Deer killed ---is this bullet performance good?

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cvarcher
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Deer killed ---is this bullet performance good?

Post by cvarcher »

I shot a whitetail buck the other day at about 35yds. I was using a marlin 1894c in 357mag with my reloads . They were 16grains of lil gun and hornady 158gr XTP hollow points. The deer ran 40 feet stopped and collapsed. When I examined the wound the entrance hole was the size of a half dollar and there was no exit. When I field dressed him the heart and lungs were liquified as if in a blender which just poured out the cavity.Most of my deer I kill are by razor head arrow shot from my longbow so its a clean slice thru and the blood runs out partially and the rest after I field dress. So did this Hornady bullet work correctly? Seems like it may have expanded too much and fast. Wouldnt it be better to have a pass thru with a mushrooming semi jacketed soft point??
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Re: Deer killed ---is this bullet performance good?

Post by Chuck 100 yd »

It sounds like that load could be slowed down a bit to make for less violent bullet expansion. Or use those bullets for self defense ,target practice or varmints at the current velocity and find a tougher bullet to hunt with. I like the XTP bullet but they are made to expand at pistol,short barrel velocity,and can really open up violently at high speed.

Example, Hornady makes .45 caliber XTP's that expand at .45 Colt velocity ( soft Jackets) and .45 bullets meant for the .454 Casull (harder,heavier jackets) . The bullets meant for the .45 Colt will destroy a lot of meat and copper foul the bore when pushed to .454 velocity.
FLINT
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Re: Deer killed ---is this bullet performance good?

Post by FLINT »

deer on the ground within 40 feet sounds like it worked fine to me. I don't think you should expect too much penetration from a hollow point pistol bullet. You could try a flat point bullet if you want more penetration.

I shoot the 300 gr .452 mag XTP HP in my muzzleloader. Shot two deer this year. One passed through, the other didn't. Both deer expired quickly. No complaints. no plans to change anything.
EdinCT
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Re: Deer killed ---is this bullet performance good?

Post by EdinCT »

I would want a Soft Point if you had hit a shoulder knuckle you may not of fared so well. If all you will shoot is a broadside target it will work ok if no major bones are struck. Like the bow.
jnyork
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Re: Deer killed ---is this bullet performance good?

Post by jnyork »

The deer fell over dead in 40 feet.

The heart and lung were "liquefied".

What else do you want? :D
m.wun
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Re: Deer killed ---is this bullet performance good?

Post by m.wun »

If you like the bullet move up to the 180 gr version with the proper amount of same
Powder.More bullet with tad less speed and viola!
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BrianSH
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Re: Deer killed ---is this bullet performance good?

Post by BrianSH »

A sample of one is no sample. Drop a few more deer with that load and come up with a base-line of performance. Read Paco's article about 357 in a rifle, is a whole different animal. - Brian
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Re: Deer killed ---is this bullet performance good?

Post by Griff »

BrianSH wrote:A sample of one is no sample. Drop a few more deer with that load and come up with a base-line of performance. Read Paco's article about 357 in a rifle, is a whole different animal. - Brian
Yep.
Chuck 100 yd wrote:It sounds like that load could be slowed down a bit to make for less violent bullet expansion. Or use those bullets for self defense ,target practice or varmints at the current velocity and find a tougher bullet to hunt with. I like the XTP bullet but they are made to expand at pistol,short barrel velocity,and can really open up violently at high speed.

Example, Hornady makes .45 caliber XTP's that expand at .45 Colt velocity ( soft Jackets) and .45 bullets meant for the .454 Casull (harder,heavier jackets) . The bullets meant for the .45 Colt will destroy a lot of meat and copper foul the bore when pushed to .454 velocity.
This. Or if more penetration is desired, use a SP.
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walks with gun
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Re: Deer killed ---is this bullet performance good?

Post by walks with gun »

One of my buddies went back to SP ammo after having the hollow points blow up on big deer, I think better penetration with the soft points would leave a better blood trail.
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Re: Deer killed ---is this bullet performance good?

Post by Lastmohecken »

You can't judge bullet performance by only one instance. As long as you make the same type of shot, you should be good. If you had used a heavier soft nose bullet you would probably had had a pass through, but possibly not as much damage and the deer might have went a little farther before dropping but that is only a guess based on my experiences, others will have different opinions, based on their experiences.

However, like someone else said, if you had hit a lot of bone, maybe from a different angle, your bullet might not have penetrated deep enough. Personally, I like a heavier bullet that will hold together and pass through even when hitting bone, although the kill might or might not be as quick.

At any rate sometimes it takes a lot of shooting, on a lot of game to draw any solid opinions or shall we dare to call it data on a bullet or load.
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Re: Deer killed ---is this bullet performance good?

Post by Buck Elliott »

Your half-dollar size entrance hole suggests that your bullet may have hit something else before it hit the deer.. Just thinking out loud here, but I've seen it happen several times before..
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FWiedner
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Re: Deer killed ---is this bullet performance good?

