WHY I hate 'Windows'...

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:17 pm

1. The 'automatic updates' got out of sequence so I had to manually un-do a bunch and then spend two days 'updating' stuff.

2. After 'updating' the display periodically goes bonkers with inverse-colors and altered dimensions.

3. Windows has no utility to clarify whether this is an actual hardware failure vs. an update incompatibility.

4. Dell's "automatic backup" doesn't ever work right.

5. Window's "automatic restore" doesn't ever work right.

6. Doing a disk-by-disk 'backup' of files is labor-intensive, but the 'automatic' file-backup also never works right.

7. Eight disks (and eight hours) into a 'system backup', I get a 'system error' message that tells me NOTHING about whether or not the previous eight hours were in vain or not - all it does is STOP the backup.

8. BUT the "McIntosh" systems SUCK, due to the fact that there are no 'instructions' so although several family members have "Macs", they don't know how to do ANYTHING on them, because there is no manual, and the 'on-line' help tells little more than how to push the 'on' button...

[Terry Mode ON] THIS IS WHY I ALWAYS COME BACK TO GARDENING, GOLD, AND GUNS; THE SOIL IS ALWAYS THERE, THE VALUE OF GOLD DOESN'T CHANGE, AND GUNS PRETTY MUCH ALWAYS WORK.......

[/Terry Mode OFF]

Post by **AmBraCol** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:50 pm

That's why I keep plain backups of my important files. So far I'm up to four different Terabyte or larger external hard drives with copies of the files on them. Repeated redundancy is a good thing in backups. An easy way to keep track of what you've got is to create new master folders each year, semester, quarter or month - depending on how much info you build up. Then just do a quick drag and drop of the folder to an external hard drive every now and then. By using a format like year-month-day (ie: 2015-03-21 ) one keeps data files in order in different folders. The same works great with photos. Using a base file name like the above with 001, 002, 003 in a folder that reads 2015-03-21_first_day_of_spring lets you quickly find the pictures you're looking for.

If you're using software that doesn't keep info in plain format, then it's much tougher. The above guidelines work great for .doc .txt .jpg .mp3 and such.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:19 pm

Still better than a Mac!

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:28 pm

Updates? Mine tries to tell me that... then won't complete the process... I just keep the system tuned to "...notify me of updates..." but don't actually do anything.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:30 pm

Doc, are you talking about backup/restore? That is a pain. Paul's system is almost goof proof.

proprietary stuff like dell's backup is on the order of a virus and when I'm the admin I kill that stuff as fast as possible. but I also don't use antivirus software for the same reason. when someone needs antivirus I found the windows one to be as good as any and less resource bogging than mcafee or anything else I've tried.

the mac stuff? drag and drop, just like Paul does.

windows update? I think it can be scheduled. what version of windows do you use?

jhrosier · Post by **jhrosier** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:35 pm

AJMD429 wrote:.... GUNS PRETTY MUCH ALWAYS WORK......

I hear Micro$oft is going to write the operating system for the "Smart Guns" that the liberals are always pushing.

I switched from Windoze to Ubuntu (Linux) about 10 years ago and have had no reason to regret the change.

Jack

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:01 pm

you mean "winders" doncha?

http://sweetnesss.com/Jokes/27.html

mark · Post by **mark** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:58 am

Evening All

I don't expect much from Microsoft and am seldom disappointed. Windoze 8.1 is what I use on this Toshiba laptop.

As far as updates are concerned, in my experience its basically hit and miss, I tend to ignore them. After all, if you can't get it right the first time....

Heaven help anyone relying on it for their business.

I have no experience with Macs.

I am a firm advocate of the KISS system.

In my case, create a directory named "xyz" with multiple directories off it, into which all my work goes. Once a month I copy "xyz" to an external 2T drive, I then burn a DVD. I know that "differential" and "incremental" backups look good, but....

During the month, I upload important files, as attachments, to both hotmail and gmail.

"Microsoft Office"?, haven't used it for years. "Open Office" works for me.

Oh, the marinated chicken wings are ready. Time to go.

Cheers Mark

92&94 · Post by **92&94** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:30 am

linux!

OTOH, I do have to maintain a couple windblows machines for others in the family... they work a lot better without all that automatic stuff and virus software. Run limited accounts rather than admin, and even it you pick up some malware it can't do much other than mess up that one account.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:42 am

I do have data backups like suggested. It just frosts my butt that there isn't a simple AUTOMATIC means for that built-in to the operating system, since that (maintaining data integrity) is one of the most fundamental duties of the operating system.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:29 am

I've used linux as my default OS of choice for a long time, with open office.

however, there are things my wife's 8.1 mach with office will do that open office, or libre office, can't do at this point. there is software that still doesn't play nice in linux.

presenter mode in powerpoint for example. that's a very useful and beneficial addition to powerpoint, as well as the ability to save a ppt presention as an mpeg4 and run it as a kiosk or simply distribute the entire presentation, including online.

It will be a while until this exists in open office, if ever.

There are similar productivity features in the rest of the office suite that sometimes trump the freeby stuff.

