Made my decision on what to do about a truck "rifle"

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rjohns94
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Made my decision on what to do about a truck "rifle"

Post by rjohns94 »

Going to go with a 5.56 pistol build. I'm going with a 11.5 inch barrel, quad rail of 10", flip up sights on full length top rail, an aim point, a sure fire scout light, and a sig brace. Haven't ever done a build from scratch so looking for thoughts on whose parts to use. Uppers seem to run from 250 to 900, some with BCG and others not. So...... What upper? Lower? Trigger assy? BCG? Buffer? Do they have extended buffers? 1:7 or 1:9 for the 11.5 inch barrel? And I guess the bottom line, does it matter which? Do you get what you pay for or is it incremental gains for big cash? I was thinking of an adjustable gas system so I can adjust for suppressed and non suppressed. Thoughts on that? Also probably going to use black hills 77grain ammo for PD. Does that force me towards the 1:7? Or will 1:9'stabilize it so I don't get baffle contact out of the short barrel. I don't go on other forums so that's why I'm asking here. Thanks
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Re: Made my decision on what to do about a truck "rifle"

Post by AJMD429 »

Just use a 'pistol' buffer tube (no stock attaching stuff on it) and buffer and spring to match for function; keeps it legal and compact and will fit Sig Arm brace (watch not to get large diameter tube though). Spike's tactical was snug but perfect. I actually drilled matching holes in the upper and lower and epoxied in a pin to the pistol upper so it can't be attached to any lower except my legally registered 'pistol' lower with the matching hole to receive that pin. Just a precaution lest anyone allege I sneak it on to a 'rifle' lower for an illegal SBR. Might just get a stamp anyway in case they change the rules on the Sig Arm Brace, although I shot the gun plenty without the arm brace and it was fine that way - so if they ever change the rules I could just remove it.

Good adjustable gas block can be tuned then locktited in position, or some use a set-screw that locks the adjustment. Mine for 300 Blk pistol easily adjusted to one position allowing perfect function for both 125 grain supers and 220 grain subsonic with and without suppressor, so 223 should be doable the same way I'd think.

Consider 45 degree iron sights canted to right; rotating it to the left actually feels more natural and allows you to use your left hand on the handguard to steady your aim, so in that case 45 degree sights are faster to deploy (no pause to 'pop them up') and probably more durable than flip-ups. Cost less too.

For luxury and compactness and discrete storage (storable in non-'gun' cases), consider the LawTactical folding adapter.

I used a Dillon Aero Precision lower which I bought and registered specifically as a handgun, and CMMG upper without forward assist or dust-flap just to save parts and weight. I've read that 90% of the lowers are made by about six companies, and others on this forum have said that mostly 'brand' isn't a big issue with upper or lower. Bolt Carrier group and barrel are the biggies, but unless you want some gold-plated, moly-coated, nitride thing, the more ordinary name-brands seem to work pretty flawlessly without excessive cost. Triggers on a non-varmint setup I like to keep simple, without adjustments to work loose, but maybe I'm just not a good enough shot to shoot the difference. I do like the idea of side-charging receivers that I've seen, but they are hugely pricey, so I settled for a Bravo Company charging handle that seemed a bit stronger than the Bushmaster one I had laying around.

I chose 300 Blk because ammo now widely available and the 180 gr Gorilla ammo is subsonic and very accurate in mine, and affordable, PLUS is NOT DEAFENING if I shoot without hearing protection or without putting on the suppressor (I won't keep a can on a truck gun). The 'build' was NO MORE COSTLY than a 223 build as I bought the CMMG barrel for $108, plus if I really just have to go with 223 ALL the parts are identical except barrel so no more than just the cost of a short 223 barrel, plus a few rounds of ammo to reset the gas setting. Plus the 300 Blk was designed around the short barrels so I lose little performance from the short and compact 8" barrel, whereas a 223 from even an 11" is a compromise. No fear of baffle strikes with even subsonic 220 grainers in the 1:7 twist.

