Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

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JohndeFresno
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Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by JohndeFresno »

Levergunners - Collectively, y'all probably have the right answer for this question. I very rarely have had to check elsewhere!

Without getting into all of the whys and wherefores and talk about limited space, etc:
1) I have filled up all available good, sturdy and permanent bench space with my current setup.
2) I am pretty well decided on getting an additional progressive press (Hornady AP Lock-N-Load) for several reasons.
3) Unless I do some elaborate hookup to a side wall, I need to use just a sturdy small bench for the mount.

Image
Folding bench shown at left; currently I put a heavy plywood sheet on it for an extra table.
What you see is the right side of my garage.

Here is my question, since I have not had experience in trying to use a press in other than a very stable, tight locked in configuration:

Given the fact that force is mainly on a down stroke, and the upstroke is pretty much cammed, will a progressive press work successfully on a loose table (table not bolted to the floor), provided that it is securely bolted onto that bench?

Or will the bench jump all over the place? I have one of those folding tool benches available. I can't build very easily away from the wall, since I park my vehicle in the reloading space when I'm not engaged in that activity.

I know that some folks here have reloaded on what is essentially a strong card table, but I am asking those who use a progressive press with its greater torque demands, if anybody successfully uses or has used one on just a sturdy table.

If the answer is - "no, it doesn't work that well," then I'll have to work on some Rube Goldberg setup with hinged 2X4's or other weird arrangement.

Thanks in advance for the advice.
Last edited by JohndeFresno on Thu Feb 25, 2016 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by Blaine »

:? I dunno....push down on the edge really hard where the press will mount and see what happens. :idea:
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JohndeFresno
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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by JohndeFresno »

I've done that, Blaine, and there is no problem. It's the upstroke that I'm worried about. My workbench is one of these, although it's black...

Image

an $18.50 job that has worked extremely well. Its legs extend out enough to anchor strong force downward; I can put all my weight on it and it does not move. I would probably store it upright in the locker to the right.
Last edited by JohndeFresno on Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by jhrosier »

A buddy built a bench with a 1/2" steel plate mounted.
The plate is drilled and tapped to accept any one of several loading presses.
The presses are stored on a nearby shelf until needed.

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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by Pete44ru »

jhrosier wrote:A buddy built a bench with a 1/2" steel plate mounted.
The plate is drilled and tapped to accept any one of several loading presses.
The presses are stored on a nearby shelf until needed.

Jack
+1

Which means that you don't need a separate bench for the progressive loader - just make a steel plate with ALL the appropriate loader's mounting holes drilled in it, remove the two loaders currently there, and secure the plate to the middle of your existing "bench: (unless you intend to run two loaders simultaneously, one with each hand ;) ).


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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by AJMD429 »

You could put some boards on the crossbars that are 6" or so off the floor, and lots of weight there, if you wanted to be sure the table wouldn't lift up any.
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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by JohndeFresno »

Thanks, all. I was thinking about the weighted bench, but alas my back isn't all that forgiving anymore. I guess the steel plate is the best answer - at the center where my Rockchucker sits.
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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by sore shoulder »

Mounting the press to a board that can be clamped down with c clamps works very well.
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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by JohndeFresno »

sore shoulder wrote:Mounting the press to a board that can be clamped down with c clamps works very well.
:idea:
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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by gundownunder »

I used one of those saw horses for a temp solution when I moved house and it was a pita.
Because of the leverage you get from the press handle the horse will want to tip toward you on the down stroke
and away from you on the up.
I mounted the press to the end of the horse and then sat with my legs draped over the cross braces.
It works short term but would get awfully painful on a long session.

I can think of 3 solutions;
Clamp the horse to an existing bench or structure,
Bolt it to the floor,
Bolt the horse and your chair to a frame or deck plate so your bodyweight overcomes the leverage.

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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by JohndeFresno »

Good info, Bob. I was wondering about the rocking motion.

The cement floor makes a job out of adding clamps, so the only brace would be something that goes into the side of the garage. It looks like a metal plate on my limited bench space, with two mountings - one for each press - will be the best answer.