I am on the verge of buying an i3 refurb box with W8.1Pro for the productivity gains. They can be bought for about the cost of the software licenses, a worthwhile addition to my network IMO. Anyone can use the power and convenience of the current software, which excels at the video and social networking vectors.

Not a windows fanboy, but I appreciate what it gets me when I need to get there.

Grizz

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:38 am

And yet, I and many like me have no problems with either Windows or Mac. I suppose that since I've been messing with computers since before they had hard drives, I tend to do things like upgrades myself. I do them one at a time. If something causes problems it comes right back out again and I move on.

I've had a couple of updates that were buggy over the years. Removed them, and in all cases within a few days another update came out that did what the first was supposed to do and this time it worked.

Remember, there are a vast number of different systems configured differently. Even with beta testing things often crop up once software hits the masses.

As to backup, if it's important, on a backup drive and a disc. Drive is kept at home, disc is stored off site. Doesn't mean a major disaster can't get both backups, but if it's that bad, what's on the computer is the least of my worries.

williamranks · Post by **williamranks** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:55 pm

They only invented Windows to tick me off according to a guy at the help desk. He thought he was being funny. I think he was right.
I have to use it for work and there's a Toshiba on the table behind me running Win 7 and Office 2010.
The biggest problems I've run into over the years and several different MS machines is the manufacturers thinking they can also write software.
With the XP Pro machine it was MS softpack 2, it wouldn't run on that HP machine without a patch. On that one MS had a security firewall and so did HP. They didn't like each other and did a lot of fighting. I wouldn't buy another one without paying someone set it up and get rid of the manufacturers junk programs.
On this one there were two wi-fi programs, Toshiba and MS, couldn't get that set up until I got rid of one of them.
The best way I've found to do backups with MS is to buy an external hard drive and only use the program that comes with it. Get rid of the other ones, if you can find them, and don't be surprised if the MS one comes back every time you get an update.

I've been using MAC since 2003. I still use that iBook for occasional web surfing, movies and games.
The first few weeks on the Mac were tough, getting used to simple. I kept trying to complicate things that weren't. Drag anything to a new place and it goes there, no copy left behind.
Back ups are, plug in an external drive and turn on time machine, it stores a complete copy of the hard drive and updates it daily. I used one that's too big, 1T. Using time machine I can go back to the day I installed it in Feb of '14, select a doc, program, file or anything else, hit the restore button and back it comes and it warns me if I'm going to lose any updates when I replace the current version.

Pisgah · Post by **Pisgah** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:57 pm

It is interesting to me that we have 2 new laptops in the house running 8.1, which I do not really like -- but, the HP works flawlessly, while the Toshiba is a nightmare. Go figure.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:24 pm

Pisgah wrote:It is interesting to me that we have 2 new laptops in the house running 8.1, which I do not really like -- but, the HP works flawlessly, while the Toshiba is a nightmare. Go figure.

Different hardware, configured differently from the factory. If you buy a new computer and it has problems, take it back. It's just like any other consumer device. They either make it work correctly or give you your money back. Folks wouldn't stand for a washer that sort of worked sometimes, yet they'll put up with buggy equipment or software to an amazing extent.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:28 pm

In a previous life, it was necessary to perform backups - large and small, enterprise wide and on individual computers - with a wide variety of systems. Time, space, and reader's interest all preclude my very long list of woes when it comes to relying upon out-of-the-box backup systems. That is, those that come with the various operating systems, computers, and whatnot.

Windows-bundled backups have been neither fast nor reliable since as far back as 1987 or earlier. That was the year that FastBack backup software was introduced and I started using that great product instead of the DOS free "Backup.exe" included with the operating system. Yeah, I'm old.

I have tried various computer-bundled backups, with each successive box I have owned, and have been underwhelmed and sometimes totally disappointed with these. Reliable and easy restoration has been frequently non-existent, so I tend to paint with my broad brush in saying "bundled backup programs are usually junk, therefore dangerous for you to rely upon."

You think the stuff is backed up, but then you can't restore it, or some of it hangs up and is "missing." Thank goodness that I have always used more than one type of backup, periodically.

AmBraCol wrote:That's why I keep plain backups of my important files. So far I'm up to four different Terabyte or larger external hard drives with copies of the files on them. Repeated redundancy is a good thing in backups...By using a format like year-month-day (ie: 2015-03-21 ) one keeps data files in order in different folders. The same works great with photos. Using a base file name like the above with 001, 002, 003 in a folder that reads 2015-03-21_first_day_of_spring...

Yup - that has worked for me for decades!
Reliable "image" type backup software - that ALSO restores properly. There are many products on the market - using an external drive with a folder for the dated backup like:
C150324

...shows me it's the complete C:\ drive, Year 2015, Month March, 24th day - therefore sorted properly by date format. Many backup programs allow you to find the proper backup because the date is embedded in the backup file name.

As careful as I have been with anti-virus products, their updates, and a strong firewall, I have still been stung by malware. But thankfully the complete restore was painless and quick with Paragon Pro. Others, that used to work (like even premium packages like Acronis True Image) have failed me.

