Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

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Streetstar
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Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

Post by Streetstar »

I have mixed emotions on this one --- Oklahoma City is where the pharmacist smoked the would be robber a few years back who turned out to be a 14yo kid - the guy handled it wrong and is now in prison

But today --- a thief trying to steal someone's old pickup met his demise when the owner objected

----- I pasted the story below --
But seriously --- would any of you guys' really shoot someone who was stealing your truck? -- Im glossing over the fact that it looks like a work truck circa' 1984 or 5, because thats not the point

Unless there was a kid or your dog inside the truck -- shoot - have at it - society is far too litigious for wasting someone at 1pm in the afternoon in broad daylight who is backing out of the driveway and not posing an immediate and mortal threat

Not condoning the turd-bird's actions either , a century ago , horse thievery was a hanging offense and vehicle theft is the modern interpretation of that --- but wow -- i need to get my popcorn to see what if any firestorm results from this



http://newsok.com/attempted-pickup-thef ... le/5434186
Last edited by Streetstar on Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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David
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck

Post by David »

Absolutely if the law (like in Texas I believe) allowed for the use of lethal force for the protection of property I'd have no problem with it. One of the biggest problem facing this country is lack of personal responsibility.

If people know the may die for their actions they are a LOT more likely not to do it. If we started shooting illegals (in my view terrorists) trying to cross the boarder, I bet on day 2 or after the word got out there would be very few trying.

Very few people stole horses back then!
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck

Post by plowboy 45 »

Ahhhhhhh
Kinda hard to say, I feel the same as David, but on the other hand I've never killed anyone and really don't want to be in that position
But Ol Red is purty special to me bein a 77 model and all I can work on it
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck

Post by Booger Bill »

I wouldn't unless my life was in danger. NOT because I am a pacifist but because the aftermath wouldn't be worth it. Morally I think all thieves and burglars should be shot. After a quick large number the fear of getting killed should slow things up. I have been a victim of both burglary's and theft of one truck. There is NO first time with a thief.
In 2003 I was living in California when my widowed dad died in Wisconsin. I brought back many family guns of both mine and my dad`s. I packed on the trip and had a somewhat customized S&W model 60 hid in the truck. I was dead on my feet from driving and unloaded all the guns into my house. Most wouldn't fit in my already full gun safe. I forgot to retrieve my smith. It was the next morning I got up and my truck was missing! Besides my smith a bunch of tools were gone with it as I still hadn't unloaded them out of the locked big box in the bed. None nor the truck ever was recovered! That still wasn't the worst of it. I believe when the thief or thieves found my customized smith it tipped them off I was a gun person. I was watched. A day or two later right after I left the house I got hit big time! All those family guns that I left out because I couldnt squeeze them in the safe along with other stuff was gone! Only one was later recovered, a pump J.C. Higgins shotgun I had as a boy. It now had the barrel and stock sawed off plus a "Doc Holiday" type sling put on.
In this case I would have had no problem "Dusting" the thief had I the chance. On top of all that I had picked up my mail and a J.C. Penney`s C.Card was in the mail. I had left that in the truck and it was ran up over $4,000`s. I did my own investigation and talked to a woman at Penney's that was head of security. We went through many receipts where my name was forged. However in her shopping spree we found one or two receipts with the name "Kiane Neimuth" was signed and it had gone through! I took what I found over to the detective that was working my case. We were sitting in his office trying to pronounce the name when another detective heard us and said, I know that name! She had JUST been released from breaking probation a short jail term. She was arrested again so I went to court to watch. Unbelievably I seen the judge start to give her what effectively was a couple months. I got up to voice my opinion and got the Bum`s rush from the judge! She had done time on almost exactly the same type case! The best the dick could get out of her was that she was hitch hiking and some unknown had given her a ride and she admitted to stealing the credit card. I guarantee you that had the dick been ripped off like I was he would have been able to get a lot more info. There is more to the story but all that I got was this ruined shotgun back. In fact they weren't going to give it to me as the barrel was sawed short. I walked over and unscrewed the barrel and told the dick, "Well you can have the barrel. I will take the action."

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guido4198
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck

Post by guido4198 »

Here in Florida, one is justified to use deadly force to stop a "Forcible Felony".
Robbery is a Forcible Felony.
UN-fortunately....there are a LOT BS lawyers, reporters, etc,etc just waiting to JUMP if there's the least sniff of a "bad shoot", and sometimes even if there isn't.
Fact is...you may very well be able to empty your Glock into the person stealing your truck and be absolutely safe from CRIMINAL prosecution....HOWEVER....you may also expect to pay a considerable cost defending yourself from civil attacks, both personal through the media, and in civil courts.

Your Choice.
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck

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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck

Post by AJMD429 »

Booger Bill wrote:There is more to the story but all that I got was this ruined shotgun back. In fact they weren't going to give it to me as the barrel was sawed short. I walked over and unscrewed the barrel and told the dick, "Well you can have the barrel. I will take the action."

