Tuning a Cap 'n Ball Blackpowder Revolver

[Old No7]

I found this info at oh-dark-thirty this morning when I couldn't sleep, and thought this might be informative to some of those here.

While this is meant for revolvers used in competition, even if we don't perform all these steps, many of them will help improve the reliability and shootability of the replica cap 'n ball revolvers we may have. This is really well done and is well pictured & described:

...Tuning a Cap & Ball Revolver - Part 1

...Tuning a Cap & Ball Revolver - Part 2

Given the "sorority house full of nipples" and cap 'n ball guns that Ysabel Kid has, I'd say this will keep him busy for the next 2 or 3 years! (Like he didn't have enough to do already...)

Tight groups.

Old No7

[Griff]

Yep, well written and VERY informative. I found someone that could do my 1st one for me, some ten years prior to that being written. Even tho' I don't have the best of tools or talent, I mighta tried on my own! Luckily, the guy that did my first one was still doin' 'em when I bought my Colt 2nd Gen 1851s. I understand newest repro revolver's from Italy come from the factory with the coil handsprings, I know that Uberti's SAAs have it.

One of the best pieces of advice he gives is about the mainsprings. They're like truck springs for a reason! The other tips and tuning facts he gives will make world's of difference in your C&B revolvers. And are relatable to the Colt SAA also.

[Lefty Dude]

Yep, I shoot Colt clone Cap & Ball revolvers. And Larsen is a fellow Arizona Shooter, I shoot with him often.
I have used his Tuning method on all my Revolvers.
As Larsen states, "All cap and ball Revolvers are sold as assembled Kit Guns". Only the owner decides who will complete the project.
The most difficult part if you decide to do so is, the Hand plunger/spring modification. This is an option. I do all of mine and it improves the performance of the piece as well as the reliability. The hand spring is the weakest link in the whole piece. Usually they break within the first couple of hundred firings with the Pietta and Uberti's. Maybe not so on the Colt second generation Cap & Ball revolvers. Last year I did the Plunger modification on a Shooting Pard's pair of 1851 Navy Colt second Gen's. He had been shooting them in CAS/SASS competition for the last six Years and was concerned they might fail soon. After we made the change to the plunger/spring he was totally amazed with the action difference.

So............. If you own a Colt type Cap & Ball Revolver, it do make a difference. Tune the piece, you will like it more than you thought.

[Ben_Rumson]

I modified my Armsport SS 1858 Remington New Army with a Rogers & Spencer type cylinder bushing ( The idea Colt borrowed for the SAA ) .. It made it an all day shooter.. He mentioned the cylinder bushing in his article...It works like a charm...No dragging and the axel pin comes loose easily... Other thing he talked about was nipples... I tried the kind he mentioned... There is one draw back I noted with a chronograph and that was reduced velocity.. Bottom line smaller flame...also the groups weren't any better... Another thing I did with the nipples was reduce their height so the caps (Nobel) fit on tight with the net result that they spilt when fired and then fall off when the piece is cocked for the next shot. It seems when they split they're spread open so much they don't make it through the frame opening for the hammer

[Chuck 100 yd]

I have owned several Italian repop C&B revolvers and they are fun. Today all I can say is
' Ruger Old Army' . I wish they would bring it back!
Fixed sight stainless 5" Old Army's are like gold,heck, better than gold.

[Ben_Rumson]

' Ruger Old Army'

... They got no sole...

[Chuck 100 yd]

' Ruger Old Army'

... They got no sole...

Friend, that is one mans opinion and I respect it..... But you say that an Italian made repop with soft
misfitting parts does ? Now some were,the ones assembled by Colt some thirty years back were close to good as originals but some of the parts were still questionable quality.
A ROA that hasn't been abused will run for a lifetime and still be good to go.
I don't remember anyone being awarded soul points at a Cowboy match.

[Ysabel Kid]

Oh geez, just what I needed!

[Old No7]

' Ruger Old Army'

... They got no sole...

Here you go -- all the SOUL you need!

Brace of Old Army's (Medium).jpg

Heck, you even get to pick "which color soul" you want!

Old No7

[Old Savage]

So my two have sights so .... really no soul.

[Chuck 100 yd]

No, just that fixed sights are much more rare and the short barreled ones are very scarce.

I am sorry for diverting the OP's fine post. Now back to that.

