was actually used as an argument. lol
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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Before 9/11 no one had flown a plane into the Twin Towers.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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sore shoulder wrote:Before 9/11 no one had flown a plane into the Twin Towers.
True, but at least one or two hit the Empire State Building. Granted these weren't on purpose, but it did show it could be done.

And think about this, other than the passengers and crew, no one could prevent it from happening again. Very few flights have air marshals on board. Imagine the number of marshals you'd need and the logistics of getting them in place if we had one on all domestic flights, not to mention all of the international flights coming and going.

I can thing of half a dozen ways to get knives on board unnoticed. Firearms a bit harder but only due to their bulk. Still one or two of those will work. And, I don't spend hours on end trying to figure out ways to do it.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

Post by JohndeFresno »

Griff wrote:
marlinman93 wrote:...And please show me some case of a church being attacked by a Muslim terrorist in the USA? I have no doubt they'd like to, as intelligence says they would. But it hasn't happened, and attacks by Muslim terrorists have been elsewhere so far.
+1.
Y'all are kiddng me, right?
I'm thinking of the Senior Center in San Bernardino, very much like a church setting, also a very soft target -
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -live.html

And then there is this church attack by a Muslim -
http://pamelageller.com/2016/10/muslim- ... pree.html/

That search took me, uhhh... 5 seconds. I am sure that there are more. It's just that our Fearless Leader and his cronies have stifled these attacks for fear of losing his great legacy - whatever he thinks that is.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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If you all want, I'm sure the folks who made the video would accept contributions, so they could make a few more, each one with a different 'ethnic' for the shooter. They could be sure to make the percentage of times that each video was shown was proportional to the population, or the statistics in the U.S. of 'mass shooters'.

Or........we could quit being like the liberals, and just view the video as a somewhat reasonable 'tactical drill', instead of focusing on the politically-correct (or incorrect, as you see fit) stereotype of the bad-guy. :roll:
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

Post by Old Ironsights »

My Church (for which I am a member of the "board of Elders" (BoD) ) has been working on this issue for a while. Even at the "district" level we have been working on this, including hosting "Constitution, Guns and Doctrine" retreats at churches near gun ranges.

The large majority of the laity in our denomination is "pro-gun" - particularly out west - but the issue really comes down to minutiae and whether or not the church in question has a recognised School on the property (Feds and "school-gun-free-zones")

Anyway, We've come down to a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" meme that seems to work at the "insurance carrier" level.

As an interesting aside:

Wyoming has a bill out there this silly season to divest the State Government entirely from the "marriage issue" by not requiring a State issued "marriage license/certificate" to be wed in WY.

I think this is a really positive thing, as it keeps the Counties & State from being embroiled in "that Clerk won't issue a same-sex "marriage license"" legal issues.

The State/Feds should not be involved in marriage (either a Sacrament or just a Ceremony, depending on one's Doctrine) in any way. Wyoming would be the first State to tell radical "Gay Marriage" activists that... the State is not involved... get married in a Church that will marry you, but no Church that refuses will be held in contempt of "equal protection" law because there IS NO "State Law" on marriage.

I think it's brilliant.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

Post by JerryB »

Well said my good Doctor!!!!!!! I have thought of several ways to say what you did, but they just did not fit me or this fine forum. Thank you again.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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Gee doc, using the lib tag to shut down people with dissenting opinions on an issue is kind of a cheap shot and a bit beneath you. I'm a little surprised actually.
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Re: Church (and other gatherings) Run Hide Fight video

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Just trying to make the point that the real focus of the video is teaching non-sheepdog types to act sanely and logically if a bad-guy comes along.

The less stereotypic (i.e. 'raghead-looking') the portrayed bad-guy is, the better, so the focus remains on how to react, instead of who to react to.

I suppose a montage type video where the shooter was shown in a variety of garbs and so on each time the video kicked back to the shooter could have made the point better: that the bad-guy may look Muslim, redneck, Nazi, psychotic, agitated, calm, and be old, young, black, white, male, female or even in uniform.
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