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Most likely it would have wound up as a gift to one of his family members. I've seen it happen lots of times, even though supposedly things like that are prohibited. Years ago a cop showed me several illegal (would-be-NFA) weapons he'd "come across" over the years that he felt he could just keep for himself. No paperwork of course. If a civilian did that and he found out about it, no doubt he'd put them in jail for it.
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck

Post by Rusty »

guido4198 wrote:Here in Florida, one is justified to use deadly force to stop a "Forcible Felony".
Robbery is a Forcible Felony.
UN-fortunately....there are a LOT BS lawyers, reporters, etc,etc just waiting to JUMP if there's the least sniff of a "bad shoot", and sometimes even if there isn't.
Fact is...you may very well be able to empty your Glock into the person stealing your truck and be absolutely safe from CRIMINAL prosecution....HOWEVER....you may also expect to pay a considerable cost defending yourself from civil attacks, both personal through the media, and in civil courts.

Your Choice.
In Fla, you can not you deadly force to protect property.
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck

Post by firefuzz »

Given the frustration that honest, working class people have with the rise in maggots stealing others property, everyone either knows someone who has suffered a theft or has themselves, I can easily see where this type of situation occurs. I have been the victim of 3 residential burglaries and 5 other thefts from my property and I can attest that every one of them angered me. Given the States seeming inability to deter or rehabilitate scumbags that choose thievery as a way of life it's easy to understand how given the opportunity, cause, and ability to stop one of them permanently would guide one's actions.

I have always drawn the line for using deadly force to protect life, not necessarily human life, no matter that the law allows for a broader use. However, I can't honestly say I wouldn't act in the same manner, I can't say that I would either. Although I think most of us may say we would act in a certain manner in a given situation, we may not act that way when push comes to shove simple because all decent human beings have an aversion to taking human life even when our own lives are being threatened. During my time as a LEO I was in 5 separate situations where I would have been justified in using deadly force, in fact I was reprimanded on 3 of them for not, and I never pulled the trigger. My action or inaction resulted in two of those parties taking a human life later on down the line....so was I right or wrong in my decisions? At the time I thought I was, later I certainly had/have my doubts.

Another consideration is that given the attention that ALL forms of social media, which these forums are a part of, are drawing in court actions and other like scenarios I wonder if the stating " I would/will do....." could be construed or projected by prosecutors or others in like capacity as pre-meditation? Something to think about.

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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck

Post by FWiedner »

It's my personal opinion that if you so choose, you should be able to use deadly force to protect the lint in your pockets.

It's yours.

No scumbag crook has a right to take it from you.

To me, the value of my pocket lint is infinitely greater than the life of a scumbag crook, or anyone that would defend them.

:wink:
Last edited by FWiedner on Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck

Post by Griff »

Yep, as a qualified maybe. Given that my truck is the source of my income, he's robbing me of more the means of transportation. From the farm, almost certainly; from up in town, maybe not, depending on circumstances. Callin' the SO from the farm will result in at least 10-20 minute response time; he could be outta the county by then. Up in town, there are "innocents" to consider, clear shooting lanes, etc., what mayhem can ensue from a police chase, among many others.
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck

Post by TedH »

FWiedner wrote:It's my personal opinion that if you so choose, you should be able to use deadly force to protect the lint in your pockets if you so choose.

It's yours.

No scumbag crook has a right to take it from you.

To me, the value of my pocket lint is infinitely greater than the life of a scumbag crook, or anyone that would defend them.

:wink:

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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck

Post by gamekeeper »

In good old England I could guarantee I would end up in prison and loose all my guns, pity really because my views are the same as FWiedner. :evil:
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck

Post by J Miller »

In spite of my views I would only shoot a vehicle thief if:

A= My or a child was in the vehicle and in danger
B= My wife was in there and in danger
C= I had just come from or was going to a shooting place and there were firearms and ammo in the vehicle that could be used as weapons against others
D= To be determined

Having never busted a cap on a human I'm hesitant to do so, and there must be a good valid reason for me to do so.

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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck

Post by Booger Bill »