Image

Has a decent light on it and small under-barrel style pistol laser where the thumb on the forend rests. No optics at this point, but considering a Burris Fastfire-II because the ones I've had on other firearms have been flawless and reliable.
Last edited by AJMD429 on Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Made my decision on what to do about a truck "rifle"

Post by Streetstar »

Your specs sound a lot like my last AR pistol build - (minus the Aimpoint and flashlight)

I used a long Spikes pistol buffer tube - it uses a standard carbine buffer and does not have the issues pistol length buffers sometimes have --- it runs just like a standard M4. --- As for upper and lower receivers, - just pick your poison - they are all mostly the same

My barrel was 1/7" twist , and of all places, was made by Mossberg -- it was not chrome plated and had a heavy machine gun barrel profile - even under the handguard (which is a yankee hill if i remember correctly )

--- not sure if that would be the right barrel for you, - but i had it on hand, it worked and was accurate enough ---- the bolt carrier group was M16 stuff --- i just liked the idea of the heavier bolt in a pistol like this

As for the trigger assembly -- i just used a standard off the shelf Rock River lower parts kit --- these and the commonly available DPMS lower parts kits yield good results for a "combat grade" trigger pull
couple the heavy barrel with the free float tube - and this "pistol" was as accurate as any other non target spec AR i have shot --- i mounted a standard rifle scope to it at one time to check it out with 68 grain match ammo and it was hovering around .75" to 1" off a good sandbag rest , - and 2-3" groups with cheap XM193 ball type ammo (55 grain)

I think that is a Viking single point sling i have mounted up as well --- works well with a sling like that

This is one of the ones i probably should have kept , -- but oh well - i didnt - :lol: -- the assembled rifle/ er....pistol was much better than the sum of its parts would lead most to believe

I have a forward grip mounted on mine --- just keep in mind that that is a big no-no unless the pistol meets some OAL requirements (this one did) -- any shorter than this (and off the top of my head , i forgot the exact number ) - and a pistol grip on the fore end is bad news , but Magpul makes a "work around" type of forward grip doo-hicky that works also

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Re: Made my decision on what to do about a truck "rifle"

Post by Malamute »

I've studies this stuff a bit recently, and have come to a couple of conclusions. Yes, there are a certain number of companies that make forgings, but I don't think they do all the finish machining for everyone. Most work fine, but some companies have more problems with keeping their finish machining as on spec than others. Cost doesn't always equate to quality, some lower priced parts seem to be pretty good on average, though the lower priced parts are the ones that are more likely to have problems if they do come up. I'd just suggest buying the best quality you can afford, and use the better reputation companies. I see some companies suggested here and there as making good guns or parts, but also see some of them mentioned with a number of problems, and some more experienced or hard users tend to avoid some simply to reduce the chances of problems (some of them see multiples of certain brand guns choke in high volume classes etc). Once an outfit establishes themselves, they don't always maintain that level of quality unfortunately.

If I've misinformed anyone, please add correct information, anyone that has experience building quantities of guns or have used them hard and has further hands on input. I know we've got a number of guys that are pretty up to speed on the AR type guns.
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Re: Made my decision on what to do about a truck "rifle"

Post by Sixgun »

You guys over analyze. I carry a big bore revolver and consider it well done. :D ----6
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Re: Made my decision on what to do about a truck "rifle"

Post by Panzercat »

You probably already considered it, but think about an AK pistol. Will probably cost less by the time you're done, has a larger round and loses less out of a short barrel, which is important versus 5.56 velocity/cativation results. Get a nice railed drako or underfolder AK w/16in barrel that actually can be fired folded and without that obnoxious buffer tube. Bonus to cheap, plentiful ammo. once I get my wife over the sticker shock of the AR I just got done purchasing (which is fine as a full up rifle), this is my plan for vehical carry.

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Re: Made my decision on what to do about a truck "rifle"

Post by AJMD429 »

Sixgun wrote:You guys over analyze. I carry a big bore revolver and consider it well done. :D ----6
Over-analyzing is half the fun... :D

The guys who carry a 1911 with a dozen or so spare magazines ready to go are also set up pretty well, especially if they are practiced at shots out to 100 yards or so.

