Range Report! New Production 1895 Marlin 45-70

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Panzercat
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Range Report! New Production 1895 Marlin 45-70

Post by Panzercat »

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So we finally got the time to take the 45-70 out to the range, and by 'range' I mean the desert where there is no lack of malleable trash to punch holes in. In short, a good place to evaluate my newest purchase- The Marlin 1895 45-70 with a not-so-common 26in barrel. Seeing as I just blew over $750, the Hornady FTX 325gr round represented the best value for my dollar, so that was what we fed the levergun for this outing.

Fit and finish for this particular 1895 turned out to be very nice. Everything fit well and the wood was well appointed, if somewhat mundane in pattern. The rifle that they offered me from the back room had minute chips in the metal where the receiver met the stock. While almost infinitesimal, I rejected it in favor of the display model. I had also read concerns about how some rifles were finicky about feeding the Hornady Flextips, though this fortunately was not a problem for my rifle. Loaded up with nine rounds, the action is somewhat stiff but workable. I attribute this to being a new rifle.

BOOOM!

Holy crappola. I only had a vague idea of what to expect when pulling the trigger. We had speculated that maybe the 26in barrel would mitigate some of the expected recoil, but since neither of us had ever fired a rifle in this class before, we really had no idea what to expect. The trigger itself was tight, with zero creep. Pushing 325gr of lead down the barrel at 2100fps was no joke and reminded me of dropping slugs out of a shotgun. Accuracy was hampered by my difficulty in seeing the standard gold dot at the end of the barrel easily and would definitely benefit from some third party sighting solution... or a dab of white paint. Extraction of the spent shells was overly tight in some cases, manageable in other though all ejected without fanfare or jamming. Again, I attribute this to being a new rifle, but all primers exhibited strong, positive strikes.

Overall, there is little to complain about in this rifle that couldn't be remedied through break-in. This was a rifle that I was able to fondle before buying so I knew what I was getting into, but it appears as if any QC concerns were unwarranted... Or perhaps they are warranted given the other rifle that was offered up to me. Even so, this particular example is excellent. Of note, a large lever loop is all but necessary in my opinion since I regularly found my knuckles getting banged up and skinned by recoil. A rubberized recoil pad would definitely be a step up from the plain plastic buttstock cap in order to keep my shoulder from getting beat up. Better sights are also a must.

All in all, these are minor complaints for an overall great rifle, especially for a brand marred by production concerns.
...Proud owner of the 11.43×23mm automatic using depleted Thorium rounds.
Pete44ru
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Re: Range Report! New Production 1895 Marlin 45-70

Post by Pete44ru »

.

Thanks for posting your results - that's a good-lookin' shootin' iron.

Although I no longer shoot large bore boomers, long before I backed down, I stopped shooting boolits over 300grs from my .45-70's (a 22" Browning 1886EL & a few different Marlins - an 18" Guide Gun & a 22" Sporter) - especially since the largest game I'm likely to shoot, where I hunt, is large (200+ lb) Maine whitetails.

I would suggest the use of a slip-on leather recoil pad for zeroing & practice, if not hunting - because that shooting is usually done in the warm weather prior to the Fall game seasons.

It's entirely possible that the reason your fingers are getting slammed by the lever is that that stock's a little short for you, letting the gun get a running start.


.
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Re: Range Report! New Production 1895 Marlin 45-70

Post by harry »

I'm pretty sure that all of the 1895 CB guns had 26" barrels, I bought mine in 2003 and that's the only way they came back then.
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Re: Range Report! New Production 1895 Marlin 45-70

Post by Old Savage »

The 26" barrel increases recoil and it also increases the amount of vertical stringing of variance in velocity.
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Re: Range Report! New Production 1895 Marlin 45-70

Post by AJMD429 »

A Williams FP-336 is an easy install upgrade for your sights, and with the aperture removed, it is easy to see the gold bead front sight. Even for my old eyes, I find 4" groups easy at 100 yards with the Williams FP setup.

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http://www.midwayusa.com/product/968159 ... inum-black

I don't have a picture of that exact setup, but here is a thread with some aperture sight pictures
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Re: Range Report! New Production 1895 Marlin 45-70

Post by Old Savage »

4" groups dhould be relatively easy with anything other than just bad vision.
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.45colt
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Re: Range Report! New Production 1895 Marlin 45-70

Post by .45colt »

Glad the rifle is working out so far, I have a Marlin 1895 with the 22" barrel. Like Doc says the Foolproof is the way to go for a way better sight picture. I don't know if You reload for the 45-70 or not but if We load some 300gr cast below 1500fps it suddenly becomes fun to shoot. Good Luck with it.
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Re: Range Report! New Production 1895 Marlin 45-70

Post by Panzercat »

harry wrote:I'm pretty sure that all of the 1895 CB guns had 26" barrels, I bought mine in 2003 and that's the only way they came back then.
Possibly, but I see far more of the trapper/guide guns these days than 26in. In fact, I refer you to 45colt's post. In fact, it was so unusual that I noticed it immediately from the other models.