Here is a side story to the post above. This happened in 2003 in Lancaster California. When I took the Penny`s receipts to the sheriff station I had to call the detective on the desk telephone. I told him I had evidence and he said, "Ok, just leave it on the counter and I will pick it up. I said BS! You come out here now and see what I got! He came up to the counter from the back, looked at what I had and said "How did you get all this? Even I couldnt!" I had just retired off my job of 35 years working as a lowly security guard for Lockheed Aircraft. I think I know how to simply talk to my counterpart that worked at J.C. Penny's. Right after that I now needed another truck and went shopping. We had the name of the woman "Kiane Neimuth" who used the Penny`s card and she wasn't picked up yet as I had just left the station. I went to a used truck lot nearby where I had bought a vehicle before. I knew the salesman so told him what just happened. I mentioned they were looking for a female named Kiane Neimuth and he about pooped! She had originally got in trouble for stealing some guns from his house! His stepdaughter had another girl friend come over to their house and the girlfriend had brought Niemuth with her. I suppose he had some guns hanging in sight and later the house was burglarized and guns gone. This had to have happened in the middle of the day. He seen some construction workers near by and asked them had they seen anything. They had. A car had pulled up with some guys in front of the house with the female. The guys went in while she stood out by the car in a scanty bathing suite waiting. They were able to put it together. She got ONLY probation! She broke probation and did a little time, got out and I got hit!
I had my house up for sale as I had just retired and wanted to sell out and move. I had hired a casual acquaintance that was a painter to paint my house to get it ready to sell. He had a druggie son (didn't know at that time he was a druggie) that helped him. I originally liked the son and hired the kid about 18 years old to do other work. They also painted the inside of the house. Much later after they were done I couldnt find a Hi Standard HDM but thought I had misplaced it in the rubble of stuff moved around. I also had just buried my female companion due to cancer. It was a bad time of my life. My dad was at that time in a convalescent home in Wisconsin dying of Alzheimers, I was flying and driving back and forth taking care of his affairs, and I had already picked up with another hard luck woman to live with. I had met her by chance. I needed a woman to take care of my young daughter that I had occasionally for visitation as I was divoriced and this lady had job experience working in convelesent homes with alzeimer patents. I thought God had sent her! The plan was I would let her move in to my 4 bedroom house, go to Wisconsin and get dad. She would take care of the house and dad and be there when my young daughter visited. Nothing worked out. Dad refused to live in California and within a couple years I buried two women and my dad. The last one was a Sally Field look alike but also came down with cancer and died on me. The painters son was sent to rehab. He got out and came to see me shortly after I got hit. I knew these druggies all know each other and told him I got hit and did he know Kiane Niemuth. He did. He said let me go and I will try to get you some info. He never came back. He that day broke probation himself and ran. A few weeks later his dad sold their house and moved off. Later my Hi Standard HDM did show up from some other thug that was arrested. I got that one back but many more family fine guns are gone. I hope there is a lot of stuff here that some of you can use as a object lesson off me. Believe it or not I have a few more older similar story's far back similar in my past life. I have buried 4 women. This is that HDM that I did get back. It has a story before this. It`s a blood gun. I had traded for it from a old long gone friend that was once my captain at work. Prior to knowing him he was a deputy in colorado. Someone killed a filling station attendant with it. Frank was nearby and hot. He arrested the guy but at first couldnt find the weapon. Finally he got a ladder and looked up on the roof and found it. After the trial the judge gave him the gun. I traded him a old ,303 1899 savage for it. Later I found the old beautiful carved ivory grips for it. A mountain lion is on one side and a goose on the other.

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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck

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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck

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765x53
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck

Post by 765x53 »

If a known criminal is found in some alley, how much investigating do the cops do?

C.S.I is fantasy. Reno 911 is closer to reality, if cops really were that honest and decent.
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

Post by Streetstar »

The shooter appears to be doing the dance properly on this one

A new account says the trucks owner heard the commotion , ran outside with his pistol and stood in the street demanding the thief to stop --- He then states the thief turned the truck toward him and began accelerating rapidly
(broken glass appears to be the side window though -- hmmm - ok)


If it can be reasonably construed that the owner is not lying - (he may - or may not be ) Then i guess he may walk


As for me - im insured - anybody wants my truck , have at it - i'll get a new one and if they get caught, they can go to jail for a couple of years -- just blasting someone rolling away in your truck (my opinion of what actually happened , but i could be wrong - there are few people stupid enough to step in front of a moving truck Dirty Harry style and just say - "I command you to stop right now ! " ) seems like an impromptu, heat of the moment response that could either get the shooter into some lukewarm water, or make him a local hero
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

Post by gundownunder »

Here in the land of Oz we have a law that states "you can use any means necessary to stop the theft of a motor vehicle"
However, in reality I don't know if I would be game to use anything more forceful than stern words, because our draconian justice and legal system would more than likely lock me up and let the thieving mongrel go.
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

Post by David »

gundownunder wrote:Here in the land of Oz we have a law that states "you can use any means necessary to stop the theft of a motor vehicle"
However, in reality I don't know if I would be game to use anything more forceful than stern words, because our draconian justice and legal system would more than likely lock me up and let the thieving mongrel go.
I don't know if this is why the police "shoot to kill", but I can sure say this is why I would. The person stealing my truck is NOT going to testify against me (or get let go).
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck

Post by AJMD429 »

FWiedner wrote:To me, the value of my pocket lint is infinitely greater than the life of a scumbag crook, or anyone that would defend them.
Good point.....

I'd still not want to bring the 'family revenge' or irrational legal garbage upon my self or family. :(
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

Post by KiwiKev »

Definitely a No No here. We have very strict licensing laws. People have used firearms for self defense. It usually ends up in court. Some get off, some get prosecuted for manslaughter. If it is genuine self defense then the judge will be sensible about it, usually. Here you cannot have an offensive weapon of any sort. Lets say I wake up in the middle of the night and find a stranger above my bed and I reach under the bed and pick up a cricket bat I have there and wack the intruder the police will say. "You had a offensive weapon." How ever If I coach cricket and have bats in my kit bag which just happens to be under my bed and I reach down and take the bat out and wack them with it may be okay.

I heard about a lad who stole a tradesman tools out of the back of his pickup and sold them for drugs. Being a small town the tradesman soon discovered who the kid was. After a broken arm and hand the kid learnt never to steal the livelihood off a tradesman again. Mind you the police back then in usually sorted out the local burglars before anything got near a courtroom.