Regardless, whatever you have with you all the time, and whatever you shoot a lot, will be a darned good start when it comes to a 'truck' gun.

Overall, I think THIS would be the coolest setup, actually...
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Re: Made my decision on what to do about a truck "rifle"

Post by MrMurphy »

Nah, the Humvee makes for a more stable gun platform, and it's harder to fall out of. :)


Call me biased, but I spent six months, nearly every day, up in the turret, and a good chunk of 3 years in and around one..... :)
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Re: Made my decision on what to do about a truck "rifle"

Post by OldWin »

Now I feel all inadequate and self conscience. :oops:

I just keep a 94 carbine 30-30 in my truck.
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rjohns94
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Re: Made my decision on what to do about a truck "rifle"

Post by rjohns94 »

Going back to my original threads, I can't carry a rifle loaded in my truck in Pennsylvania. Hence the rifle caliber pistol build.
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Re: Made my decision on what to do about a truck "rifle"

Post by OldWin »

rjohns94 wrote:Going back to my original threads, I can't carry a rifle loaded in my truck in Pennsylvania. Hence the rifle caliber pistol build.

Gotcha. Good point.


I don't keep my rifle loaded. I know it's slower than sticking in a magazine but I live in a pretty quiet area and always have a handgun on me.
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Re: Made my decision on what to do about a truck "rifle"

Post by Grizz »

rjohns94 wrote:Going back to my original threads, I can't carry a rifle loaded in my truck in Pennsylvania. Hence the rifle caliber pistol build.
that's why I bought this:

https://www.primaryarms.com/Radical_Fir ... tol556.htm

there's a slight glitch with the one they sent and so Grizz gets to interface with "customer service". I'll let you know how that works out.

the reason I bought this is it's cheap and I learn with my hands, and it doesn't matter how much I read and study the thing, I don't actually learn nothin until my hands get ahold of the thing. it's just how I am.

I put a trs-25 3m dot sight on the rail. bore sighted it on a mooring buoy. it lined up perfect. I put a really cheap el cheapo red laser in front of that. will replace it with a green one eventually. that will be the indoor and parking lot choice I think.

Took the quad rail off and am looking around for a smooth cylindrical grip. I took the stabilizer brace off because, for one, my frame is so altered that I cannot get a sight picture with the pistol strapped to my arm. and for the other, it does occupy a bit of room in the car that makes it less handy. I know Doc has a solution for that, but I am not at that decision point yet.

I've read a lot more about the ammo and the ballistics, and for the car purposes a 7" or 8" barrel would be handier, although I can get it around in the car and cover everything I can see. but I think it would make it less useful as a hunting gun. Although I don't know why, I've made meat with a 4" revolver.

The only alternative I can see is an uzi, or an ak pistol, which are handier because there is no buffer tube.

I went with 300BLK because, well, I'm wired to buy into it. It checks all my idiosyncratic boxes. With the 10" barrel I am confident it will be a good deer slash pig gun. And good anti-isis medicine.

And because the 556 upper I'm collecting parts for will swap on and give me that good old 800 yard plinker everyone seems to want. Can't get there with the ak pistol.

I'm not a 300 partisan. It's a small bore and I'm not a fan until the round count goes statistical. It is a reloaders sweet thing and I plan to cast for it eventually when I learn enough to pick the "right" bullet weight.

So Mike, I expect you won't pick the cheapest thing around, but it's a useful schematic template. The ar15 forum is full of pistol builds and pictures, and youtube is as well. There is a surplus of data points. And lots of partisans. :lol:

Grizz
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Re: Made my decision on what to do about a truck "rifle"

Post by rjohns94 »

That's a great Buy Grizz. I went out today looking and trying inc different platforms. I put two guns on consignment so that I can afford this next step.
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Re: Made my decision on what to do about a truck "rifle"

