Identity Theft Question

[markinalpine]

If somebody steals your Identity,
and you find out who it was and kill them,
is it suicide?

Mark

[GonnePhishin]

Or, would you go to prison for killing yourself

[Malamute]

One thing I'm curious about, when people make fraudulent charges on your credit cards, and you ask the credit card company for the address that the poached items were shipped to, they wont say, as its confidential information. This according to someone that had it happen. If they want you to pay for it, the info shouldnt be a secret from you, its YOUR account for crying out loud.

Maybe theyre afraid youll commit suicide on the poacher.

[Panzercat]

Wow. I've never had to pay for ID fraud on my accounts.

I remember a certain card that was hijacked and funds 'donated' to a Church. Left me a tad puzzled for as to why a thief would use stolen funds to donate to a church until later... I had visited my then fiancee in Indonesia and my funds had more than likely gone towards a muslim denomination. Call me whatever you want, but it wasn't hard to connect the dots from there.

[7.62 Precision]

What I want to know is why it is the vender who always has to pay?

I did not steal the CC info.
I did not allow it to be stolen by someone else.
Someone makes an order with all the correct info.
I ship the order.
I have to pay for it when the fraud is discovered.

Even when the fraud is committed by the person who actually owns the card.

[Malamute]

Doesnt it raise a red flag when the shipping address is different than what shows for the card?

I've had my credit card Co call me when I made a charge that they thought wasnt in my regular line of buying. Too bad they dont make that call when the shipping address is different.

[Larkbill]

7.62, I'm afraid you're a victim of the Golden Rule. Whoever has the gold makes the rules. Consumer is protected by the govt, major gold holder. The credit card co, well what can you say, major gold. The poor vendor has no one in their corner.

[Pete44ru]

.


Apparently my credit card company's computer has studied my/our charge card spending habits, because they've called me (3x in 5 years) and said that they were suspicious of a charge made to my account, and did we know about it / make it, or not.

All 3x of mine turned out to be fraudulent, which the credit card company promptly removed from the account/billing.

No harm, no foul...................


.

[SteveR]

If somebody steals your Identity,
and you find out who it was and kill them,
is it suicide?

Mark

Sort of like if a illegal immigrant was murdered, does the US justice system have to intercede and bring justice? How does that work, who's interests are for the finding and convicting the murder's? These people who are criminals by definition, does the US justice system have a obligation to find justice for a criminal and during the time the crime is being committed, i.e. just being illegally here is an on going crime.

Steve

[Sixgun]

Anyone can steal my identity .......in fact, they don't have to steal it, I'll give it to them.

Never owned a credit card in my life and my credit rating is "0"......not bad credit or good credit.......0.......paid off everything by the time I was 40 and have not borrowed a dime since.......

There's this product out there and it's real old fashioned........you don't see much of it anymore, the government and all financial institutions want to get rid of it and make it go away forever so they can have complete control of their subjects.........hint.....it's mostly green in color.----------6

[Gobblerforge]

Anyone can steal my identity .......in fact, they don't have to steal it, I'll give it to them.

Never owned a credit card in my life and my credit rating is "0"......not bad credit or good credit.......0.......paid off everything by the time I was 40 and have not borrowed a dime since.......

There's this product out there and it's real old fashioned........you don't see much of it anymore, the government and all financial institutions want to get rid of it and make it go away forever so they can have complete control of their subjects.........hint.....it's mostly green in color.----------6

Preach it, Brother.

[7.62 Precision]

Doesnt it raise a red flag when the shipping address is different than what shows for the card?

Sure, but you have to understand that this is extremely common. Everybody ships to a different address all the time. I ship to places I am at when traveling often. My wife ships things direct to family in other states as gifts, we often have a distributor drop ship to a customer in the Lower 48 if it saves the customer money to do so. I would have credit cards that still have an outdated billing addresses, because I never use them, if it were not for my wife being very good at taking care of all those details.

