Mew 30-30. Marlin or Mossberg

TravisM · Post by **TravisM** » Sun May 01, 2016 8:27 pm

I know that many here are fans of buying used, but someone needs to buy the new stuff otherwise they will stop making them all together.

I figure I'm a good candidate for that role. I'm not going to hunt with it, I'm not looking for a collectors piece. It is going to be a range tool and a companion to my Henry .22. (I also think that the classic models should be owned by the hunters and collectors that will appreciate them more. People like you.) I want one that I'm not worried about dropping or knocking or scratching. I think my soul would die a little if I did that to a Winchester or JM Marlin.

Now I had both a Mossberg and a Marlin before:

The Mossberg was a first year 464 straight stock, but I wasn't shooting it well and was lured by the thought of a .357 Magnum levergun to match my revolver.

The Marlin was 1894 .357 made right Remington made them move. (Jam-o-matic!) I grew to hate the thing so much that I actually missed my HiPoint Carbine more! It was the quickest sell off ever.

So, again, why a new one? I do believe that Marlin (Remlin) has honestly tried to correct their mistakes and are making better rifles now. Mossberg has also gotten into their groove and are getting good reviews. (Based on web searches and reviews from non-magazine sources that get their income from advertising.)

Why not Rossi or Henry? Well Rossi's Rio Grande looks like the Marlin, so why not just get the Marlin. As for the Henry, well I really hate the fact that they don't have a side loading gate. I barely tolerate the tube loading on a .22 and just can't bring myself to do it on a large caliber carbine/rifle. Call it a personality flaw.

Now this is what I do know:

It will be in 30-30. I already have both a small and medium caliber rifle and want a large caliber to complete the set. The store that I will be buying it has the Marlin 336 in stock and the Mossberg 464 their second store. The Marlin they have in stock looks like the "W" edition with a flat black finish and non glossy stock. I'm going to ask for them to bring the Mossberg over so I can compare the two side by side. I'll check the balance, grip, sights, and stroke. Whichever feels best in the hand will come home at the end of June.

I'll be glad to have a full bore lever action again.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun May 01, 2016 8:49 pm

TravisM wrote:...so I can compare the two side by side. I'll check the balance, grip, sights, and stroke. Whichever feels best in the hand will come home at the end of June.

I'll be glad to have a full bore lever action again.

Methinks you answered your own question. A good plan.

claybob86 · Post by **claybob86** » Sun May 01, 2016 11:57 pm

Tough call there! Looking forward to hearing your decision.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon May 02, 2016 12:19 am

Seems you're looking for a truck gun. How about looking for an older, pre-safety 336?

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Mon May 02, 2016 1:24 am

I'd buy a used Marlin 336, for me I just bought a Henry Big Boy Steel in .357mag, I don't miss the loading gate... :)

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Mon May 02, 2016 2:44 am

I will be interested in how "you" think they compare and which one you choose.

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Mon May 02, 2016 9:20 am

I don't see the problem here. pay the money and take Your chances. either one may be o.k. or need to go back to see the parts changer. No way I would buy either one. Too many J.M. Marlins out there. Good Luck.

TraderVic · Post by **TraderVic** » Mon May 02, 2016 11:46 am

I agree with "not settling", and look for a used "JM" Marlin. There are a lot of good, solid 30-30 Marlins out there that you would enjoy owning and shooting.

My next lever gun will very likely be a Henry Big Boy Steel .357.........I have no problem loading ( and unloading ) into and/or out of the magazine tube, but that's just me. My Marlin 30-30 CB is a pleasure to hold, carry and shoot.

TravisM · Post by **TravisM** » Mon May 02, 2016 5:23 pm

Thanks for the thoughts guys. I'm gonna try and reply to as many as possible. Last first.

Trader Vic: You're right. There are some great Marlins and Winchesters on the used market. The problem is that if no one buys the new, why should anyone make the new? (I will admit that I might buy a used one if it was made on my birth year.) I like the fact that you are looking at the Henry. It's a very good gun from an excellent company. It deserves buyers.

.45colt: Thanks. Part of it IS a leap of faith, but I think a fair review needs to be done. Many magazines are going out of business as more people are looking to places like here to find out how the new guns are doing. (I read many searches here myself.) The last review was about 2012 or 2013. The more reviews we have the better.

gamekeeper: Thank you. I will definitely let you know. I'll be happy to have a 30-30 again.