Like AmBraCol posted, almost all of my documents have a date, like a Word document letter to a friend or associate looks like:
Ltr2LRanger_150101.docx (Letter to Lone Ranger 2015 Jan 1st)
Fax2VeeblefetzerFactoryJAnderson_121201.doc (Fax to a business person)
Powder_Needed_Suggested_BulletsOnHand_20131104.xls (A reloading spreadsheet)

Photos are date then subject, like ArmBraCol:
120605_deFresnoFamHome - DeFresno family at home on June 5, 2012
Pre-2000 year photos were done differently, but the 2k century photos are all together.

Photos and family videos are described by date first, so the date info is first in the file name. That way, they show up in proper chronological order as the computer automatically sorts by title.

Any document can be found quickly using your (not-so-good) built-in search function (at least it's not so hot with the PC's; don't know about Macs). Or you can download the free "Search Everything" software that is phenomenal - reliable and quick - to search for any part of your file's title, listing all files with the name or date information, which can then be opened with a click.

With an older operating system, I used to format my hard disk so that there was a "D:\" drive to hold all the data (which includes e-mail), which was backed up with simple file transfer software, and backups were done daily or weekly, depending upon how sensitive or extensive the work was in a given week.

Then, the C:\ drive with its application software was "imaged" but less frequently as noted above.

With Windows 8.1 as my current O/S, it is an easy matter to back up the "My Documents" folder contents on a daily basis, using straight forward file copy software. Every software has its pluses and minuses; my particular data backup is run at the end of the day and then the computer shuts itself off.

The other process, which speeds backups and helps to preserve data, is to use a good defragmenter occasionally on your computer and external drive. There are many free ones - good ones - online. Just watch out for the stuff that includes adware or malware. CNet.com (among others) offers various free packages, but be sure to use the "Advanced" download to say "Just Say No" to various packages that they try to install with your product.

As an aside, I use Glary Pro Utilities with its outstanding computer health tools that includes a great defragmenter/optimizer. But I have tested and been satisfied with another great FREE and reputable defragmenter for Windows systems, available here:
http://ultradefrag.sourceforge.net/en/index.html

EDITED FOR CORRECT LINK AND BACKUP SOFTWARE NAMES

Panzercat · Post by **Panzercat** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:16 pm

Win 8 has been running pretty decently. The dumbing down of most of the interface annoys me, but i can still get under the hood easily enough. Honestly, that many problems reeks of a virus or something. Drop into safe-mode if you haven't already and then start trying some things, like a restore point or virus checking.

I, too, use an external HDD connected by USB to back up my stuff. I save everything i care about to a central location, that way i can just drag and drop the entire folder into the backup HDD. Done and done. If the OS tanks, I still have the backup completely independent of the machine ready for when i do a complete reinstall. Norton Ghost is an excellent utility as well if you can get a hold of it. Clones the entire OS and everything on it so it can be overwritten if your current OS goes south; like laying new concrete over the old.

Walker · Post by **Walker** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:01 pm

Feel your pain Doc. I've been on ubuntu for a long time but still have to troubleshoot my wife's laptop and school system. At work, we've got VMs set up and use clonezilla to dump images anytime a configuration changes. Anything goes south, we just restore the previous good image.

Panzercat · Post by **Panzercat** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:23 pm

Walker wrote:something something clonezilla...

A quick search later and you just made my day. I love open source.
...And then, aw nuts. Linux only. I guess as long as it has its own DVD or stick it's g2g.

92&94 · Post by **92&94** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:42 pm

Panzercat wrote:Win 8 has been running pretty decently. The dumbing down of most of the interface annoys me, but i can still get under the hood easily enough. Honestly, that many problems reeks of a virus or something. Drop into safe-mode if you haven't already and then start trying some things, like a restore point or virus checking.

I, too, use an external HDD connected by USB to back up my stuff. I save everything i care about to a central location, that way i can just drag and drop the entire folder into the backup HDD. Done and done. If the OS tanks, I still have the backup completely independent of the machine ready for when i do a complete reinstall. Norton Ghost is an excellent utility as well if you can get a hold of it. Clones the entire OS and everything on it so it can be overwritten if your current OS goes south; like laying new concrete over the old.

Independently backing up folders as needed works well, I used to do that last time I had a windows machine at work - around 1995. Then I did my own daily backups of my data directory, with everything in it organized into sub-directories. One line in a terminal window and it would zip the directory and link it across as many floppies as needed. These days you can just drop a whole folder onto a thumbdrive instead.

I've never quite understood the need to back up the OS too (at least for personal machines), but then I'm not using windows.... It does take a little time to reset everything when reinstalling a linux OS, or when moving to another machine, but its really not bad. An hour of set up at the outside, and it all works.

Usually I partition the HD for a system area and the bulk of the disk as the /home area - that way reinstalling an OS doesn't mess with any of the user data. That is a common enough set up now that most of the linux installer utilities recognize it when they see it and don't even offer to format the /home partition as part of the install.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:55 pm

92&94 wrote: ...I've never quite understood the need to back up the OS too (at least for personal machines), but then I'm not using windows.... It does take a little time to reset everything when reinstalling a linux OS, or when moving to another machine, but its really not bad. An hour of set up at the outside, and it all works.