[Griff]

' Ruger Old Army'

... They got no sole...

Friend, that is one mans opinion and I respect it..... But you say that an Italian made repop with soft
misfitting parts does ? Now some were,the ones assembled by Colt some thirty years back were close to good as originals but some of the parts were still questionable quality.
A ROA that hasn't been abused will run for a lifetime and still be good to go.
I don't remember anyone being awarded soul points at a Cowboy match.

My 2 Colt 2nd Gens are great guns, worked just as designed out of the box... but, no they weren't built to be tanks... And the tuning and upgrade to a Ruger hand spring & plunger have made them as reliable as an open framed gun can be.

And actually shooting a gun as elegant as the 1851 is a joy... unlike those bricks they call ROA's! But, as you said, we digress...

[gamekeeper]

Interesting link, thanks for posting..
After the UK handgun ban only muzzle loading and cap n ball handguns were alowed, quite a few pistoleers took up cap n ball, it was fun seeing these guys make all the mistakes that could be made. I was already into black powder shooting and so I spent a lot of time helping B/P newbies out.
Old style Colts and Remington's are a lot of fun and pretty close to authentic, I did had some friends that bought Ruger Old Armys but I never really warmed to them.
Anyone here shoot a LeMat revolver?

[firefuzz]

I found this info at oh-dark-thirty this morning when I couldn't sleep, and thought this might be informative to some of those here.

While this is meant for revolvers used in competition, even if we don't perform all these steps, many of them will help improve the reliability and shootability of the replica cap 'n ball revolvers we may have. This is really well done and is well pictured & described:

...Tuning a Cap & Ball Revolver - Part 1

...Tuning a Cap & Ball Revolver - Part 2

Given the "sorority house full of nipples" and cap 'n ball guns that Ysabel Kid has, I'd say this will keep him busy for the next 2 or 3 years! (Like he didn't have enough to do already...)

Tight groups.

Old No7

Thanks for posting this. Is there any chance you can find the tuning the Uberti BP guns he mentioned in this article? These same steps are used to tune open-top Colt clones.

Rob

[Ysabel Kid]

After the UK handgun ban only muzzle loading and cap n ball handguns were alowed, quite a few pistoleers took up cap n ball, it was fun seeing these guys make all the mistakes that could be made. I was already into black powder shooting and so I spent a lot of time helping B/P newbies out.

IIRC, from one of Perry Owen's posts, replacing the traditional C&B nipple with one that works with shotgun primers was fairly popular in the UK after the ban. You can also get a 1873 SAA clone with a C&B cylinder (only), which is still legal over there, correct?

Anyone here shoot a LeMat revolver?

Funny you should ask. I have a cavalry model and have promised to take Y2K out shooting it soon!

[Ben_Rumson]

Friend, that is one mans opinion and I respect it..... But you say that an Italian made repop with soft
misfitting parts does ? Now some were,the ones assembled by Colt some thirty years back were close to good as originals but some of the parts were still questionable quality.
A ROA that hasn't been abused will run for a lifetime and still be good to go.
I don't remember anyone being awarded soul points at a Cowboy match.

No. I'm just saying the repop C&B revolvers try to be true to the original design... and that is what gives them soul.... Soul points in Cowboy matches you say? Don't they award points for authenticity?

[gamekeeper]

Quote YK.
IIRC , from one of Perry Owen's posts, replacing the traditional C&B nipple with one that works with shotgun primers was fairly popular in the UK after the ban. You can also get a 1873 SAA clone with a C&B cylinder (only), which is still legal over there, correct?

Anyone here shoot a LeMat revolver?

Funny you should ask. I have a cavalry model and have promised to take Y2K out shooting it soon! [/quote]

Yes the Colt SAA is available in cap n ball and a lot of other weird muzzle loading ideas have come about to help folks who don't like getting dirty. http://www.anvilconversions.co.uk/index ... ge564.htm‎
For me the fun of muzzle loading firearms is like going back in time, if you can do it all with a muzzle loader, how easy it is with modern cartridge firearms in comparison.
Please report back on that LeMat, I have seen videos where the loading lever jumps about on firing but they seem like a real blast to take to the range!!!

[Lefty Dude]

The most elegant and best Colt open top C & B ever made is the 1861. A refinement of the 1860, and a beautiful piece indeed.
I like my 51/36 navies, but the 1861's, they just tear my heart out.