1894c and BlaineG: I understand where you are coming from. I'm not worried about the safety. I just leave them off anyway.

claybob86: Thanks!

Griff: Thank you. I wanted everything set out so you guys could see the angle I'm coming at.

TraderVic · Post by **TraderVic** » Mon May 02, 2016 5:33 pm

[quote="TravisM"]Thanks for the thoughts guys. I'm gonna try and reply to as many as possible. Last first.

Trader Vic: You're right. There are some great Marlins and Winchesters on the used market. The problem is that if no one buys the new, why should anyone make the new? (I will admit that I might buy a used one if it was made on my birth year.) I like the fact that you are looking at the Henry. It's a very good gun from an excellent company. It deserves buyers.

.........I know - as you mentioned this right off. Since Remington bought out Marlin, the quality of their rifles is only beginning to improve ( after so many pieces of junk left the Remington factory. Time will tell if Remlin will survive on manufacturing and selling 45/70's and 30-30's. That's about all they are making anymore based on what I see and hear from others. Worst of all, the Remlin customer service has been less than stellar. Henry is the complete opposite.

A lot of folks have been wrestling these same alligators over recent years.

Sorry for rambling.....just my .02

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon May 02, 2016 5:35 pm

Lots of great advise above but here's my take on it.

Start your shopping. Look at all the guns you're interested it. Feel them, work the actions, shoulder them. Even though you've owned a few before they are all different and should be individually examined.

Decide what caliber you want, then concentrate on rifles of that caliber.

New or old if you find a good one, buy it.

Joe

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Mon May 02, 2016 7:15 pm

Griff wrote:
TravisM wrote:...so I can compare the two side by side. I'll check the balance, grip, sights, and stroke. Whichever feels best in the hand will come home at the end of June.

I'll be glad to have a full bore lever action again.
Methinks you answered your own question. A good plan.

Well said!

TravisM · Post by **TravisM** » Tue May 31, 2016 12:51 pm

Did some fondeling over the weekend. Definitely like the Mossberg over the Marlin. I want to compare the brush gun (trapper) to the reg version.

Also considering post 64 Winchesters. Found a Sears version for $440. There was a lot of play with the trigger with the hammer in the up/rest position. Is this normal?

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Tue May 31, 2016 4:04 pm

TravisM wrote:Did some fondeling over the weekend. Definitely like the Mossberg over the Marlin. I want to compare the brush gun (trapper) to the reg version.

Also considering post 64 Winchesters. Found a Sears version for $440. There was a lot of play with the trigger with the hammer in the up/rest position. Is this normal?

Yes.

TravisM · Post by **TravisM** » Tue May 31, 2016 4:16 pm

Thanks for the quick reply.

I was on my phone and didn't think to Google it until I got home.

For those that own 464s, Do you have any problems with 150/170 Winchester white box or Remington Core Lokt?

Treeman72 · Post by **Treeman72** » Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:21 pm

My 464 heavily prefers Remington corlokt 170s and the federal 170s. Those group under 1.5", while 150 grain bullets average around 3" at 100 yards

TravisM · Post by **TravisM** » Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:21 pm

Thank you. I'll be shooting mostly at 50 yards, so this is good news.

williamranks · Post by **williamranks** » Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:45 am

I like the Mossy 464 I just bought, but, unless you're handy, avoid the marine coat. Mine's the Davidsons brush gun.
It's a coating containing powdered metal, acts like a fine sandpaper and is all over the internals.
When I got it it wouldn't feed from the mag because the tab on the lever floor plate that lets cartridges onto the carrier needed a polish.
The cartridge rims looked like they had been filed from the coating inside the mag. Polished the inside of the mag with steel wool and oiled it.
Every operating part needed a polish with a Dremel and cotton bob. Didn't remove the coating, just polished it. Now it's smooth.
I knew it before I ordered based on reviews at the Mossberg Owners forum, but I wanted that coating so it wouldn't rust no matter what I did to it.

TravisM · Post by **TravisM** » Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:57 pm

Thanks.

The Davidson's brush gun is actually what I am interested in though I haven't made a final decision. It gets very wet where I live and I like the idea of having to worry less about rust. I am fairly handy and should have no trouble polishing the parts if I do go this route. To be honest, I like the idea of polishing the parts. I feel like it'll make the gun more mine.

williamranks · Post by **williamranks** » Sat Jun 04, 2016 12:16 pm

TravisM wrote:Thanks.