There is that virus issue, as happened to me. You must start completely over, ya know - wipe literally everything off your drives, including system hookups to your screen, speakers, any peripherals - even hard drives. Driver files for any of that equipment are usually hard to locate, by the way.

With systems that have not had a lot of updates, new software, and tweaks, it is probably easy to just re-install a system with the original discs. An example would be a user who only uses their computer for e-mails with the data files already backed up separately, and perhaps one or two other applications at the most - a word processor and some multimedia software for music or photos, perhaps.

But add spreadsheets, databases, maybe a video game, ballistic software, and other things - all with updates, fixes and patches - and it becomes a nightmare to re-install the programs. Many times you have to re-start the computer multiple times.

In my case, I have literally many hundred applications, since my vocation in the past was heavily involved with computer related work and tools. I remember one time that I did not have a proper backup, several years ago. As alluded to above, I used a well known commercial backup program, but it did not restore properly, despite numerous attempts. That was when I started backing up everything with two different (alternating) programs in case this should ever happen again.

The restoration by using my installation discs took over a month, a little each day as I had time and on weekends several hours a day. It resulted in the loss of much productive time, not counting all the frustration during that very long month.

Compare this with image backups. Put in a disc or thumb drive, attach a USB cable, click some things and then let the computer restore itself in a couple of hours - re-installing literally scores of programs, hundreds of patches, and thousands of files. I would strongly urge everyone who uses the computer for anything more than just e-mails and letters to consider this option.

1 Terabyte external hard drives and good backup programs are cheap these days, for the amount of trouble and time that they save.

92&94 · Post by **92&94** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:38 pm

JohndeFresno wrote:
92&94 wrote: ...I've never quite understood the need to back up the OS too (at least for personal machines), but then I'm not using windows.... It does take a little time to reset everything when reinstalling a linux OS, or when moving to another machine, but its really not bad. An hour of set up at the outside, and it all works.
There is that virus issue, as happened to me. You must start completely over, ya know - wipe literally everything off your drives, including system hookups to your screen, speakers, any peripherals - even hard drives. Driver files for any of that equipment are usually hard to locate, by the way.

With systems that have not had a lot of updates, new software, and tweaks, it is probably easy to just re-install a system with the original discs. An example would be a user who only uses their computer for e-mails with the data files already backed up separately, and perhaps one or two other applications at the most - a word processor and some multimedia software for music or photos, perhaps.

But add spreadsheets, databases, maybe a video game, ballistic software, and other things - all with updates, fixes and patches - and it becomes a nightmare to re-install the programs. Many times you have to re-start the computer multiple times.

In my case, I have literally many hundred applications, since my vocation in the past was heavily involved with computer related work and tools. I remember one time that I did not have a proper backup, several years ago. As alluded to above, I used a well known commercial backup program, but it did not restore properly, despite numerous attempts. That was when I started backing up everything with two different (alternating) programs in case this should ever happen again.

The restoration by using my installation discs took over a month, a little each day as I had time and on weekends several hours a day. It resulted in the loss of much productive time, not counting all the frustration during that very long month.

Compare this with image backups. Put in a disc or thumb drive, attach a USB cable, click some things and then let the computer restore itself in a couple of hours - re-installing literally scores of programs, hundreds of patches, and thousands of files. I would strongly urge everyone who uses the computer for anything more than just e-mails and letters to consider this option.

1 Terabyte external hard drives and good backup programs are cheap these days, for the amount of trouble and time that they save.

Yeah, like I said, been using linux too long to get most of that. Burn a bootable dvd of the virgin OS, install in the system partition, then update the out of date files once it's installed. Takes about an hour, most of that the updates. Used to be a real pain to get peripheral hardware running, but these days a lot of manufacturers are supplying linux drivers too, just a question of downloading them and running a shell script that they provide for you. Older hardware - like my 1995 vintage HP 4p printer - often works with linux machines long after MS quits supporting it.

Can't say as I've ever had a virus. I ran a windows machine for years with no AV software, just as a limited account behind a router. Once in about 7 years of that I got a bit of malware that was easy enough to nuke - knew right when it happened, logged out of that account and logged in as the admin. Manually deleted everything dated since the previous day, including undoing registry changes as I recall (I may be fuzzy on that one though). Nothing to it. Of course, that wasn't much of a virus as those things go, just a little terd of a script written to take advantage of the extremely slow target that windows has been for 20 years.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:08 pm

92&94 wrote: Yeah, like I said, been using linux too long to get most of that...
Can't say as I've ever had a virus. I ran a windows machine for years with no AV software...
malware that was easy enough to nuke...Manually deleted everything dated since the previous day, including undoing registry changes...
Wwindows has been [an extremely slow (easy) target] for 20 years.

Yes, all that makes sense. I have audited Linux variations - Red Hat, Ubuntu, Knoppix, GNU-based, and whatever had that Penguin mascot. And then the Open Office apps and similars.

I've loaded 'em onto this machine and earlier computers, at one time using a box as a split system as an experiment. Linux has much good stuff, and apparently is not as easily targeted. Unfortunately, for me and many others, it is just that vulnerability of Windows - its interopability, multi-threading, and open linkages - that is its bane but also its brilliance.