Nothing wrong with just and fair proactive policing.
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

Post by mark08 »

So often the police think their job is to make a report so you can make an insurance claim. Some do investigate but that seems a small percentage. Out here 911 is only minutes away when seconds count! So today with so many we come across at all hours that are armed we have began to keep a weapon in every truck and on every tractor, just saying, just in case!
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

Post by Booger Bill »

I had a funny one happen years ago. Lockheed had thousands of employee`s and car repossessers were common. The Chief ordered us to run them off if we encountered them. One day I was working a gate when a guy drove up with a hand-full of paper work and told me he repossessed a car and could I get ahold of the employee and tell them? Now that was a first! Usually they just ran. I firmly informed him he was out of luck and I wasn't going to let him take a car off our property. He pointed at a car a couple hundred yards off driving off our lot and said, that's my partner leaving with it! There wasn't much I could do at that point so I snarled some nasty comment at him and saw him off. By habit I memorized his plate number as he left. I looked down at the paper work he had just gave me to figure out where the employee worked and then I seen it was the same car he had just left in!
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck

Post by guido4198 »

Rusty wrote:
guido4198 wrote:Here in Florida, one is justified to use deadly force to stop a "Forcible Felony".
Robbery is a Forcible Felony.
UN-fortunately....there are a LOT BS lawyers, reporters, etc,etc just waiting to JUMP if there's the least sniff of a "bad shoot", and sometimes even if there isn't.
Fact is...you may very well be able to empty your Glock into the person stealing your truck and be absolutely safe from CRIMINAL prosecution....HOWEVER....you may also expect to pay a considerable cost defending yourself from civil attacks, both personal through the media, and in civil courts.

Your Choice.
In Fla, you can not you deadly force to protect property.
You can if you are in the vehicle being stolen..i.e.: "carjacking".
You cannot run out into the street and shoot at someone driving off in your car however.
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

Post by David »

Booger Bill wrote:I had a funny one happen years ago. Lockheed had thousands of employee`s and car repossessers were common. The Chief ordered us to run them off if we encountered them. One day I was working a gate when a guy drove up with a hand-full of paper work and told me he repossessed a car and could I get ahold of the employee and tell them? Now that was a first! Usually they just ran. I firmly informed him he was out of luck and I wasn't going to let him take a car off our property. He pointed at a car a couple hundred yards off driving off our lot and said, that's my partner leaving with it! There wasn't much I could do at that point so I snarled some nasty comment at him and saw him off. By habit I memorized his plate number as he left. I looked down at the paper work he had just gave me to figure out where the employee worked and then I seen it was the same car he had just left in!
One thing to know (maybe if still true) ;)

When someone reposes a car it is STOLEN until it hits the yard, if you called the police and they stopped him they would be arrested for car theft. Now unless the laws have changed since I reposed a few you are on your own, that's why they pay big bucks to do this and of course the person who's car is repossessed who often wants it back pays that anyhow when they catch up on the late payments so they really don't care what they have to pay you to get it.

I haven't done this for almost 30 years and it was between $5-800 to get the car, that was a LOT of money back then.

What I see now happening if your buying a car and get the loan from the people who offer it for the people with less then honorable credit they install a device in the car, if you don't pay it tells them where it is and disables it. This blew me away I couldn't believe that was even legal until I saw it.
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

Post by Booger Bill »

You would think being a car repo`er would have to be one of the most dangerous job`s. I suppose there is stats somewhere, but I wonder what would happen to a shooter if he shot a repo man in the act? Funny, you would think you would hear more of it.
I was at work one early sunday morning. My GF called me right at dawn and said someone had tried to steal my truck and she ran out in her nightgown in front of it. He jumped out, shoved her out of the way and got in a van his accomplice was driving. I had a neighbor friend that heard the commotion and chased but lost them. I was a guard and on patrol. I ran home with the patrol car and found a window smashed and the steering column broke. I cruised the town looking for the van but of course found nothing.
I had another truck stolen that I earlier wrote about on this thread. It led to losing a lot of guns and I aint over it yet. I resent the liberal thinking like, why get upset? You have insurance. As if that gives a thief a excuse. Personally I think all should be blown away even if it was a piece of junk in your open unlocked garage. Unless my life was threatened I still WOULDN'T SHOOT THEM!! Not because I am a pacifist or soft, but because of everything else involved with the court system, cost of defending yourself etc. Also you might lose every gun you own and the right to have one.
I have been in a number of "events" in my life. I also have been more than lucky and skated but I wouldn't want to try and repeat them in today's political climate and times. I fear they would jack the jail up, roll me in under it, let it down and throw away the key.
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck

Post by Ysabel Kid »

TedH wrote:
FWiedner wrote:It's my personal opinion that if you so choose, you should be able to use deadly force to protect the lint in your pockets if you so choose.

It's yours.

No scumbag crook has a right to take it from you.

To me, the value of my pocket lint is infinitely greater than the life of a scumbag crook, or anyone that would defend them.

:wink:

+1
+2

Now, that being said, I wouldn't want to deal with the legal implications either. I've got a lot more to lose. :evil:
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

Post by Ysabel Kid »

Streetstar wrote: Not condoning the turd-bird's actions either , a century ago , horse thievery was a hanging offense and vehicle theft is the modern interpretation of that --- but wow -- i need to get my popcorn to see what if any firestorm results from this
The reason horse thievery was a hanging offense was that a man set a-foot was very likely to die on the frontier. A person's horse was often their most valuable possession. Combine the two, and it was the right decision!
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

Post by Lastmohecken »

Well, if someone is really stealing a truck, then he may endanger the lives of other's on the highway. How would you feel if you let him go, and he kills a family in your truck, 5 miles down the road?
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck

Post by Streetstar »

guido4198 wrote:
Rusty wrote:
guido4198 wrote:Here in Florida, one is justified to use deadly force to stop a "Forcible Felony".
Robbery is a Forcible Felony.
UN-fortunately....there are a LOT BS lawyers, reporters, etc,etc just waiting to JUMP if there's the least sniff of a "bad shoot", and sometimes even if there isn't.
Fact is...you may very well be able to empty your Glock into the person stealing your truck and be absolutely safe from CRIMINAL prosecution....HOWEVER....you may also expect to pay a considerable cost defending yourself from civil attacks, both personal through the media, and in civil courts.