The Davidson's brush gun is actually what I am interested in though I haven't made a final decision. It gets very wet where I live and I like the idea of having to worry less about rust. I am fairly handy and should have no trouble polishing the parts if I do go this route. To be honest, I like the idea of polishing the parts. I feel like it'll make the gun more mine.

When I got mine I sat down in front of the TV and cycled it about 300 times. The lever started to feel slippery and I realized that coating had sanded the skin off the back of one of my fingers.
In Marinecoat I had two choices. The Cabela's with a 20 inch barrel or the Davidsons with a 16 inch. Both have a barrel band so, when the barrel heats up after 5-6 rounds, you may see a drift in point of impact.
With the Cabela's the price is the price. With Davidsons I put in my Zip and found the cheapest local dealer, it was a better deal.
Funny thing, the Mossberg website doesn't list a Marinecoat option.

tman · Post by **tman** » Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:25 pm

Mossberg.

TravisM · Post by **TravisM** » Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:55 pm

williamranks wrote:When I got mine I sat down in front of the TV and cycled it about 300 times. The lever started to feel slippery and I realized that coating had sanded the skin off the back of one of my fingers.
In Marinecoat I had two choices. The Cabela's with a 20 inch barrel or the Davidsons with a 16 inch. Both have a barrel band so, when the barrel heats up after 5-6 rounds, you may see a drift in point of impact.
With the Cabela's the price is the price. With Davidsons I put in my Zip and found the cheapest local dealer, it was a better deal.
Funny thing, the Mossberg website doesn't list a Marinecoat option.

I just checked Cabela's and they don't sell Mossberg leverguns anymore.

I recently watched a video where a guy "disassembled" a 464. (Mostly he just took the bolt and lever system out to clean it better.) The two things I notice is that he stated this voids the warranty, and that the Mossberg 464 uses pins where Winchester uses screws.

So my question is, did the polishing work you did void the warranty?

williamranks · Post by **williamranks** » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:29 pm

A lot of good info in the trouble shooting post here: http://mossbergowners.com/forum/index.p ... action.23/

One thing I didn't see mentioned, the pin that goes through the bolt and lever arm has a groove around it.
The grooved end should be towards the left receiver side, there's a snap spring in the bolt that captures the groove and holds the pin centered so it doesn't rub on the sides of the receiver. Put it in gently and you'll feel it snap into place.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:13 pm

I have to say (even tho nobody asked

) that if Henry 30 WCFs are as smooth, and solid as the Henry .357 I just got, there is no question what kind of 30 wcf I would get.

pshort · Post by **pshort** » Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:54 pm

Blaine,
I've several of the Henrys, from .22 -.45-70.... They're all slick as can be...
(.22, .357, .44mag, .30-30, 1860-Orig, .45-70.... Might be a couple I forgot..)

Paul

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:08 pm

pshort wrote:Blaine,
I've several of the Henrys, from .22 -.45-70.... They're all slick as can be...
(.22, .357, .44mag, .30-30, 1860-Orig, .45-70.... Might be a couple I forgot..)

Paul

I sold my 336 after I got a '51 Winchester 94...The marlin felt like a club....
With a .357, and good 180gr loads, I don't need another 30wcf, in my unexpert opinion. I'm also probably going to get out of the .44 mag business, too.

TravisM · Post by **TravisM** » Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:15 pm

The main thing that stops me from wanting the Henry in the lack of a traditional loading gate. I want that gate and the ability to top off the mag tube if needed. 99% chance I won't need it, yet I still want it.

TravisM · Post by **TravisM** » Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:23 pm

BlaineG wrote:With a .357, and good 180gr loads, I don't need another 30wcf, in my unexpert opinion. I'm also probably going to get out of the .44 mag business, too.

Argh! No! Stop! You're tempting me too much!

I had such heartbreak with my Remlin 94 .357 Jam-o-matic that I don't want to risk it again on a Rossi 92. I want something that will feed and eat whatever factory round I throw in it without hiccup. I also like the idea of being able to use this carbine on Elk at close range if offered the chance. (70 yards or less)

TravisM · Post by **TravisM** » Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:58 pm

So here's the plan:

I'm going to the gun show this Sunday. There I will be on the look out for used Winchester 94s in the 1977 to 81 year range (serial number 4,463.552 to 4,891,952 range), Mossberg 464s (straight stock) with a lean towards the Davidson's brush gun. (Hoping to see one). If I find a JM Marlin with a thin stock I will take a good look at it.