In Windows I created (among many other db's) a "Handloads" database that uses MS Access that makes lots of decisions upon data entry (e.g. components on hand, how many loads from a pound of powder based upon grains of a load, etc. from the entry screen) and the push of a button creates some useful summaries and reports.

But it required some algorithms written in Visual Basic and Access Basic; no Linux personal desktop database will allow that. Some of my other db's that make automated lists, Christmas mailing labels, and mail merge letters using existing spreadsheets and other source info. In fact, they kept my head above water when I was a working man.

I have tried to do some of this stuff with Linux and its tools over the years but they are just not there, to the extent required, unless one uses extremely complex enterprise type software programming. So - I'm stuck with the buggy but powerful Windoze arena.

If you can get by with what you need in Linux, you have a great platform!

92&94 · Post by **92&94** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:42 pm

In theory (and many a waste of time has started with those two words

), you could run MS Access in a linux system using an emulator like Wine. All you need is Wine installed and the binary of the MS program plus any supporting files. Of course, I've only used this to run pretty simple stuff like card games my mom likes that I took off her last windows machine and ran on the new linux machine (which was 10 years ago).

In practice, it may be more trouble than its worth

EDIT:
There is also this thing - http://www.kexi-project.org/
No idea how well it works though

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:26 pm

92&94 wrote:In theory ..you could run MS Access in a linux system using an emulator like Wine...

Hmmmm

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:26 pm

might be useful to point out that linux is a subset of unix. unix is the basis of Mac operating systems. the bulk of the internet runs on Apache servers, another unix derivation. most of the millions of routers on the planet are running unix or linux, and all android devices are plain jane linux with a shell on top, as with Macs.

a 'secure' Mac got hacked in 5 minutes at a Las Vegas hackers convention one year.

unix can be and has been hacked and co-opted. unless stiffly defended it can be "rooted" from outside the network, and it can be done so than no one but a security expert can discover the fact that someone in some dark place in the opposite hemisphere is using your computer for nefarious villany. this is roughly the scenario for those hijack-hackings we read about. ditto Macs. and of course windows server is not hack-proof either.

the security conscious encrypt every file, every drive, every email with strong encryption with real passwords. that way their dotgovt can waste their coal fired electricity cooling towers of parallel supercomputers trying to break your encryption. then they will spend the next several weeks trying to figure out why you ever kept that stuff to begin with . . . .

GN All

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:18 am

flightsimmer · Post by **flightsimmer** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:33 am

Is there an operating system for a computer that cannot be screwed up?
I mean like I've got an Android phone and I don't have problems with it and I use it just like I would my computer. As a matter of fact I don't even use my computer much anymore because of the virus's and problems associated with them.
Is it impossible to make such a system?

williamranks · Post by **williamranks** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:01 am

I've used the built in File Vault on the Mac since the first one. It's supposed to encrypt the entire hard drive, files, folders, programs, settings.
Does it make it safer? How would I know? I've never been hacked that I know of. Anyone who did would die of boredom.

92&94 · Post by **92&94** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:09 am

Grizz wrote:might be useful to point out that linux is a subset of unix. unix is the basis of Mac operating systems. the bulk of the internet runs on Apache servers, another unix derivation. most of the millions of routers on the planet are running unix or linux, and all android devices are plain jane linux with a shell on top, as with Macs.

a 'secure' Mac got hacked in 5 minutes at a Las Vegas hackers convention one year.

unix can be and has been hacked and co-opted. unless stiffly defended it can be "rooted" from outside the network, and it can be done so than no one but a security expert can discover the fact that someone in some dark place in the opposite hemisphere is using your computer for nefarious villany. this is roughly the scenario for those hijack-hackings we read about. ditto Macs. and of course windows server is not hack-proof either.

the security conscious encrypt every file, every drive, every email with strong encryption with real passwords. that way their dotgovt can waste their coal fired electricity cooling towers of parallel supercomputers trying to break your encryption. then they will spend the next several weeks trying to figure out why you ever kept that stuff to begin with . . . .

GN All

That is a true thing, almost no computer system is secure to a motivated and sophisticated hacker.

The point, however, is that your system need not be so. You only need to run faster than the MS user that the malware bear is chasing. Due to how windows is most often used (everyone is an Admin), and MS's huge marketshare worldwide, that bear is chasing a slow, fat, wheezing, asthmatic system, not very hard to run faster than that. Heck, even running your windows as a limited user does an awful lot to protect you from the bulk of malware.

The other thing that helps a lot is that the sophisticated hackers are not going after joe schmoe's PC to steal his personal information. They are going after Home Depot's server to steal the personal information of a few million joe schmoes. Or they are going after healthcare.gov to steal the personal information of 30 million schmoes.

92&94 · Post by **92&94** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:11 am

flightsimmer wrote:Is there an operating system for a computer that cannot be screwed up?
I mean like I've got an Android phone and I don't have problems with it and I use it just like I would my computer. As a matter of fact I don't even use my computer much anymore because of the virus's and problems associated with them.
Is it impossible to make such a system?