Your Choice.
In Fla, you can not you deadly force to protect property.
You can if you are in the vehicle being stolen..i.e.: "carjacking".
You cannot run out into the street and shoot at someone driving off in your car however.


No joke - thats what sounds like what happened in this case == So far the media has remained surprisingly mum in this aftermath -- the shooter was a 32 yo hispanic and the thief was a 25 year old sumthin or other --

Maybe they just look at it as "Idiot on Idiot " crime and move along as soon as they see a no-win media situation (I see it the same way - but am wondering where this one will land )

If the owner was a renter, then he can change his name 5 times and avoid legal implication, or just go back to Mexico where this activity happens daily --- If he is a citizen and a property owner however, who knows
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

Post by Streetstar »

Lastmohecken wrote:Well, if someone is really stealing a truck, then he may endanger the lives of other's on the highway. How would you feel if you let him go, and he kills a family in your truck, 5 miles down the road?
So you put a pill in his brain? If you knew he would do that, sure -- but that thought as a defense is silly --------- What if someone stole your kids bicycle - would you then give him a lobotomy to prevent him from running said bicycle into someone's balls? - or riding it to a bridge overpass and throwing it over, killing someone?

Way too many what - ifs

Killing someone as he is speeding away seems like a big no-go though, no matter what kind of reach-around justification can be offered up -------- even in Texas (Although people in TX have been aquitted of lesser dumb-assity )
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

Post by Nate Kiowa Jones »

Streetstar wrote:
Lastmohecken wrote:Well, if someone is really stealing a truck, then he may endanger the lives of other's on the highway. How would you feel if you let him go, and he kills a family in your truck, 5 miles down the road?
So you put a pill in his brain? If you knew he would do that, sure -- but that thought as a defense is silly --------- What if someone stole your kids bicycle - would you then give him a lobotomy to prevent him from running said bicycle into someone's balls? - or riding it to a bridge overpass and throwing it over, killing someone?

Way too many what - ifs

Killing someone as he is speeding away seems like a big no-go though, no matter what kind of reach-around justification can be offered up -------- even in Texas (Although people in TX have been aquitted of lesser dumb-assity )
Well Doug,
Just like in the old days when they hung horse thieves, there are still wild places here in Texas that if you stole a man's truck you have sentenced him to death.
I hope I am never in the situation to do that.
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

Post by Ji in Hawaii »

I know, hindsight is 20/20, and I wasn't him nor was I there BUT... couldn't he just as easily have shot out the tires at least one or two?

Not even a thief's life is worth less than an old truck in MY opinion.
Last edited by Ji in Hawaii on Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

Post by Booger Bill »

Back in the 1940`s I went to school with this guy. Through the years I lost touch with him but my mother was a friend of his mother and he visited them several times and talk politics. He was a member of posse comitatus. He married another school mate of mine that I knew better in a latter school.
She left him. It seems their daughter and her boy friend came in a pickup to his farmhouse and was taking furniture or whatever when they thought he wasn't home. He came home, saw them leaving and shot at them with a shotgun. He killed the boy friend. Evidently his daughter was sitting passenger in the truck alongside her boyfriend. I dont know if he knew it was his daughter or not. His actions were strange and I dont know all the details but read where he took the body to a old Indian burial grounds somewhere on his farm and buried the guy. Evidently the guy was Indian or part Indian as I read a later statement he made to the effect he buried him with his people. My dad was friends with our local town chief of police plus a distant cousin to the county sheriff. They felt bad about arresting him and putting him away. All this was about 45 to 50 years ago. I had already left home and lived a couple thousand miles away. I dont know how much time he did for it but I did read a local blurb in the newspaper once when I went home about him being a cook at a fancy resturant /lodge back there. There was nothing said about his old difficulty. I would guess he did about twenty years for it.
As I mentioned on my earlier post, I feel any and all thieves caught in the act with the exception of someone due to some emergency like being lost in the wilderness and hitting a cabin to eat or whatever should morally be shot. However I would never do it unless forced to in self defense. Just because of all the trouble you would suffer afterwards. It just aint worth it.
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

Post by Daisyman »

Ain't it something that we have to have all these discussions about tiptoeing around to have to protect what belongs to us!!`It's just too bad that people can't leave other people stuff alone. I absolutely hate a thief, but like has been said before, I don't know if I could take a life even as bad as I wanted to.

Jail sentences, fines, parole, bail, all of it means nothing, just another cost for the taxpayer. I solidly believe that the victim should get 30 minutes with the perp, the victim being armed with a piZZ elm club and be able to give a lesson not easily forgotten!! :twisted: I'm all for the broken arm and hand fix!!!

Today, I fueled up the wifes car and left the cap on top of the pump. (senior moment) We went back to get it and it was gone. I asked in the station if someone turned it in, but no go. What on earth would someone do with a gas cap from an unknown car, and if you did know what it went to, what would you do with two?
I don't get it.

