1873 Cartridge length?

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jhrosier
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1873 Cartridge length?

Post by jhrosier »

I bought a new Uberti 1873 Winchester Sporting Rifle in .357 Magnum, earlier this week.
I can see that the opening in the receiver for the lifter is 1.610" and the maximum cartridge length usually given for the .357 Mag. is 1.590".
What I can't seem to find is the minimum cartridge length.

Also, I assumed that .38 Specials would feed but the gun is only marked for the magnum cartridge.
Will .38 Specials work reliably through the 1873 action, and, if so, what would be the minimum cartridge length for them?

I feel like a fool for not knowing these things before buying the rifle.

Jack
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Malamute
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Re: 1873 Cartridge length?

Post by Malamute »

Unless modified in some way, I believe that the 73's are very cartridge length sensitive, its all that keeps the next round in the magazine far enough forward for the carrier to raise so it can feed. In other words, the cartridges need to be right at the proper length for it to function, you cant go shorter in OAL.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt-

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jhrosier
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Re: 1873 Cartridge length?

Post by jhrosier »

Malamute wrote:Unless modified in some way, I believe that the 73's are very cartridge length sensitive, its all that keeps the next round in the magazine far enough forward for the carrier to raise so it can feed......
That is what I would have thought too, but I have also seen passing references to shooting 38 Spl in the 357 guns.
The 38 Spl is about 1/16" shorter overall than the 357.

Jack
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Malamute
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Re: 1873 Cartridge length?

Post by Malamute »

If the bullet is long enough it will work. The carrier doesnt care what the case length is, so long as the overall length is close.

With some bevel on the front of the carrier, it may function with slightly shorter rounds, but probably not much shorter. Have you tried it yet? Worst case is youd have to take the mag cap or the side plate off, or use a small punch to push the next round in the mag forward enough to feed the one in the carrier.

Again, I'm going on old info. I had a couple 73 copies many years ago, one in 22 cal. It had a sping loaded hook in the carrier so the cartridges sat at the right place to stop the next rounds from coming onto the carrier, but it was loaded from the front. I dont know if anyone has worked out a way to do something like that with the centerfire rounds. In loading through the gate, the rounds would have to be pushed far enough in to get past the hook.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt-

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jhrosier
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Re: 1873 Cartridge length?

Post by jhrosier »

Malamute wrote:...
With some bevel on the front of the carrier, it may function with slightly shorter rounds, but probably not much shorter. ..
Holy Cow! that's it... There is about 1/4" long bevel on the front of the carrier.

Everything is pretty much visible from the top, once you know what to look for.
I'm going shooting in about 15 minutes. I will take a box of 38 spl along and see how they work.
I can easily push them back into the mag tube with a screwdriver, if need be.

Thanks & I'll let you know how it worked later.

Jack
perry owens
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Re: 1873 Cartridge length?

Post by perry owens »

I use Big Lube 158 grain Snakebite bullets to load 38Sp brass for use in a .357 Uberti 1873. They have a long ogive and flat nose and when crimped in the groove give the right cartridge OAL for .357. My old Uberti is very unforgiving on OAL but I believe the later models had an increased bevel on the carrier block which might improve matters.

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Malamute
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Re: 1873 Cartridge length?

Post by Malamute »

You may experience some rim lock if a shorter round is getting pushed back into the mag tube so the carrier can come up. Hopefully not, but if it comes back into the carrier much, it may catch the rim on the top edge of the mag tube as its trying to cam the round forward a little.

Curious how it works out. The Miroku/Winchester 73 in 357 is something on my wish list if I ever get back on my feet.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt-

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jhrosier
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Re: 1873 Cartridge length?

Post by jhrosier »

Well, the long bevel on the lifter fed some 1.43" long 38 Spls without much trouble.
They didn't feed as smoothly as the longer (1.57") .357 Mags.

The .357s were loaded with 140gr TC cast bullets loaded over 7.0 grs Unique powder.
They shot groups around 1-1/2" to 2" @ 50 yds. My old eyes couldn't do better with the iron sights.
I think that I will spring for the Columbia Precision tang sight.

I was favorably impressed with the rifle, with two small exceptions.
First, Uberti did not mark the caliber on the brass cartridge lifter. That's just not right.
Second, the trigger pull is way too heavy.

The action was fairly smooth out of the box and actually got a bit better in the course of firing 50 rounds.

The folks at the Kittery Trading Post arranged for me to take possession of the rifle in NH so I saved about $60 in sales tax.

I'm pretty pleased with the whole deal.

Jack
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Malamute
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Re: 1873 Cartridge length?

Post by Malamute »

Nice, sounds like a successful deal all around. The trigger pull may clean up a little with use.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt-

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Shasta
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Re: 1873 Cartridge length?

Post by Shasta »

I haven't seen one yet, but the new Miroku made Winchester 1873 is available in caliber 357/38, and is so marked on the bottom of the lifter. See pics here:

http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/ ... mid=534200


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Chuck 100 yd
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Re: 1873 Cartridge length?

Post by Chuck 100 yd »

You need to load the .38's as close to .357 length as possible if you want smooth operation of the rifle. If too short it may feed but the short round in the lifter will allow the next round in the magazine tube to also partially enter the lifter. Before the lifter can rise all the way to feed, it has to push that extra round back into the magazine tube against the mag. Springs resistance. This makes for dificult and clunky feeding . There are bullets that work well. I use the 158 gr. PB RCBS in mine .
jhrosier
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Re: 1873 Cartridge length?

Post by jhrosier »

Thanks to all for your help.
I'm going to try a few different bullets to see what shoots best.
It would be nice if the 158 swc worked as I already have the mould.
I've heard that the 73s don't feed swc bullets well though.
Otherwise I will have to spring for a rnfp.

Jack
Chuck 100 yd
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Re: 1873 Cartridge length?

Post by Chuck 100 yd »

The toggle link guns don't like the SWC style bullets at all ,nor do most Leverguns. Even a RNFN bullet that has a driving band ahead of the case mouth,even a slight one,will hang up on guns chambered for straight cases rounds. There are rare exceptions but no go is the norm. The smoother the transition from case to ogive the better. :wink:
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Griff
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Re: 1873 Cartridge length?

Post by Griff »

What they all said. One of my favorite bullet shapes for my '73s is the Truncated Cone. And, as Malamute noted, that ramp on the front of the carrier is what'll determine acceptable OAL for your cartridges. I've seen a wide variation in cartridge lengths that different rifles will feed. From .38spls with little 90 grainers to needing to use .357 cases to use any sort of light bullet. Both of my '73s can feed .45Colts with as small as a 125 grain "button nose" bullet to 260 grain JHPs; but my steel framed 1860 in the same caliber is less tolerant. However, I've never had any cartridge that wouldn't feed back into the magazine because the rim got trapped on the front of the receiver as the carrier tried pushing it back into the mag... they were just too short for the rim to be on the ramp when the first cartridge on the carrier stopped it. If I remember, I'll take the 3 of them apart and take a pic of the differences in the ramps.
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