Not at all impossible, it's what I keep talking about. Not immune, but pretty darn good for the bulk of casual use. Android runs a linux kernel if that tells you anything - you answered your own question

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:08 pm

OK, I think I can safely say that this thread has progressed into personal computer security issues, so it would not be improper to address several of these questions.

If you don't want to deal with somewhat nerdy issues about how to protect computer assets, then read on - ignore this post - so that you don't get impatient with JohndeFresno.

Firstly, the last truly secure computer operating system (OS) was PC-DOS 3.1. That is merely because DOS 3.2 was introduced in 1986, as was the first computer virus. It was created by some folks overseas who wanted to safeguard their product from pirating. You can look that up by Googling "First Computer Virus;" enough said.

Mac users, for more than a decade, had been smugly bragging that their system was virus proof, until a series of successful virus attacks dashed that belief to pieces. The truth became apparent that, although Mac programming architecture and its operation is quite different from the Windows world, the absence of attacks was mainly due to a much smaller commercial footprint.

Macs are most popular with students, artists (graphics and music), and in use by laboratories and closed technical systems like doctors' offices. The former group of users (students) were introduced to the product through very clever marketing by the Apple folks, who flooded universities with Macs at a very low price, thus initiating new users. The latter group - artists, techhies and labs - like Macs because they were the first graphics based personal computing systems, so they handled visual displays, music tones, subtle shades of color, and so on quite well. There may be even more to that; I'm not a Mac worshipper.

Compare these closed systems and less visible sampling of Mac Internet users and you have the reason that there are much more virus attacks on non-Mac systems. There are various ways to look at sales of computers, usage online, and so on. One view (using Wikipedia info) gives a rough footprint of 55% of computers being Windows based, and only around 17% being Mac systems. A further breakdown (from a few studies I did when I was gainfully employed to do this stuff) showed an overwhelming amount of serious commerce related "business" computing was done with PC and "Windows" operating systems, and a very small percentage of that usage was done on Mac systems. The hackers, trojan horse coders, malware manufacturers, and teeny-bopper opportunists are like wolves - they would rather spend their time and energy pursuing the most target-rich prey - the system that produces the most reward and/or notoriety. And then, there are also many more after market applications (Windows vs. Mac) that can be more easily hacked and placed on the Internet - even on market shelves, in a few instances - that will then attack Windows systems and send back a payload to the predators. The payload can be data from computers like your bank account number and ID info, passwords, etc. Or it can be something that locks up your computer and holds it for monetary ransom (Cryptoviruses).

Some solutions to mitigate these attacks, next post.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:35 pm

This post is about computer security - may be boring to the casual user who only uses their box to browse some sites and handle e-mails.

Since the days of Compuserve dial-up connections, our personal computing has now evolved into full-blown instant sharing of any type of data via the "World Wide Net" that we call the Internet. Many successful attacks to your system have been published online in an ongoing, exponential explosion. For more than two decades, snippets of code are been available even to teenagers, maybe even younger, who can then launch attacks from their home systems. There is even a name for this group of cyber vandals - "Script Kiddies."

Enough of that. Here are some suggestions on how to protect yourself. Some get to be expensive, but it depends upon how much stuff you do on your electronic keyboard, and how sensitive it is, whether you make a living with your computer, and so on.

1. Good antivirus program - that is the start, and no longer a "should have" item. But it is no good unless you get constant updates to new viruses, just like new flu innoculations. A dollar, please, for the number of folks who have cried to me that they have a virus, but who were too lazy to download the updates for their antivirus application.

2. Firewall to limit your footprint on the Internet and your hidden "doors" of surreptitious entry, called "Ports" in geek language. Windows systems have one, although it is marginally effective. I disconnected my Windows Firewall and installed the Norton Internet Security package. There are other good ones out there.

3. Forwarded cutesy e-mails with attachments - Santa Claus on a rocking chair with a musical tune, forwarded by your best friend, usually with 30 or more other recipients. Don't open them. Paragraphs could be written as to why; but for brevity's sake: a) They may have been "spoofed," not sent by your friend at all; b) They may work as expected, but with a hidden coding that activates something quite bad after they have resided for a time on your computer and others, thus giving them time to infect other unsuspecting users; c) Many other reasons. This is perhaps the biggest source of viruses, at least among my friends and associates.

4. Questionable Internet sites - My Norton Internet Security package warns me if the site is questionable. As a point in fact (but thankfully not from personal experience), several people I have talked with have had their computers infected after visting porno sites (especially predator rich), online gambling sites (frequented by site hijacking software), and hacker sites that can simultaneously furnish you with hijacking codes and information while infecting your computer at the same time - when you click for a download. All of these sites update their attacks and are among the most effective in creating new attacks that your anti-virus software has not yet learned to innoculate against or detect. The reason: They make a lot of money, so many professional cybercrooks are perfecting and updating the coding.

4. Anything from a bank about your account, or anything that you have to click upon to read the message. Call that bank and ask them if they sent you something. Just clicking might open a virus that is not yet registered with, and therefore innoculated by, your anti-virus program.