Also, a lot of the credit card processors or issuers don't compare the full address - they just match the zip code.

When a credit card is run, there is an automatic verification process that compares and analyzes certain data before a transaction is approved. This is why when you use your card on the way to the airport in NY, and then as soon as you get off the plane in CA, the card might get locked.

A sure way to get it locked is if you have his and hers cards on the same account and each of you use the cards in different parts of the world at close to the same time. When I was in Iraq, my debit card got locked for several weeks after I arrived, because my wife used hers stateside and within several hours, I ran a charge on mine at the PX in Iraq.

Had our accounts locked several times when we arrived in NZ. Even Google will do it - I have had my Gmail account locked in NY, AZ, NZ, FL, WA, basically, if I try to log in from outside Alaska, Google usually locks my Gmail account.

So if everything checks out according to whatever data the system is looking for, the charge goes through. If something raises a flag to us, we may simply cancel the order and void the transaction, or we may call the customer.

For example, if we have someone call or email and ask us to ship an optic to his friend's company in FL, and then his friend will carry it to Columbia for him, that is a transaction we would never agree to. If someone wants to use multiple cards to pay for one purchase, that is a no-go.

Sometimes we flag legitimate purchases. We have been getting ripped off on optics left and right lately. Most of this fraud involves the purchaser using his own card, then running a chargeback and keeping the optic. So we are especially sensitive about optic orders. We received an order going to a different shipping address and different person than the billing address and name on the card, different states. Then, a third individual responded to the confirmation email stating that the card was hers, but she did not order the product. Then someone was using the right name with an avail address in someone else's name. We held this order for two weeks before we sorted out that the whole thing was legitimate, two people know each other but had not communicated, one person was in the middle of a move and still had residences in two states, someone used someone else's email address, and someone mis-typed an email address, and a completely uninvolved party received an email and mistook the partial credit card number for her own.

On the other hand, people will steal card info, including billing address, and then ship to an address in the same zip code, using the shipping address for both. If the security software only compares zip codes, the vender has no way to know any different. Often people will target someone they know works during the day. They ship to the correct billing address. They call the PO and ask for the package to be left on the porch, and then they just drive by and pick the packages up.
There are several types of fraud that do not even involve the thief ever receiving the items ordered. The items are just sent to random addresses, and it is all a way to secure cash. For example, the guy steals a card, orders something from a store, has it shipped to a random address. Then he calls the store, tells them that his card was stolen, the item was lost in the mail, whatever, and he needs to be refunded. The card, of course, is not active anymore because of the theft, so can he get his refund in the form of check, cash, apply it to this other card, a gift card, replacement merchandise, etc.?

People also "steal" their own cards - order a bunch of expensive stuff, and then report the card stolen, the CC company retrieves the purchase prices back from the venders, and the person has the merchandise as well.

The most common we see is people ordering items with their own cards, then running chargebacks once they have the item. We have yet to win in these cases. 100% of the time, the CC company will take the side of the person. Well, not 100% - one time an issuing bank required the customer to return the merchandise (in that case a holster) before the funds, which were already taken from us, would be put in his account (it was kind of clear this was something he did a lot, and it was his local bank debit card, so they probably caught on. We still did not win because he took a knife and cut up the holster before sending it back.

The second thing we see is people returning an item for a refund waiting for the refund to be issued, and then running a chargeback as well, so they get the money back twice. In other words, they never wanted the item, they just made an order to steal the purchase price of the item.

This has become a major problem for us, with a very large percentage of our sales turning out to be fraudulent, not cases of stolen cards, but of customers using their own cards but working the system to steal from us. It has actually reached the point that it is not sustainable for us to continue if something does not change.

We recently had quite a number of optics that were shipped and people ran chargebacks and kept the optics. We have found that a little research and a call the the closest police department to the customer, and informing the customer of the call, and the name of the detective that will be coming around to visit has caused a surprising change of heart in a couple of these individuals, who suddenly decide that shipping the optic back to us is in their best interest.