I have a Lee Universal Mount, I think it's called. It's a triangle base that accepts several pre-drilled bases with L-shaped metal rails on each side. But I don't think the small metal flange on each side will hold up to prolonged use with a big press and I have never used it.
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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by vancelw »

Clarke Work Bench.jpg
I don't know what your budget it, but I have one of these. Tractor Supply used to sell them, but I was unable to find a link to a USA company that has them. I'm sure something similar can be found at a farm store or lumberyard (is that still a word after Lowe's and Home Depot's invasion?)

If I remember correctly, I found mine on sale and gave 199 to 250 for it. It is very heavy and works great for reloading. The single or 3 drawer modules can be mounted on either side. I finally took the 3 drawer one off and mounted it on anther bench to give me more knee room.

I'm in the process of setting up my newly finished reloading room at this time. I plan on showing it off some when I'm done. I'm going to use the idea of mounting multiple presses on plates that I can swap out. The most I ever use is two at a time when loading large cast bullets. So I have a lubrisizer on one end and a press on the other. Gonna fix them both so I can swap them out and leave different lubes in my 2 different sizers.
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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by 6pt-sika »

JohndeFresno wrote:Levergunners - Collectively, y'all probably have the right answer for this question. I very rarely have had to check elsewhere!

Without getting into all of the whys and wherefores and talk about limited space, etc:
1) I have filled up all available good, sturdy and permanent bench space with my current setup.
2) I am pretty well decided on getting an additional progressive press (Hornady AP Lock-N-Load) for several reasons.
3) Unless I do some elaborate hookup to a side wall, I need to use just a sturdy small bench for the mount.

Image
Folding bench shown at left; currently I put a heavy plywood sheet on it for an extra table.
What you see is the right side of my garage.

Here is my question, since I have not had experience in trying to use a press in other than a very stable, tight locked in configuration:

Given the fact that force is mainly on a down stroke, and the upstroke is pretty much cammed, will a progressive press work successfully on a loose table (table not bolted to the floor), provided that it is securely bolted onto that bench?

Or will the bench jump all over the place? I have one of those folding tool benches available. I can't build very easily away from the wall, since I park my vehicle in the reloading space when I'm not engaged in that activity.

I know that some folks here have reloaded on what is essentially a strong card table, but I am asking those who use a progressive press with its greater torque demands, if anybody successfully uses or has used one on just a sturdy table.

If the answer is - "no, it doesn't work that well," then I'll have to work on some Rube Goldberg setup with hinged 2X4's or other weird arrangement.

Thanks in advance for the advice.
IMH and always biased opinion if I were you I'd make some sort of quick lock down thing in the middle of your present bench like a port with individual bases for the three presses you already have as well as the one you anticipate purchasing . And correct me if I'm wrong but can you not use but one press at any given time ? That way you coul;d store three at all times but make them easily changeable . MEC makes a port type thing that accommodates all their shotgun loaders and with the twist of a couple thumb screws you can slide one out slide another in and redo the screws case solved . To me it's the perfect plan for a person that's space confined .
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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by M. M. Wright »

Put a mounting plate on each press. Get 3 or 4 Carr Lane jig clamps and mount them to your current bench. You could even put 3 locating dowels to slide the plate against then just snap the over-center clamps to hold down the press you want to use. I know, I should have made drawings and all but you can google Carr Lane to see the kind of clamps I'm talking about. They even come with handles that fold down flat when locked.

I don't know if any of your presses requires much pressure on the up stroke but my Dillon really takes a push too seat the primer and with some calibers quite a pull for the upstroke.

If I didn't have enough space I'd buy a storage building and set it in my back yard, wire it for electricity to run a small heat pump through the wall. You could then build very strong benches against 2 walls and lots of shelves wherever you need them.
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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by jnyork »

Here's mine, you might be able to adapt something from this. I got a piece of damaged molded counter top and two damaged cabinet bases at a lumber yard sale about 30 years ago. I glued and screwed a heavy piece of floor underlay to the bottom of the countertop , then glued and screwed the whole shebang to the cabinet bases. I had to take off about 2-3 inches from the bottom of the bases to get the correct height. This is a good heavy setup, has never wiggled a millimeter despite some pretty heavy case forming operations. Hope you can use this:

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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by 1894cfan »

JohndeFresno wrote:I've done that, Blaine, and there is no problem. It's the upstroke that I'm worried about. My workbench is one of these, although it's black...