I knew a Williams solution was waiting out there to be mentioned. You see it all too often around here ;)

Didn't realize the longer barrel would actually contribute to recoil. I figured the 20ish fps per inch above 20" on the barrel wouldn't amount to much.

Interesting theory on my busted up knuckles. A decent recoil pad with an insert or something might remedy that.

Thanks for that link, AJMD429. Very useful.
...Proud owner of the 11.43×23mm automatic using depleted Thorium rounds.
MrMurphy
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Re: Range Report! New Production 1895 Marlin 45-70

Post by MrMurphy »

Why would the longer barrel increase recoil?

I'd figure with the extra weight it would recoil less.
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Re: Range Report! New Production 1895 Marlin 45-70

Post by guido4198 »

Here's a link to the equation used to calculate recoil energy.
As you can see, increasing weight does have the effect of reducing recoil energy HOWEVER....that relationship is only linear.
On the other hand, as velocity is SQUARED in the equation thus velocity changes have more effect than weight changes.

http://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/gun ... oil-energy

I would also recommend installation of a Pachmayer "Decelerator" recoil pad, and acquisition ( either purchase, or make your own) of modest cast bullet loads. If you don't reload, find some cast loads that are manufactured to be suitable for Trapdoor rifles.
You'll be able to enjoy shooting those, and I can tell you from experience that at the moderate ranges we encounter where I hunt ( 50-75 yds)..they work REAL well on Deer and Hogs.
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Re: Range Report! New Production 1895 Marlin 45-70

Post by harry »

Panzercat wrote:
harry wrote:I'm pretty sure that all of the 1895 CB guns had 26" barrels, I bought mine in 2003 and that's the only way they came back then.
Possibly, but I see far more of the trapper/guide guns these days than 26in. In fact, I refer you to 45colt's post. In fact, it was so unusual that I noticed it immediately from the other models.

I knew a Williams solution was waiting out there to be mentioned. You see it all too often around here ;)

Didn't realize the longer barrel would actually contribute to recoil. I figured the 20ish fps per inch above 20" on the barrel wouldn't amount to much.

Interesting theory on my busted up knuckles. A decent recoil pad with an insert or something might remedy that.

Thanks for that link, AJMD429. Very useful.
I was only talking about 1895 CB guns, they all have 26" barrels. Guide guns don't.
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Re: Range Report! New Production 1895 Marlin 45-70

Post by M. M. Wright »

Looks like a fun rifle and the 300 grain, moderate load rounds will make it funner. I have a slip-on leather pad on my 86 n 45-90, (not much difference) and it really helps. I really like a tang sight together with a folding leaf for hunting. Lets me sight in for 100 and 200 yards by just flipping up whichever one I want. My Browning 86 SRC wears the Williams receiver sight and a Skinner blade front for a sight picture my 77 year old eyes can still see.
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Re: Range Report! New Production 1895 Marlin 45-70

Post by Panzercat »

guido4198 wrote:Here's a link to the equation used to calculate recoil energy.
As you can see, increasing weight does have the effect of reducing recoil energy HOWEVER....that relationship is only linear.
On the other hand, as velocity is SQUARED in the equation thus velocity changes have more effect than weight changes.

http://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/gun ... oil-energy

I would also recommend installation of a Pachmayer "Decelerator" recoil pad, and acquisition ( either purchase, or make your own) of modest cast bullet loads. If you don't reload, find some cast loads that are manufactured to be suitable for Trapdoor rifles.
You'll be able to enjoy shooting those, and I can tell you from experience that at the moderate ranges we encounter where I hunt ( 50-75 yds)..they work REAL well on Deer and Hogs.
I was thinking of a lee basic reloader? The all manual kit to get me started...I've already begun to save the brass :)
...Proud owner of the 11.43×23mm automatic using depleted Thorium rounds.
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Re: Range Report! New Production 1895 Marlin 45-70

Post by jkbrea »

I have an 1895 with an 18" barrel. It has a limbsaver recoil pad. Even with a prior shoulder replacement, it feels fine. Mine shoots great groups with those flex tips. Enjoy your new rifle!
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Re: Range Report! New Production 1895 Marlin 45-70

Post by Griff »

Let me think... hmmm... could it be that 325 grains @ 2100fps might be the cause of the recoil? My Sharps is about 12 lbs... and it's 350 grain pills at 1590fps is bad enough! What's that Marlin weigh? About 7-½? Quite a bit less than my 1886, and I only push my 325 grain lead bullets at about 1350.
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Re: Range Report! New Production 1895 Marlin 45-70

Post by williamranks »

My Guide Gun also bruised my finger so I went with the DRC over size lever, it's not as big as the others I've seen and gives room to pad the front if needed. It needed a little fitting by filing the ball shaped end of the arm where it fits inside the bolt to stop it from hitting the top of the receiver.