We are having a rash of thefts here out in the rural areas where there used to be a farmstead every quarter mile and folks knew a strange car when they saw one. Now there is now almost miles between farmsteads, and its easy pickins'. Unbelievable

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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

Post by FWiedner »

Sounds to me like the the honest citizen was attempting to defend or recover what he owned, and that he found an opportunity to take a safe shot at the thieving scumbag who was trying to run him over with his own vehicle.

Cops don't hesitate to respond with deadly force to undesirables who try to run them over.

Why should a citizen who is attempting to both defend himself and protect his property be condemned for respond the same way?

:?:
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

Post by Streetstar »

FWiedner wrote:Sounds to me like the the honest citizen was attempting to defend or recover what he owned, and that he found an opportunity to take a safe shot at the thieving scumbag who was trying to run him over with his own vehicle.

Cops don't hesitate to respond with deadly force to undesirables who try to run them over.

Why should a citizen who is attempting to both defend himself and protect his property be condemned for respond the same way?

:?:
Is it trying to run somebody over when you run out into the street in front of a vehicle? And is it self defense if you put yourself into the situation to begin with?

The guy got lucky with the tomato shot, as that is a low % shot to start with --- bullet trajectory will tell a lot, -- but i was speaking to an LEO of a neighboring town who is a customer of mine who said , given the part of town it happened in, (working class neighborhoods - lots of hispanics ) - we may never hear another word about it and it will be chalked up as "poor people shooting poor people - so who cares"

If some hoodie wearing scofflaw steals my morning paper, i guess i can run into the street and command him to stop --- when he fails and turns his bicycle towards me, i will have no choice but to defend myself

I'll turn the tables on myself --- if i did this -- for the sake of conversation, -- if i as an admitted middle class white man who lives in a nice, but not opulent, house - and i drive a later model vehicle (a Ford , not a BMW) - caught a white tweeker wheeling away down the drive in my Ford and i dropped him- i am curious what the outcome would be
On the flip side, - i am curious about the outcome if said white tweeker was instead a black tweeker -- And in both instances i said the guy was trying to run me over after i stepped in front of him


--- Hmmmmmmmm


If anybody thinks i am sympathetic towards a car thief, they would be wrong --- i am just curious how many more years it will take us to de-volve back into a seemingly lawless society (and i know some on here would be fine with that - its the Ol' West all over again ) -- jus sayin'

I will continue to try to monitor this as i am truly curious now what the real outcome will be - if the guy will get drug through the legal wringer, if he gets slapped on the hand, or if it all gets brushed under the rug and chalked up as "Po people problems"
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

Post by FWiedner »

Streetstar wrote:
FWiedner wrote:Sounds to me like the the honest citizen was attempting to defend or recover what he owned, and that he found an opportunity to take a safe shot at the thieving scumbag who was trying to run him over with his own vehicle.

Cops don't hesitate to respond with deadly force to undesirables who try to run them over.

Why should a citizen who is attempting to both defend himself and protect his property be condemned for respond the same way?

:?:
Is it trying to run somebody over when you run out into the street in front of (someone driving away in your stolen)/ a vehicle? Yes

And is it self defense if you put yourself into the situation to begin with? Yes
If someone was dragging your television or your wife out of your house and you got in their way, would it be self-defense if they threatened you with force and you shot them?

I'm pretty sure that a moving vehicle is considered a deadly weapon. It was his property, on his property (or leaving his property without his authority) and it was being driven at him with intent whether he placed himself in front of it or not. He had a right to defend himself.

:|
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

Post by Streetstar »

FWiedner wrote:
Streetstar wrote:
FWiedner wrote:Sounds to me like the the honest citizen was attempting to defend or recover what he owned, and that he found an opportunity to take a safe shot at the thieving scumbag who was trying to run him over with his own vehicle.

Cops don't hesitate to respond with deadly force to undesirables who try to run them over.

Why should a citizen who is attempting to both defend himself and protect his property be condemned for respond the same way?

:?:
Is it trying to run somebody over when you run out into the street in front of (someone driving away in your stolen)/ a vehicle? Yes

And is it self defense if you put yourself into the situation to begin with? Yes
If someone was dragging your television or your wife out of your house and you got in their way, would it be self-defense if they threatened you with force and you shot them?

I'm pretty sure that a moving vehicle is considered a deadly weapon. It was his property, on his property (or leaving his property without his authority) and it was being driven at him with intent whether he placed himself in front of it or not. He had a right to defend himself.

:|

Forcible entry into your home to remove your tv is different than vehicle theft from a driveway ---- protection of human life (wife) is also a completely different scenario
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

Post by Blaine »

Strictly speaking for myself, if I jumped in front of any moving vehicle, mine or not, I would be an idiot. I would no doubt shoot if the thug swerved to hit me. In this state, it's not usually legal to shoot a fleeing suspect if you are not in danger. If the dumb pelosi is in my house, all bets are off. Thing is, if thugs had an expectation of being shot and killed, they might consider not plying their trade.
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

Post by 92&94 »

I would probably not choose to shoot a man stealing my truck.

But if I were on a jury trying someone who did, I doubt I could convict them, regardless of the letter of the law.

Anyone who has been the victim of theft will tell you that their reaction goes far deeper than the monetary loss of property - and that is where the pocket lint sentiment comes from. I'm inclined to agree that one should be within their rights in such a defense, the choice of that defense left up to the victim of the crime and no one else.
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

Post by Nate Kiowa Jones »

Streetstar wrote:
FWiedner wrote:
Streetstar wrote:
FWiedner wrote:Sounds to me like the the honest citizen was attempting to defend or recover what he owned, and that he found an opportunity to take a safe shot at the thieving scumbag who was trying to run him over with his own vehicle.