Image

an $18.50 job that has worked extremely well. Its legs extend out enough to anchor strong force downward; I can put all my weight on it and it does not move. I would probably store it upright in the locker to the right.

Place a couple boards on the lower cross members and put a couple FULL 50cal ammo cans on the boards. Hopefully that will be enough weight to suit ya. HTH
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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by mikld »

More than likely your set up will withstand up and down stroke/pressure, if perfectly straight up and down. Without solid bracing to eliminate left to right movement, your "bench" will most likely wobble, side to side/back and forth.

I used a workmate with a 1" thick piece of counter top for a "reloading bench" for over a year, before I got a dedicated reloading area and I had no problems when F/L sizing 7.62x54r brass, if I made sure I was going directly up and down (I had to rest my feet on the bottom braces and often added sandbags for stability). Any little side to side movement was magnified into a "wobble"...
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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by Bronco »

Like M. M. Wright,


I have take all my presses, lube-resizing tools and mounted them to a 1/4 inch thick piece of aluminum plate, flush with the under side. Large enough to place three or four holes at the outer edges. The plates are pretty much the same size. The outer holes are all the same pattern. When I need to change tools I remove the wing nuts and bolts in the outer pattern, on the plate. Take the tool off and replace with the new one. Match up the holes and tighten down the wing nuts. All I have is four holes drilled in the bench. The plates stay with each tool they are attached to.
How's that for a Rube Goldberg solution :mrgreen:

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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by earlmck »

My reloading bench for years has been a free-standing one. But it is a lot beefier than your proposed bench, which I visualize as lifting/jumping with both up and downstrokes with any operation requiring much in the way of torque unless you do something to hold it down.

That said, my Hornady progressive and my RCBS A2 (which is real similar to a RockChucker) seem to have about the same up and down torque requirements (as you know -- depending on just which case you are resizing and how tight the primer pockets are). So if that helps any for judging your setup potential?
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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by JohndeFresno »

Thank you, all.

I suspect that all of the above will help other handloaders who, like me, have very limited space (and possibly limited lifting ability due to age and/or misadventure!). I'll claim the misadventure bit, since 70 ain't that old when you compare it with, say, the mountains in Yosemite.

As for me specifically, I can't see bending over and lifting heavy stuff, but I have decided to bypass the Lee kit, which probably is not as sturdy as that MEC plate that I viewed online.
Image

The press on the right (Lee Turret) is indeed mounted on a steel plate bolted onto the sturdy wood cabinet, to offset it from the drawer behind it.

After cogitating on your answers, I'm going to follow the great advice of several here and have a heavy steel plate machined for each of two presses (Rockchucker and future Hornady AP), use existing holes or mate new holes to the plates and use wingnuts and washers (facing up for ease and speed) for whichever application needed. I like having my permanently set .44 Mag progressive press where it is, since that is generally what I shoot. And I still like the super quick change of the preset turrets for small loads on the Lee Turret.

I decided on getting a Hornady AP Lock-n-Load, for several reasons. I don't like the fact that I'll have to shell out around $38 for each of the unique shellplates - 45 calibers, 357/38 calibers, other pistol and rifle calibers. But otherwise, the price is still pretty amazing for what you get. Here is why I like this press, after much research which included a lot of helpful comments on this forum:
* I insist on hand priming each round. No jams, no fussing with changing tubes and cleaning them, no repriming if a progressive load gets stuck. I can be sure that the primer is set in properly. It gives me something to do inside with my wife while we watch something on TV or talk.

* But - putting each case into the single-stage (Rockchucker) or turret (Lee) press and then taking it out just to size or size and deprime it is wasted motion.