[perry owens]

Interesting, well written and illustrated article. Here in the UK, thanks to the ban on centre fire handguns, we have quite a cottage industry devoted to modifying cap and ball guns. Since the demise of the Old Army the pistol of choice for CAS is the Uberti Cattleman SAA in percussion format. Gamers modify them with shotgun primer nipples and nitro-proved cylinders loaded with 3 grains of Bullseye. Personally I stick with these:
I have been offered the equivalent of $1000 each for them but they're going nowhere. In 7 years hard use I have never had a misfire or cap jam and cleanup is so easy:-
1. remove grips and submerge whole gun in ultrasonic bath.
2. Drink a slow pint of Old Peculier
3. Remove gun from bath, dewater with acetone and dry with air blast.
4. Re-oil and replace grips.
5. get on with life.

Perry Owens

[Old No7]

Interesting, well written and illustrated article...
In 7 years hard use I have never had a misfire or cap jam and cleanup is so easy:-
1. remove grips and submerge whole gun in ultrasonic bath.
2. Drink a slow pint of Old Peculier
3. Remove gun from bath, dewater with acetone and dry with air blast.
4. Re-oil and replace grips.
5. get on with life.
Perry Owens

#2 sealed the deal for me... Now I'll have to get an ultrasonic cleaner for my Old Army!

The most elegant and best Colt open top C & B ever made is the 1861. A refinement of the 1860, and a beautiful piece indeed.
I like my 51/36 navies, but the 1861's, they just tear my heart out.

OK, so these pix are for Lefty Dude.

This Colt didn't need any tuning at all when I got it.

Colt 1861 Navy - 3rd Gen 01 (Medium).jpg

Colt 1861 Navy - 3rd Gen 04 (Medium).jpg

Old No7

[M. M. Wright]

Really good article. Stuff I learned many years ago but most of us are dead now. Much of the info will transfer to your Colt style SAA. Heck, I've had to tune many real Colts that had hammer drag, bolt too wide or too narrow and they always need the forcing cone re-cut. Applies to a lot of old 1st gen Colts too that have been "messed with" by less than knowledgeable tinkerers. (guys with Dremels)

I remember my first handgun was a Remington 1858, 44 that I had to replace the nipples in. This was about 1952 so there were no Italian makers but I did find a set of NOS nipples from Numrich I believe. I don't know how many new springs I made for that gun but by the time I traded it off for an 1881 Colt SAA in 44-40 (my first cartridge pistol) I had learned to make a hammer spring that would stay with it for quite a while. I'll tell you the real secret to making a lasting leaf spring is to polish out all tool marks. Gets rid of the places for a crack to start.

[Lefty Dude]

7;
That is one beautiful 1861. In fact, it is drop dead gorgeous !

[Griff]

I'll tell you the real secret to making a lasting leaf spring is to polish out all tool marks. Gets rid of the places for a crack to start.

Learned that with my 1st Bob Munden tuned SAA. His narrowed mainspring broke after 4 years of match work, nearly a match every weekend. I made its replacement and polished it to a mirror sheen. 25 years later, it's still in there.

#7, yep that's a pretty little gem.

[Nath]

Interesting, well written and illustrated article. Here in the UK, thanks to the ban on centre fire handguns, we have quite a cottage industry devoted to modifying cap and ball guns. Since the demise of the Old Army the pistol of choice for CAS is the Uberti Cattleman SAA in percussion format. Gamers modify them with shotgun primer nipples and nitro-proved cylinders loaded with 3 grains of Bullseye. Personally I stick with these:
I have been offered the equivalent of $1000 each for them but they're going nowhere. In 7 years hard use I have never had a misfire or cap jam and cleanup is so easy:-
1. remove grips and submerge whole gun in ultrasonic bath.
2. Drink a slow pint of Old Peculier
3. Remove gun from bath, dewater with acetone and dry with air blast.
4. Re-oil and replace grips.
5. get on with life.

Perry Owens

Hieratic.

[perry owens]

Hieratic.

Why Nath? Because I use Old Armys or because I drink Old Peculier?

Perry Owens

[Nath]

Hieratic.

Why Nath? Because I use Old Armys or because I drink Old Peculier?

Perry Owens