[7.62 Precision]

.
No harm, no foul...................
.

Except for the companies the purchases were made from - they are the losers in the end.

And how was your credit card info stolen? Many people automatically assume you must be using you cards to purchase online porn, or answering the billionaire deposed prince from that country in Africa who emailed you, but the reality is that using credit cards involves a huge amount of trust.

Our credit card processor never gives us access to the full credit card information. We never see the full number, and have no way to if an order is made online. But some companies' systems are built so that anyone who has access to account info can see the full info, and worse, there are still webistes that are built so that any cc info entered is simply sent to an email account in the clear and then someone manually runs the info.

We don't see full CC numbers ever if an order is placed on our website. Yet we have many people who call us and give it to us over the phone because they would never use their card on the internet.

They give me their full card number, billing address, security code, phone number, email address, name, etc., and I type it into an online terminal, or I just make an account on my website for them and enter the order. Either way, the data is transmitted the same way as it would be if they ordered on the website. The difference is that they are trusting me to not write all that info on a piece of paper and put it in my pocket.

If you order from us, you will speak to my wife or myself. That is it, and we are very careful with CC info. We don't retain it, ever. But imagine if we were a huge company with 100 minimum-wage hires sitting in cubicles taking orders over the phone. Now imagine if this was all outsourced to a company in India . . .

Here is a classic one to watch out for - the phone rings and it is a girl from a company you just made in order from. She has pulled up your account and has all your personal info except for your full CC number, which she has no access to. She says, "Hello, Mr. Smith, I'm Honesty Truth from The Company You Trust, and you just made an order for three rubber chickens. We have your order packaged and ready to ship, but unfortunately there was an issue running the card. If you will just give me that card number again, I can run it and we can get that order sent right out."

[Sixgun]

7.62.....that was quite a learning experience from your writing. Thank you!

It's just solidifies why I use cash...and postal money orders. I can wait the extra three days that it takes for the money order to get there.-----6

[7.62 Precision]

7.62.....that was quite a learning experience from your writing. Thank you!

It's just solidifies why I use cash...and postal money orders. I can wait the extra three days that it takes for the money order to get there.-----6

And why you buy those money orders. Were you to steal money orders from a PO, you would have a very big surprise when you tried to use them . . .

[2571]

Anyone can steal my identity .......in fact, they don't have to steal it, I'll give it to them.

Never owned a credit card in my life and my credit rating is "0"......not bad credit or good credit.......0.......paid off everything by the time I was 40 and have not borrowed a dime since.......

There's this product out there and it's real old fashioned........you don't see much of it anymore, the government and all financial institutions want to get rid of it and make it go away forever so they can have complete control of their subjects.........hint.....it's mostly green in color.----------6

Unrealistic.

[7.62 Precision]

Unrealistic.

Not at all. I know a number of people who don't use credit cards or even debit cards. Also, people who have had bad problems with unnecessary debt before will often use only cash to control their spending.

[Sixgun]

7.62.......to control their spending, as you say, is about the best explanation I see.

While I am good with spending and controlling my cash flow, it's A WHOLE LOT EASIER putting down the plastic than it is to fork over the c-notes.

It's makes total sense to me not to spend anymore than what you have, with the exception of the house you live in. Even with cars/trucks whatever, it's best to pay cash as you will only spend what you can afford and not all of the added bs like a sunroof, electric windows, heated seats, etc.

I also don't believe in "spending money"-------I prefer to get back anything that goes out of my pocket. That's another reason why I don't buy junk/foreign guns. I want a positive++ return.

I never made more than 44k a year and have never been in debt and have not owed anybody anything in the last 20 years. It's a mindset I have and if everyone else followed, the banks would collapse.----6

[Streetstar]

There have been times in my life that i wished someone would have stolen my identity, as it likely would have given my credit rating a huge boost instead of being a detriment