Post by FWiedner »

Sounds to me like the bullet did what it was designed to do, i.e., that's destroy soft tissues.

I'm in agreement with the post above... If you're looking for a pass-through wound, assuming a flat broad-side shot, go to a SP of the same weight or heavier. The SP will also get deeper penetration from other angles.

Personally, I'm not a fan of HP hunting ammunition for much of anything but small varmints.

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Re: Deer killed ---is this bullet performance good?

Post by Nate Kiowa Jones »

Go with the XTP SP. On fur bearing game the hollow points tend to load up and expand too soon.
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cvarcher
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Re: Deer killed ---is this bullet performance good?

Post by cvarcher »

Plenty of great comments ,im glad I chimed in. I dont think the bullet hit anything before hitting the deer,but I was surprised at the huge entry hole . It looked like a clear broadside shot that went thru the ribs and exploded. I agree Im not that happy with the explosive hollow point and now realize it was designed for pistol velocity.The lil gun load I used drives it to just over 1800fps.I thought the same thing ,what if it hit bone hence the reason I thought a soft point head would serve me better. I wasnt aware that Hornady makes an XTP soft point style. But I will make a change for sure. I know statistically a one shot doesnt prove too much but with the theory behind those hp bullets they were designed for pistol velocity ,so I guess I overdrove them.Thanks everyone for your time.
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TedH
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Re: Deer killed ---is this bullet performance good?

Post by TedH »

FWiedner wrote:Sounds to me like the bullet did what it was designed to do, i.e., that's destroy soft tissues.

I'm in agreement with the post above... If you're looking for a pass-through wound, assuming a flat broad-side shot, go to a SP of the same weight or heavier. The SP will also get deeper penetration from other angles.

Personally, I'm not a fan of HP hunting ammunition for much of anything but small varmints.

:)
Almost word for word what I was going to say.
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Hawkins
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Re: Deer killed ---is this bullet performance good?

Post by Hawkins »

CVArcher,

You might check out this thread from a few days ago:

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=64555

Lots more good info on different bullets out of a .357. According to a reply I got from Hornady, you are exceeding the velocities the 158 XTP Hollowpoint was designed for: "The Terminal Impact Velocity range of those bullets is, 158 grain HP 700 to 1400, flat point (FP) 1150 to 1800 and the 180 grain HP 900 to 1700."

Good luck!

Hawkins
walks with gun
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Re: Deer killed ---is this bullet performance good?

Post by walks with gun »

Most of the HP bullets were designed with handgun barrel velocity, things get pretty fast fired out of a carbine length barrel.
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Re: Deer killed ---is this bullet performance good?

Post by Ji in Hawaii »

I shoot both 44 magnum and 357 magnum from rifles, and through trial and error (though no game lost) came to the conclusion that jsp bullets perform more consistently on big game when fired from a rifle than hollow point bullets. I also found the same to be true with hard cast swc and Keith style bullets. I reserve jhp bullets for handguns.
Dropping within 40 feet is great but will it happen every time? I believe a jsp or hardcast would lessen the margin of error, and nothing wrong with an exit would to leave a heavier blood trail to track if need be.
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cvarcher
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Re: Deer killed ---is this bullet performance good?

Post by cvarcher »

Jacketed flat point XTP will be used for my carbine .Im convinced even though results were quick. I just didnt like the mess inside.I didnt want to go heavier since I like as flat a trajectory across 100 yds as possible.
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Re: Deer killed ---is this bullet performance good?

Post by w30wcf »

If I were to hunt deer with my 357 it would be with 187 gr LBT type bullets. Veral Smith harvested an elk awhile ago and commented that the bullet, impacting at about 1550 f.p.s. went completely through .....1"hole in, 1" hole out. With that kind of penetration, there would be no problem reaching the vitals on a quartering shot on a deer.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/411386 ... box-of-100

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Chuck 100 yd
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Re: Deer killed ---is this bullet performance good?

Post by Chuck 100 yd »

XTP = eXtreme Terminal Performance . It sounds like that bullet performed as designed.
I would rather have Deer meat than Deer pudding. I chose a bullet meant for deep penetration over sudden expansion. A hole on both sides of an animal lets lots of juice leak out. :wink:
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Re: Deer killed ---is this bullet performance good?

Post by BrianSH »

walks with gun wrote:Most of the HP bullets were designed with handgun barrel velocity, things get pretty fast fired out of a carbine length barrel.
Yes, but also remember that when the deer is 100+yards away, the bullet is now impacting at pistol muzzle speeds.
Paco covered this in one of his articles. -Brian
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Re: Deer killed ---is this bullet performance good?

Post by ethang »

I took a doe this morning at about 90 yards with factory 158 Federal SP in a 20 inch Rossi. Two solid shots, one was double lung, one took the top of the heart. Both were pass throughs, the chest cavity was jelly and had a good blood trail. She went about 10 yards.

I am very happy with the performance of both this round, and this rifle.
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