Price wise, I'm figuring $400 to $450 for the Winchesters, $450 for the Mossberg 464 straight stock and $457 for the Brush gun (Mossberg prices are what I can get at my local stores. Actually, after typing this, they are going to need to be cheaper for me to buy from them instead of the local guys.)

Thanks again for all of your help. You've given me much to think about. Special props to williamranks for all his great inside info on the Brush gun.

I'll let you know what happens.

Stay tuned.

Oh. One last question. IF I get a post 64 Winchester, are you guys going to hate me if I drill in sling swivel studs into the stock? Whatever levergun I choose, it's gotta have a sling.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:50 am

TravisM wrote:...IF I get a post 64 Winchester, are you guys going to hate me if I drill in sling swivel studs into the stock? Whatever levergun I choose, it's gotta have a sling.

Why? It's your gun... not 'ours'!

TravisM · Post by **TravisM** » Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:11 am

I just don't want to get yelled at for ruining a piece of history.

TraderVic · Post by **TraderVic** » Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:14 am

TravisM wrote:I just don't want to get yelled at for ruining a piece of history.

Hmmm......personally ( just my opinion ), I don't consider a post 64 Winchester 94 a piece of history.

claybob86 · Post by **claybob86** » Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:16 am

TravisM wrote:I just don't want to get yelled at for ruining a piece of history.

Or get called "Bubba"!

( I don't think sling swivels are gonna put you in that category)

41 Redhawk · Post by **41 Redhawk** » Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:51 am

Here are a couple of ideas for slings without swivels or studs. I have the lace up sling on a muzzleloader and it works well.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/pdfs/cat ... ge_365.pdf

TravisM · Post by **TravisM** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:29 am

41 Redhawk, Interesting. I've never seen that setup before. Thank you.

TravisM · Post by **TravisM** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:22 pm

Got back from the show and a new friend followed me home. A Winchester 94 in 30-30. It's a 1974 vintage according to the vin. (Thanks to Winchester Resources in the article page.) I was really planning on a new Mossberg 464 brush gun, but I just couldn't pass this up. It was only $375!

The barrel is clean, the trigger nice, and the lever action is good. I'm going to take it to a gunsmith to check out the things I can't see or is past my ability. (Checking the headspace) It has some good wear and a nice patina on it, so I will have no worries throwing on some swivel studs for a sling.

Here's some pics.

20160612_135818.jpg

20160612_135809.jpg

Levergun.jpg

I want to thank everyone again for all your thoughts and help. I appreciate all of it.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:31 pm

wecsoger · Post by **wecsoger** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:50 pm

You done good. Glad to see you rescued one, and that seems a pretty fair price.

I wouldn't worry too much about headspace, it's the rare person who shoots one of these levers enough to stretch the action. Majority of them are barely worn in.

Check the barrel, mind the muzzle and give it a good cleaning to make sure you get out any copper fouling.

I love these older guns - I wouldn't have one that I would be crying in my beer if I got it scratched.

TravisM · Post by **TravisM** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:34 pm

Thank you.

Yeah, the headspace is more of a curiosity and a way to comfort the wife. The barrel is beautiful! Very shiny and easy to see all the grooves! I can't wait to go out and shoot it.

It also came with a box and a half of a curios round. Some of you might know about it. Remington Accelerator. They are 55 grain, 22 rounds surrounded by a sabot fitting and pressed into 30-30 brass. Muzzle velocity is 3,400 fps. Given this carbine came from Oklahoma, I'm guessing these were used against prairie dogs.

claybob86 · Post by **claybob86** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:56 pm

Nice grab there, Travis!

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:52 am

TravisM wrote:...Remington Accelerator. They are 55 grain, 22 rounds surrounded by a sabot fitting and pressed into 30-30 brass. Muzzle velocity is 3,400 fps. Given this carbine came from Oklahoma, I'm guessing these were used against prairie dogs.

Wow! Talk about a blast from the past.

TravisM · Post by **TravisM** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:55 pm

I know. I want to see what they do at long distances, but I know I wouldn't be able to see the target.