Defense style pump shotguns. Interesting twist.

[Griff]

Unfortunately you 870 guys are living in the past.
Sadly I would choose a 500 in a second over a new 870. What Remington has become is shameful.

My 870 IS from the past.

Yep, steel receiver, good wood, well fitted. Cost: $11

[Old Ironsights]

http://www.gundigest.com/tactical-gear/ ... dium=email

[Grizz]

not mine, but this is what mine looks like.

very handy jumping in and out of skiffs hunting the beaches and guard timber.

the backup to my redhawk . . ,

moss.png

[Lefty Dude]

I installed Brownells Big Head Safety's on all my 870's and 1100's many years ago. Lots of years of shooting and safety manipulation is so ingrained in me I am poking for it whenever I try to shoot a messburg. There is no action as slick as an early 870 "Wingmaster" .

My early 870 "Wingmaster" is a 16 gauge, made in 1954. I picked her up at a Gun Show several Years ago for $100.00. She is in excellent condition, and resides in the Bed room next to our bed.

They do not make them like they did back in the early days of the 870's.

[Pete44ru]

WHOA ! ! - Now, THAT'S worth paying the BATF freight on ! !


BTW - Here's what Winchester has to say about the SXP Defender pump gun:

Today's SXPs are designed and production is overseen by our R&D team in Morgan, Utah.

The SXP's are then manufactured in our partner factory in Istanbul, Turkey. (Which used to be called Constantinople)
Istanbul is a key manufacturing and trade center for Europe.
Some SXP parts are sourced from our other Winchester group factories in Western Europe.
SXPs are available in field models and Defender versions, and they are all assembled in the same factory.

In an interesting bit of history, large numbers of Winchester Model 1866s were sold to the Turkish government in 1870 and Oliver Winchester himself, visited Constantinople (Istanbul) shortly thereafter to secure more sales of other firearms and ammunition.



.

[piller]

Not a short barrel, but I gave my old 870 wingmaster 20 gauge to my son. I bought it about 1984 and used it on a lot of pheasant. It was stolen and used by my younger brother while I was in the Army. He told his buddies that it was his. I got it back and he was the worse for wear. That gun has never failed. Slick action and it works perfectly even after more than 30 years and several thousand rounds. I have a Mossberg 12 gauge model 500. The front stock has no checkering and is way too slick in damp or cold weather. Maybe 400 rounds total. I am still looking for a used 870 or 1100 to trade it in on. First, last, and only Mossberg shotgun for me. The idiotically slick front stock is not the only issue. I want something which cycles reliably.

[2ndovc]

WHOA ! ! - Now, THAT'S worth paying the BATF freight on ! !


BTW - Here's what Winchester has to say about the SXP Defender pump gun:

Today's SXPs are designed and production is overseen by our R&D team in Morgan, Utah.

The SXP's are then manufactured in our partner factory in Istanbul, Turkey. (Which used to be called Constantinople)
Istanbul is a key manufacturing and trade center for Europe.
Some SXP parts are sourced from our other Winchester group factories in Western Europe.
SXPs are available in field models and Defender versions, and they are all assembled in the same factory.

In an interesting bit of history, large numbers of Winchester Model 1866s were sold to the Turkish government in 1870 and Oliver Winchester himself, visited Constantinople (Istanbul) shortly thereafter to secure more sales of other firearms and ammunition.



.

The Turks used their Winchesters and Martinis quite effectively against the Russians in the Third Battle of Plevna. Though the Turks eventually lost to the Russians the battle had introduced the repeating rifle to European warfare.

jb

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Not a fan of 870's. I used them for years on the P.D. and a found them poorly built and needing constant repair/maintenance. After I retired I was the armorer for a private company and found 870's to be ..........stuff. I personally own an older Mossberg 500 and it has functioned beautifully. I don't know if the recently built Mossbergs are as good but my old one is here to stay.

What sort of repairs?
My only beef with the mossy is the plastic safety's located in a bad place so they get damages regularly.

No answer so far.

Does anybody else know of problems with the 870's? Particularly from those of you that were/are dept armorers.

[gregg]

Not a fan of 870's. I used them for years on the P.D. and a found them poorly built and needing constant repair/maintenance. After I retired I was the armorer for a private company and found 870's to be ..........stuff. I personally own an older Mossberg 500 and it has functioned beautifully. I don't know if the recently built Mossbergs are as good but my old one is here to stay.

What sort of repairs?
My only beef with the mossy is the plastic safety's located in a bad place so they get damages regularly.