The worst round for recoil I ever used was Remington 350 gr HPs. They must use a fast burning powder, because the recoil is a nasty snap instead of a heavy push.
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Re: Range Report! New Production 1895 Marlin 45-70

Post by TravisM »

Thank you for posting this. I'm glad you like your new rifle and that it works great. The points you gave us are very helpful for everyone that comes next wondering how the new leverguns are in terms of quality, durability, fit/finish, and usability.

Your experience also explains to me the popularity of the large loop for practical terms. Except for hunting with gloves in the northern regions, I felt the large loop was more for looks than necessity.

Lesson learned. :D
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Re: Range Report! New Production 1895 Marlin 45-70

Post by guido4198 »

I'm another who failed to realize the physical advantages offered by the large levers. I also thought they were merely a cosmetic thing some folks found attractive. On my 45/70 Guide gun, I sewed a piece of deer skin over the lever that cushions the sensation of the lever hitting my fingers good enough to keep it from being a problem.
I've never used the Lee loader mentioned, so I can't directly comment on it's suitability.
I can assure you however that in my experience, the 45/70 is one of the easiest rounds to load I've ever enjoyed, and there's an enormous number of well documented, safe combinations out there to try in your rifle.
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Re: Range Report! New Production 1895 Marlin 45-70

Post by TraderVic »

Back when Marlin was Marlin, they made a number of "limited run" guns for Davidsons. Some of these runs included variations of the 45/70 CB with barrels shorter than the now standard 26" barrel. I believe their first 45/70 CB had a 24" octagon barrel ( same as my 30-30 CB ). Other offerings had round/octagon barrels, and some had 20' barrels. Some limited run offerings were 1 of 500 and some were 1 of 1000, depending on the specific model.
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Re: Range Report! New Production 1895 Marlin 45-70

Post by wolfdog »

Glad you got a good one. The last couple of late production Marlins I have seen were not pretty. On one of them the sights were about 5 or 6 degrees off, front sight was in the right place, rear sight dove tail was cut at an angle.
The Leverrevolution ammo can be quite accurate, but it is a shoulder bruiser. Also I have not been happy with it's performance on deer sized game. I have had a lot better luck with 300 grain JHP on deer and a lot less recoil in factory ammo. And a last bit about the Brass, the factory Leverrevolution brass is about 1/16 of an inch shorter than standard 45/70 brass so you have to take that into account when reloading.
I would for sure get a receiver sight, most of mine are Williams FPs, but there are some other options that work.
The 45/70 and Lever action rifle is one of the best ammo/rifle combinations ever to come down pike, enjoy.
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Re: Range Report! New Production 1895 Marlin 45-70

Post by AJMD429 »

Panzercat wrote:I was thinking of a lee basic reloader? The all manual kit to get me started...I've already begun to save the brass :)
I've used the Lee 'mallet' type kit, an RCBS RockChucker, Dillon RL-550, and a Lee Quad-Turret, and they all work. The Turret is my favorite overall, but they all work. Starting with the little mallet kit isn't silly, even if you go to a 'real' press later.
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Re: Range Report! New Production 1895 Marlin 45-70

Post by Grizz »

Panzercat

Congrats on a great rifle. I have a different take on recoil, velocity, and bullet weights. My 45/70s range in barrel length from 18 inches to 32 inches. I have shot bullets ranging from 325gr to 525gr in rifles and pistols.

In my experience, light for caliber bullets, below 400gr, recoil harder than the heavy for caliber bullets, if the light bullets are pushed up in velocity.

A 425gr bullet tossed out at 30-30 velocities will shoot flatter than the heavies, will notify you when it departs, but will not punch as many water jugs as a 525gr bullet loafing along at 1425 fps. That load is moderate recoil, has been shot from my guide gun by guys and gals, and no one complains about recoil. It is in the zone of a 12ga 2-3/4 bird shot load. Something I think of as 'normal' recoil. It is fine from a 10 inch BFR and a Thompsen Center single shot. We shoot it from the steel buttplate H&R with no drama or trauma. All this to dispel the idea that a heavy bullet at moderate velocities makes brutal recoil. Just the opposite it seems to me, I get a 'push' rather than a 'strike' effect.


In general, the heavier and slower bullet will out-penetrate the lighter and faster bullets with much less recoil Penetration is a function of bullet construction and momentum, if that's a measure you're interested in.

If really light recoil is desired, then a light bullet pushed by a light charge for reduced velocity is the ticket. I had a load that went click, pause, clang with not much recoil.

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