So, with the Hornady:

1) Its quick Lock-n-Load system allows you to use only the sizing die without having to reset the dies later; they are locked into their rings and removed by twisting and unclicking. I can put in a case, pull the lever, put in another case, and so on - without removing it. It is walked around the carousel and dumped into a container, saving a great deal of time and motion. T

Checking the various posts here and several YouTube videos, the Hornady ejection system is not perfect but it is actually quite good - with a simple spring that surrounds the shellplate that holds the rounds.

2) The quickest changeover for loads except my Lee Turret. Once dies are set, you just lock them in for a load.

3) Since I size and deprime separately, I can remove that die and use the 5 stations with more freedom. I can use a Powder Cop die to speed up the process, insuring that there are no light or heavy dumps.

4) Bullet types within a caliber are more quickly adjusted because I don't have to set a crimp. I can place my Lee FCD for that caliber in the extra station. With my current progressive setup, I crimp on the other press because of the same reason - quicker changeovers (setting) for different bullet lengths, and a consistent crimp every time.

5) And incidentally, I like that the powder dispenser only works when there is a case in the revolving station - no having to disconnect the dump arm while setting up the first two stations. Very cool.

I guess this sounds like an ad. But perhaps the above will be helpful for other folks starting out in handloading. If the press turns out to work as I think it will, I will be selling a lot of Turret stuff - and the Lee press - at very good price to somebody; it sure would save a lot of space.
Image

Close-up of some turret setups in cabinets above presses
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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by sore shoulder »

I have a half dozen Lee turrets set ups with their own powder measures. I don't think there is a more practical press than the Lee turret for most chamberings. The ability to instantly swap what youre loading and choose between single stage or auto index is invaluable. Lee makes some real junk, the Lee progressive 1000 being a stellar example, but they got it right with the turret press and their disk powder measure system. With the auto index I can crank out a lot of rounds in a short period of time with total control of every stage.
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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by JohndeFresno »

Yes - the Lee Turret is a great one! Mine is a very old one, much used by its previous owner, and still cranking out reliable loads for me without any problems. I have 28 setups with 7 preset powder measures (15 calibers now, if I recall).

The Lee is very quick to use for a box of shells; just drop the turret in and load. Some are just for sizing with and without decapper, preset Lee Crimp dies, and several are different seater settings. That is, more than one setup for various 45 Colt loads, for instance. I wish I had those setups when Griff graced California with his presence; I could have had some cowboy rounds loaded for him on short notice during his brief Sunday appearance at an SASS match in Fresno.

Edit: Brother-in-law has stated he wouldn't mind having the Turret press. The autoindex is not set up, so it is a bit slower, but very reliable.
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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by sore shoulder »

That's a shame on the auto index, it's nearly as fast as a progressive but with a lot more control. I wonder if a call to Lee might not sort it out. Calls to Lee are sometimes interesting due to his ego, but he is not afraid to answer the phone and try to help.
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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by Griff »

I've used a similar table to use as a portable setup:
Image

I normally only use it for seating when testing various loads, but have mounted one of my Dillons to it to run some 5.56NATO before my rebuild of the main reloading bench was complete and I needed the ammo. Mounting the press to a board to then be c-clamped to the table is a good way to go. You just need to make sure the front edge of your board is a directly over the front legs as possible.
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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by Ben_Rumson »

+1 sore shoulder The press is bolted on a 2x6 about 10" long .... Clamps anywhere...Edit Even at the range :D
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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by jeepnik »

JohndeFresno wrote:I've done that, Blaine, and there is no problem. It's the upstroke that I'm worried about. My workbench is one of these, although it's black...

Image

an $18.50 job that has worked extremely well. Its legs extend out enough to anchor strong force downward; I can put all my weight on it and it does not move. I would probably store it upright in the locker to the right.
That looks similar to an Black and Decker Workmate. I messed around trying to figure out how to use it for reloading. I figured unless I bolted it to the floor it would move around too much for my liking.
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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by JohndeFresno »

jeepnik wrote:That looks similar to an Black and Decker Workmate.