Cops don't hesitate to respond with deadly force to undesirables who try to run them over.

Why should a citizen who is attempting to both defend himself and protect his property be condemned for respond the same way?

:?:
Is it trying to run somebody over when you run out into the street in front of (someone driving away in your stolen)/ a vehicle? Yes

And is it self defense if you put yourself into the situation to begin with? Yes
If someone was dragging your television or your wife out of your house and you got in their way, would it be self-defense if they threatened you with force and you shot them?

I'm pretty sure that a moving vehicle is considered a deadly weapon. It was his property, on his property (or leaving his property without his authority) and it was being driven at him with intent whether he placed himself in front of it or not. He had a right to defend himself.

:|

Forcible entry into your home to remove your tv is different than vehicle theft from a driveway ---- protection of human life (wife) is also a completely different scenario

I'm no lawyer but some states look on your vehicle as an extension of your home. It's the basis for legally carrying a gun in your car. It may apply here as well.
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

Post by FWiedner »

Streetstar wrote:Forcible entry into your home to remove your tv is different than vehicle theft from a driveway...

Nit-picking the persons or objects of property being placed in danger and stolen only serves to excuse the actions of the thief.

I's suggest that forcible trespass is forcible trespass whether it is your home, your vehicle, or you garden shed.

As NKJ mentioned above, I'd consider that a personal vehicle is legally an extension of one's home.

I doubt that I'd chase the thieving scum down the street and shoot him in the back, that is settled law, i.e. illegal.

But on my property, or virtually, and at point blank range... I believe that's a reasonable basis for self-defense.

:|
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

Post by Booger Bill »

I wonder how many hard working taxed citizens tax's it takes to just keep one criminal in jail? There has to be a chart somewhere. It`s insane!
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

Post by Tactical Lever »

Streetstar wrote:
FWiedner wrote:Sounds to me like the the honest citizen was attempting to defend or recover what he owned, and that he found an opportunity to take a safe shot at the thieving scumbag who was trying to run him over with his own vehicle.

Cops don't hesitate to respond with deadly force to undesirables who try to run them over.

Why should a citizen who is attempting to both defend himself and protect his property be condemned for respond the same way?

:?:
Is it trying to run somebody over when you run out into the street in front of a vehicle? And is it self defense if you put yourself into the situation to begin with?

The guy got lucky with the tomato shot, as that is a low % shot to start with --- bullet trajectory will tell a lot, -- but i was speaking to an LEO of a neighboring town who is a customer of mine who said , given the part of town it happened in, (working class neighborhoods - lots of hispanics ) - we may never hear another word about it and it will be chalked up as "poor people shooting poor people - so who cares"

If some hoodie wearing scofflaw steals my morning paper, i guess i can run into the street and command him to stop --- when he fails and turns his bicycle towards me, i will have no choice but to defend myself

I'll turn the tables on myself --- if i did this -- for the sake of conversation, -- if i as an admitted middle class white man who lives in a nice, but not opulent, house - and i drive a later model vehicle (a Ford , not a BMW) - caught a white tweeker wheeling away down the drive in my Ford and i dropped him- i am curious what the outcome would be
On the flip side, - i am curious about the outcome if said white tweeker was instead a black tweeker -- And in both instances i said the guy was trying to run me over after i stepped in front of him


--- Hmmmmmmmm


If anybody thinks i am sympathetic towards a car thief, they would be wrong --- i am just curious how many more years it will take us to de-volve back into a seemingly lawless society (and i know some on here would be fine with that - its the Ol' West all over again ) -- jus sayin'

I will continue to try to monitor this as i am truly curious now what the real outcome will be - if the guy will get drug through the legal wringer, if he gets slapped on the hand, or if it all gets brushed under the rug and chalked up as "Po people problems"
Not sure why it matters that the shooter is Hispanic. Nor why it's working class and he is poor (if he is). Probably has a harder, and more thankless job than many of us on here. And his truck is his livelyhood (now that oughta up the ante for prejudices).

And the Old West being lawless and wild is just a Hollywood myth. People brought their Bibles, a sense of right and wrong and worked out rules before there was anything formal. So maybe in a sense that is lawless. But in Chicago in 1870 IIRC the murder rate was about 2.6 per 100 000. And in many places much lower. Bank robberies weren't even a thing that happened. Want to compare stats from back then to today? Then who had the "lawless" society?
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

Post by Streetstar »

Tactical Lever wrote:
Streetstar wrote:
FWiedner wrote:Sounds to me like the the honest citizen was attempting to defend or recover what he owned, and that he found an opportunity to take a safe shot at the thieving scumbag who was trying to run him over with his own vehicle.

Cops don't hesitate to respond with deadly force to undesirables who try to run them over.

Why should a citizen who is attempting to both defend himself and protect his property be condemned for respond the same way?

:?:
Is it trying to run somebody over when you run out into the street in front of a vehicle? And is it self defense if you put yourself into the situation to begin with?