5. Personal VPN (Virtual Private Network) account if you are a heavy or heavily invested user, or do payments or banking by mail. I use Private VPN by Surfbouncer, and it is not free. But it uses extremely effective encryption to make your data streams unintelligible by those who can intercept wireless computer traffic or otherwise tap into the Internet through various means. The gubbmint is a good example.

6. Starbucks Free Wi-Fi - there are many accounts of folks who sit in these lounges to intercept your wireless transmissions. See item Nr. 5 if you use a hotel, coffee shop, cruise line computer lounge, wireless home router, or any place where you are not wired directly into your home system. Remember that anything requiring a password can be read and then emulated if somebody intercepts your wireless traffic.

7. One password for all - very, very bad. Let's say that your user identification and password is hacked from just one site, from the INSIDE by an employee from the company's servers. Your password, user id, and perhaps IP address, even more info might be sold for a certain price to a large list of other exploitable targets and shared with several cyber pirates. I have literally hundreds of passwords, but that poses no problem. I merely log into my computer program that then remembers the password for each site. My particular program, which automatically synchronizes with my cell phone using encrypted files, is inexpensive, but experimentation has shown me that it is the best of its kind: Roboform Pro. If you use a very limited number of passwords, the program is free.

8. Passphrases - actually, dictionary and number loop password attacks can be done in a very short time by software that is free and available through hacker sites. With the power of today's computers, you need a password that is rather long, with more than just numbers. Numbers are very, very quickly cracked with number looping - 1-9999 for instance, including 0001-9999 or higher. But passphrases, using numbers, symbols (if permitted), lower and uppercase alpha characters, and around 12 digits, are considered strong.

If you are a Packers fan, don't use Packers#1, especially at a sport site.

Don't use your wife's or child's birthdate. Nor your dog's name. These show up on Facebook and in your correspondence.

Again, with Roboform, it is no big thing. But I have had to carry various passphrases with me, so here are some ideas of relatively easy to remember passphrases, relevant to the site or software used:

Hunting forum - your favorite hunting spot, but truncated, and your gun caliber
LkMeade30-30

Political forum - permit me a little sarcasm here
NutzAboutBama!
Hillary-4-2016

LevergunsCommunity
BestSiteEvah!

Note the humor (from my point of view) that helps me to remember; mixed upper-lower case; symbol; and numbers in two of them, plus 12 or more characters. This would takes years of permutations for a "brute force" attack (so it is called) to crack password, unless you are talking about massive government computing arrays.

9. Wiping programs - e.g. a program that really erases your online keystrokes and "erased files" that might hold sensitive financial data and passwords (to name two) that a hacker would want to access if your computer were stolen or lost. You need software, readily available, that overwrites your files with characters, say "0" and then "1", that are tagged as "out of use" - but are still there - when you hit the delete button. I use CCleaner to clean out hidden system files that store an amazing amount of old data, and I ALWAYS wipe my "erased" files and slack file space with BCWipe, instead of "deleting" them. There are other similar products out there, but be sure that you get one that actually does the job, completely, and that wipes all of the hidden files and slack space in your computer.

10. Encryption programs - You can indeed encrypt your whole drive, individual folders, etc. Your computer is quite possibly the first thing that a burglar will steal, and he can "snatch and run" with the device before your delayed home alarm system alerts the police, unless you leave it locked up. Or you could have your notebook computer stolen at an airport, if momentarily unattended or stashed in the baggage. Even with a log-on, these devices are not all that secure.

For me, I choose to encrypt one 5 GB file, containing passwords, health and financial information, anything of a sensitive nature. Cryptainer was my choice until its support dropped out this year (or last year?). I now use TrueCrypt because it is easy to use, relatively inexpensive, and uses very powerful encryption. It opens up with a batch file and one master passphrase, just like Roborm.

11. I am extremely careful with my cyber exposure. Yet, I used a major credit card at a nearby Target superstore for a minor purchase a couple of months ago. I had not frequented any Target store, nor made an online purchase, for six months or so prior to this purchase. Within 4 days of my purchase, my ever vigilant bank security agents spotted an unusual 1 penny purchase followed immediately by a $400 purchase and notified me.

My card had been one of thousands that had been hacked, either from a crooked employee inside the Target company or else from an outside cyber attack, or perhaps through a combination of both, as is frequently the case. Who knows? But thankfully, my situation was spotted, I destroyed my card and received a new account, and of course had to change all of my account info for those merchants with whom I do business with online.

Don't ever use your credit card online or at a store? That is up to you. But I, for one, now pay with cash at Target. And I check my credit card expenditures quite closely each month, as I have always done before.

These are all things that, in fact, I use and employ. There may be something obvious that I forgot, or that someone else in the industry can mention. It is clear to me that we have people in this forum with similar computer security experience.

Richardx · Post by **Richardx** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:42 pm

JohndeFresno thanks for the great advice, and I am glad someone still contacts the Veeblefetzer Company!