Yes, mine actually is. This was a photo from the Internet. Good information, Jeepnik - thanks.

Ben_Rumson, I like the idea of a simple section of 2x4 as a mount. Easy to do, replaceable, and I don't have to pay some metal shop to cut and drill a chunk of iron as I have done before; my heavy duty shop equipment is minimal. And a huge bonus is that it moves the swing mechanism of the arm above the bench so that it doesn't interfere with the drawers.

Right now, I have to lower the Turret press arm (on the right) to open the drawer. No huge thing, but not really elegant, either.

sore shoulder, I have looked at my Lee Turret press again and noticed that it does not auto-index because the middle spindle was removed. I may have done that years ago; I use one station at a time because I do the priming by hand! I've had it a long time now, and my handloading time is longer than my memory span these days.
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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by pokey »

careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by JohndeFresno »

Thanks, Pokey -
I have one of those but have never used it. It is nicely made. Typical of Mr. Lee, he cleverly drilled all the combinations of holes into the blocks that you might need to mount his equipment.

The downside is that the little bent metal flanges (called Z Brackets) don't look like they would stand up well to a heavy progressive press, especially if you add a bullet feeder device. Several reviewers like it; a few others have validated this concern.
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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by markinalpine »

Can you run a brace up to a roof rafter?
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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by JohndeFresno »

markinalpine wrote:Can you run a brace up to a roof rafter?
Mark :?:
Not a bad idea! In that way, I could use bolts so that it could swing against the cabinets. I would have to anchor the garage wall side of the setup with some type of hood, and the roof brace could possibly take the weight and steady it.

I have been thinking of how to put the press away from the bench and still have safe clearance for my PU truck when I drive it back into the garage at night (without scraping the right side).

I'll put that in my ol' cogitator. Thanks, Mark.

BTW, I have had a couple of inquiries on the excellent little Lee Turret, but brother-in-law wants it. I have edited a post above.
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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by marlinman93 »

A less than solid table will work with a single stage press, but with a progressive I think you'll want a very solid table to attach to. I had a progressive set up on a table that had some flex, and it let the press wiggle or shake just a little during the reloading process. The biggest problem came from the primer feed tray/tube. The shake would occasionally displace a primer, and I'd end up with a loaded case with no primer, or the press locking up.
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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by JohndeFresno »

marlinman93 wrote:A less than solid table will work with a single stage press, but with a progressive I think you'll want a very solid table to attach to. I had a progressive set up on a table that had some flex, and it let the press wiggle or shake just a little during the reloading process. The biggest problem came from the primer feed tray/tube. The shake would occasionally displace a primer, and I'd end up with a loaded case with no primer, or the press locking up.
That's exactly why I have not trusted auto prime setups and have always used hand priming - hit and miss primers. But with the Hornady it looks like the system is more reliable - so I might want to use it. Thanks for the advice.
Hairtrigger
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 155
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:02 pm
Location: NW Ohio

Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by Hairtrigger »

I cringe at the word "engineering "
I used to work with a very talented fabricator who said often
" if you want to build it, build it. If you want to @&$k it up, engineer it"
More often than not he was right
I am one gun away from happy
Greg S in AK
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Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:42 am
Location: Alaska

Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by Greg S in AK »

http://www.patmarlins.com/product/rockd ... ing-mount/

Check this site out for ideas, you could do so ething simular. He makes press specific mounting plates that fit into a mount you install on your bench. He also makes a shelf so you can store the press when note in use.
JohndeFresno
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Re: Reloading Bench Question - Engineering

Post by JohndeFresno »

Greg S in AK wrote:http://www.patmarlins.com/product/rockd ... ing-mount/

Check this site out for ideas, you could do so ething simular. He makes press specific mounting plates that fit into a mount you install on your bench. He also makes a shelf so you can store the press when note in use.
Greg - Welcome to the forum!

I would pay about that price just to have a machine shop drill some holes in metal to accommodate my plans.

And that heat plate idea, using an iron, is a great idea for anyone using a lube press.

This looks very good. Thank you for this link.
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