The guy got lucky with the tomato shot, as that is a low % shot to start with --- bullet trajectory will tell a lot, -- but i was speaking to an LEO of a neighboring town who is a customer of mine who said , given the part of town it happened in, (working class neighborhoods - lots of hispanics ) - we may never hear another word about it and it will be chalked up as "poor people shooting poor people - so who cares"

If some hoodie wearing scofflaw steals my morning paper, i guess i can run into the street and command him to stop --- when he fails and turns his bicycle towards me, i will have no choice but to defend myself

I'll turn the tables on myself --- if i did this -- for the sake of conversation, -- if i as an admitted middle class white man who lives in a nice, but not opulent, house - and i drive a later model vehicle (a Ford , not a BMW) - caught a white tweeker wheeling away down the drive in my Ford and i dropped him- i am curious what the outcome would be
On the flip side, - i am curious about the outcome if said white tweeker was instead a black tweeker -- And in both instances i said the guy was trying to run me over after i stepped in front of him


--- Hmmmmmmmm


If anybody thinks i am sympathetic towards a car thief, they would be wrong --- i am just curious how many more years it will take us to de-volve back into a seemingly lawless society (and i know some on here would be fine with that - its the Ol' West all over again ) -- jus sayin'

I will continue to try to monitor this as i am truly curious now what the real outcome will be - if the guy will get drug through the legal wringer, if he gets slapped on the hand, or if it all gets brushed under the rug and chalked up as "Po people problems"
Not sure why it matters that the shooter is Hispanic. Nor why it's working class and he is poor (if he is). Probably has a harder, and more thankless job than many of us on here. ?
Its naive to think that it doesnt matter in the court of public perception --- or why now, 2 weeks later, the story seemingly disappeared - (the media doesnt care- its not whites shooting blacks, It also doesnt concern people in the community with more to lose --- its not an attractive story )
----- Doug
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

Post by Booger Bill »

The desired result here is to stay out of jail yourself and not support the perp`s family until you die. I think we all will agree on shooting in a self defense scenario. My life's work was a security guard for 35 years. While it wasn't like being a cop in Oakland in all that time I still had events to handle. Strangely, I had more hairy ones in my personal life off the job. We all have experienced first hand events that pizz us off and would like to see real justice. True justice seldom happens in this lifetime except once in awhile by accident.
Several times off the job I could have shot someone but didn't and probably have got off. I have heard the same thing from some retired cops I worked with.
I will say a lot of crime would stop if on cue everyone thought the same and bag all thieves caught in the act. I hate the the usual argument that says "let them get away with it, it`s insured". That`s why we all pay a fortune for insurance. Sometimes it aint insured and most often it doesn't pay enough plus your insurance will go up.
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Re: Guy in my town shoots another stealing his truck- Update

Post by Tactical Lever »

Streetstar wrote:
Tactical Lever wrote:
Streetstar wrote:
FWiedner wrote:Sounds to me like the the honest citizen was attempting to defend or recover what he owned, and that he found an opportunity to take a safe shot at the thieving scumbag who was trying to run him over with his own vehicle.

Cops don't hesitate to respond with deadly force to undesirables who try to run them over.

Why should a citizen who is attempting to both defend himself and protect his property be condemned for respond the same way?

:?:
Is it trying to run somebody over when you run out into the street in front of a vehicle? And is it self defense if you put yourself into the situation to begin with?

The guy got lucky with the tomato shot, as that is a low % shot to start with --- bullet trajectory will tell a lot, -- but i was speaking to an LEO of a neighboring town who is a customer of mine who said , given the part of town it happened in, (working class neighborhoods - lots of hispanics ) - we may never hear another word about it and it will be chalked up as "poor people shooting poor people - so who cares"

If some hoodie wearing scofflaw steals my morning paper, i guess i can run into the street and command him to stop --- when he fails and turns his bicycle towards me, i will have no choice but to defend myself

I'll turn the tables on myself --- if i did this -- for the sake of conversation, -- if i as an admitted middle class white man who lives in a nice, but not opulent, house - and i drive a later model vehicle (a Ford , not a BMW) - caught a white tweeker wheeling away down the drive in my Ford and i dropped him- i am curious what the outcome would be
On the flip side, - i am curious about the outcome if said white tweeker was instead a black tweeker -- And in both instances i said the guy was trying to run me over after i stepped in front of him


--- Hmmmmmmmm


If anybody thinks i am sympathetic towards a car thief, they would be wrong --- i am just curious how many more years it will take us to de-volve back into a seemingly lawless society (and i know some on here would be fine with that - its the Ol' West all over again ) -- jus sayin'

I will continue to try to monitor this as i am truly curious now what the real outcome will be - if the guy will get drug through the legal wringer, if he gets slapped on the hand, or if it all gets brushed under the rug and chalked up as "Po people problems"
Not sure why it matters that the shooter is Hispanic. Nor why it's working class and he is poor (if he is). Probably has a harder, and more thankless job than many of us on here. ?
Its naive to think that it doesnt matter in the court of public perception --- or why now, 2 weeks later, the story seemingly disappeared - (the media doesnt care- its not whites shooting blacks, It also doesnt concern people in the community with more to lose --- its not an attractive story )
Oh, big deal. The media dropped the story after a couple weeks because the public outrage wasn't high enough. That's never happened before! :o As for what happens in court, if anything; it will largely be determined by what kind of jury is sitting in. But even if it was all hard working Hispanics; if the shooting is bad, may not give the guy a pass. But by and large, I think the general populace is pretty sick of criminals walking. Me? I would much rather see them roll. Preferably in one of those electric quad chairs, although they may cost us a little less if they could still wheel with arm power...
Profanity is a poor substitute for a proper education.
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