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:54 pm

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:57 pm

not all, but most of my online transactions are from a live cd booted to ram with no hard drives hooked up. yup, I pull the data cables from the drives. my locked down compluter won't even work with a lot of sites because I have private browsing on and don't allow cookies but'cept for a forum or two. that leaves nothing to hack on my end, the disc cannot be written to and can't be exploited with root kits. a live linux CD is also a rescuer for windows boxes that are compromised. often I can get clean file transfers to rescue data and sometimes I can spot and delete the virus, because no windows "security" applies to the linux os. funny business, eh?

dittos on using internet cable connections, it is very much more secure than wireless. and remember that your email sends passwords in the clear, so a packet sniffer reads them. that's how I find out someone's email password when I have to work on their computer, say set up another email client or fix a buggered one.

open range browsing, say at iHop, with an android tablet that doesn't have any personal info on it, is probably less risky than using a work or home laptop with all kinds of exploitable goodies on it. mine doesn't share any account info with any other computer or profile I have.

tor browser has some benefits and tails linux can keep up with encryption and secure disc space wiping, but as much as I like it, it has certain foibles that I am not in a mood to put up with, unless there is a good reason, like end to end encryption for file transfers. they have to be encrytpted because the exit tor server has an unencrypted connection to your box. funny business, eh?

Grizz

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:25 pm

Grizz wrote:not all, but most of my online transactions are from a live cd booted to ram with no hard drives hooked up. yup, I pull the data cables from the drives...
Grizz

Good stuff, Grizz.

A few years ago, I occasionally used a product called Shadow User Pro (later ShadowStor called it something else). Now, you can find it on the Internet but it has no updates and is no longer supported. I still have the installation file, but have no idea if it would even be effective with a 64 bit system.

It ran the same way, in virtual memory (RAM, Random Access Memory which is volatile and is lost when you turn your machine off, to the uninitiated). I could visit sites anonymously without picking up malware or intrusions, and program things as a test without making permanent changes.

I used the product mainly to test new software for my employer, without having to deal with messy and sometimes troublesome uninstalls, product test date limitations, and the like.

Yours sounds like a clever way to do the same thing but not be limited to a particular version of Windows.

But, of course, it's easier to be a bit lazy and just use my box without all of the extra work, now that my needs are mainly personal and I have all the stuff installed.

Panzercat · Post by **Panzercat** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:27 pm

I think the imaging need comes from the complete lack of physical disks that PC makers ship as policy now and days. My HP relies on a recovery partition because that could never get corrupted, right?

At least in my case, ghost imaging is my solution to manufacturer cost cutting.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:37 pm

A bit of Internet checking reveals that Shadow User is still downloadable from some sources, but that it only works reliably up to Windows XP or at best Windows 7. The latter system may allow some rootkits to bypass the system, according to some posts.

A new product is available that does the same thing, and you can browse the website if you are interested.
http://www.shadowdefender.com/

Here is the problem with these "virtual systems" or "sandboxes" - now I remember why I quit using it, except for product testing. If you download anything, even e-mail, then it all goes away when you reboot. That is in fact the nature and essence of the software - to prevent any changes in your computer. Although it was an excellent way to safely test various software products, it prevented the user from receiving permanent data.

It might be a great investment for those who leave their e-mail on the Internet or just browse and use forums like this one. I would back up everything before using it, just in case this particular product has some unexpected security weaknesses, and save that backup separately in case a delayed bit of malware slips past the software.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:50 pm

is that a virtual machine thingy? that's how linux can host say, a win2k or a winxp box inside the linux environment.

kind of slow and kludgy but I can see how it would be good for keeping city employees from being their own admins!

can you save data to a usb drive?

Grizz

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:02 am

Grizz wrote:...can you save data to a usb drive?

Grizz

Yes, it's like viewing a movie on Netflix but not being able to save it.

No, it won't allow you to save anything to anything on your computer, disk or CD drive(s), or any peripheral attached to it! The data manipulation is all done in RAM, but no disk writes take place, like using your CD or DVD (reader mode) as a source program.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:50 am

JohndeFresno wrote:
Grizz wrote:...can you save data to a usb drive?

Grizz
Yes, it's like viewing a movie on Netflix but not being able to save it.

No, it won't allow you to save anything to anything on your computer, disk or CD drive(s), or any peripheral attached to it! The data manipulation is all done in RAM, but no disk writes take place, like using your CD or DVD (reader mode) as a source program.

actually that's how my box is set up with puppy linux. it boots off of cd and loads my profile off of a hard drive or thumb drive and saves everything to the hard disc. if I want more secure access I just pull the data cable from the drive and do a boot into default linux. I run the box with the case open and the drives are loose, I can reach in and grab them. when I travel the drives go to a happy place where they are more secure than my office... it's not paranoia if "they" are really out to get them. Heh.

Grizz

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:45 pm

Grizz wrote: actually that's how my box is set up with puppy linux. it boots off of cd and loads my profile off of a hard drive or thumb drive and saves everything to the hard disc. if I want more secure access I just pull the data cable from the drive and do a boot into default linux.
Grizz

There is a term that I hate hearing because it is so overused, for everything, that to me it makes the speaker sound like an idiot. But it should be used to describe your setup:
Sweet!
In my failing memory, we did something like that - maybe just that - when I was working with computer forensics - reading crooks' seized computer equipment.