Dirt behind the shell stops which prevented it from cycling rounds out of the magazine. Those shell stops are staked to the reciever and it is nearly impossible to get it all out. Mod berg shell stops are remove able. Also, the 870 require and extension to get more capacity. Adding an extension required peening a dimple out of the tube and there's a lip where the extension mates and that can cause issues. Mossbergs come with full length extended tubes

I'm no gun smith. I'm no armorer. Just a gun guy. I have never heard 870 weak and always breaks? Trap shooters ,Hunters from different time when ducks blacken the sky and game birds everywhere and not many cared if you hunted there fields. VN vet friend carried 870 in the country and guess what he owns now. From a guy that showed me how to get shell stops out with hand tools and he would not stake shell stops back in and seem to work find. I cleaned mind with solvent and brush. I bet solvent and brush and air would had been even better. Mike had a 870 he was cleaning that I would worry some about. at lock up you could move the bolt back and forth with your finger seemed like 1/4 in. . I don't think it was that bad but bad and it was still in the field. He grew up not far from where I grew up. so I know how that gun got that way and it was a lot use from family that lived to hunt. When comes to a duty gun I think they have the tool to stake shell stops in ( pull them out?). Then maybe there no real need to remove them. I have not till that day??? I have a friend that got bit with goose bug. I seen him do loads to test that would put warts on the plastic AA hull from the heat..870 just hammered them out. Yes it was a load out some reloading manual he found somewhere. He thought as one of best gunsmiths in ND these days BPCR to anything else. My point is Remington mostly all steel. Trigger guard not. Mossberg al recover and trigger group plastic and steel but lighter unit. Mossberg if not bought with long mag tube you have buy barrel and tube. Rem just extension. As said here drill out dimples. I have no Idea how well extension tubes work. I know they work but bet your life on work??? I don't know. I have a Mossberg 930. nice shooting always works. In test they work as well or better than the $1500 auto fighting shotguns. Take it apart and plastic and light weight parts greet your eyes. May be ok in long run? Not where I would bet my life in tuff military operation. OH and they still have plastic safety Nate. My son has a 835? The big pump. and a 930 full mag tube and peep sights. its a ball to shoot. So not a Mossberg hater. Support great.
( Just think 870 tuff as old German 98. May over spoke here. )
See thought we living in pass? maybe?. I remember Rem sand blasting there guns with then no sharp lines and cheap wood and plastic to get the price down to the 500 Moss. Sad day. Can still buy nice 870 for like $700??? Most of us will not spend the money. I have 870 Mom and Dad bought me in 65. Have rem mod 11 from 1921. Nice auto. love it. heavy. Have to adjust recoil system for different loads. people don't like doing that. or care enough to do it. Hoople heads. The freedom group not been kind to us. I fear we will lose our great gun makers. Just matter of time I fear?


Nate Kiowa Jones you sir are a gunsmith and if I miss spoke I will take my beating. That how we all learn. If any of you see flaw my words please put me strait.

[gregg]

http://www.gunblast.com/Armscor-M5.htm
Here nice shotgun all steel. best of all has gunblast seal of approval .
$8 more comes in matte nickel version . looks good







































































4

[Old Ironsights]

Philippine Mossberg Mariner... How could they make a totally reliable, inexpensive shotgun better AND cheaper?

[gregg]

Philippine Mossberg Mariner... How could they make a totally reliable, inexpensive shotgun better AND cheaper?

Point well taken. They say its high standard copy. That makes it easy top off
mag tube.. But I see it looks like your not going to easy or cheaply extend mag tube.
It is all steel. Six shots ,two in butt stock for 8. But all this is in very good write up.
Jeff bought 5 of them.
Spent nice afternoon with Jeff and Terry. Both know there guns .Nice men .. but I must
say I thought about one myself. Other side $200 or little more get old lightly used plain barrel
870. nicely made and steel.
Other side of this the bed side gun or truck gun not going be used that much. Days of dark skys of ducks and pheasant fields are gone here in SD. Pen raise birds that turned lose before a hunt. Ducks many years ago piled up and burned to control the disease. never came back. Im to old to chase them anyway.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Not a fan of 870's. I used them for years on the P.D. and a found them poorly built and needing constant repair/maintenance. After I retired I was the armorer for a private company and found 870's to be ..........stuff. I personally own an older Mossberg 500 and it has functioned beautifully. I don't know if the recently built Mossbergs are as good but my old one is here to stay.

What sort of repairs?
My only beef with the mossy is the plastic safety's located in a bad place so they get damages regularly.

Dirt behind the shell stops which prevented it from cycling rounds out of the magazine.............................

Your experience is about the same as mine. My curioscity is more toward design flaws. I see that plastic safety as a faulty design. I don't really know of any design flaws with the 870.

[vancelw]

Unfortunately you 870 guys are living in the past.
Sadly I would choose a 500 in a second over a new 870. What Remington has become is shameful.

My 870 IS from the past.

As are mine

My 12 and 16 Wingmasters are from 1965. Not sure about my Marine Magnum. It's probably 15 or 20 years old. I'm sure that does make a big difference on quality.

That being said, I'd still buy an older, used 870 over a Mossberg for reliability. The frequent failures with the cartridge stop is a deal breaker for me.