Post by AJMD429 »

rjohns94 wrote:That's a great Buy Grizz. I went out today looking and trying inc different platforms. I put two guns on consignment so that I can afford this next step.
Lucky for me I had almost all the parts from other trades; the Spike's Tactical pistol tube/buffer/spring, and the CMMG barrel and gas tube were the only parts I actually needed. Had the adjustable gas block, and upper and lower and parts to populate them. Later on, after a couple other trades, I got the Sig Arm Brace, but that wasn't really all that vital in terms of overall usefulness.
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Re: Made my decision on what to do about a truck "rifle"

Post by Grizz »

Mike,

the ak pistols are cheap now and they have a lot going for them. that would conceal under a raincoat or in bib coveralls.

https://www.preppergunshop.com/index.ph ... zines.html

that one has the hinged dust cover and a rear sight mounted on it. it is not lightweight, but it is very compact. I don't know what the barrel length does to the ballistics of ak ammo. it is also made in 556, but I think that's not so great from the shorty.
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Re: Made my decision on what to do about a truck "rifle"

Post by rjohns94 »

Streetstar wrote:Your specs sound a lot like my last AR pistol build - (minus the Aimpoint and flashlight)

I used a long Spikes pistol buffer tube - it uses a standard carbine buffer and does not have the issues pistol length buffers sometimes have --- it runs just like a standard M4. --- As for upper and lower receivers, - just pick your poison - they are all mostly the same

My barrel was 1/7" twist , and of all places, was made by Mossberg -- it was not chrome plated and had a heavy machine gun barrel profile - even under the handguard (which is a yankee hill if i remember correctly )

--- not sure if that would be the right barrel for you, - but i had it on hand, it worked and was accurate enough ---- the bolt carrier group was M16 stuff --- i just liked the idea of the heavier bolt in a pistol like this

As for the trigger assembly -- i just used a standard off the shelf Rock River lower parts kit --- these and the commonly available DPMS lower parts kits yield good results for a "combat grade" trigger pull
couple the heavy barrel with the free float tube - and this "pistol" was as accurate as any other non target spec AR i have shot --- i mounted a standard rifle scope to it at one time to check it out with 68 grain match ammo and it was hovering around .75" to 1" off a good sandbag rest , - and 2-3" groups with cheap XM193 ball type ammo (55 grain)

I think that is a Viking single point sling i have mounted up as well --- works well with a sling like that

This is one of the ones i probably should have kept , -- but oh well - i didnt - :lol: -- the assembled rifle/ er....pistol was much better than the sum of its parts would lead most to believe

I have a forward grip mounted on mine --- just keep in mind that that is a big no-no unless the pistol meets some OAL requirements (this one did) -- any shorter than this (and off the top of my head , i forgot the exact number ) - and a pistol grip on the fore end is bad news , but Magpul makes a "work around" type of forward grip doo-hicky that works also

Image
Excellent set up. Thanks for the write up. It's just what I'm going for in mine. With the sig brace added, it would be perfect. I was thinking the carbine length buffer tube so your suggestion of the spikes tube works towards that idea. As to the forward grip, was going to use the Hand brace by magpul to keep my fingers away from the muzzle. Don't want to add to the snag on stuff factor in the event this is being pulled from a back pack Thanks again
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Re: Made my decision on what to do about a truck "rifle"

Post by Old Savage »

I have a lob wedge and a driver and everything in between. I carry the 58 degree in both 8 and 12 degree bounce and for he winter I replaced the 3,4 and 5 irons with hybrids, two of which have senior shafts. I have regular and stiff shafts on 5 woods. I also have a Coleman cart heater.
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Re: Made my decision on what to do about a truck "rifle"

Post by rjohns94 »

Old Savage wrote:I have a lob wedge and a driver and everything in between. I carry the 58 degree in both 8 and 12 degree bounce and for he winter I replaced the 3,4 and 5 irons with hybrids, two of which have senior shafts. I have regular and stiff shafts on 5 woods. I also have a Coleman cart heater.

Good For you, for self defense do you use a high tee or low tee? Is your preferred ammo of choice Titlelist? Do you use a range bag or tournament bag?
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Re: Made my decision on what to do about a truck "rifle"

Post by Streetstar »

rjohns94 wrote:
Old Savage wrote:I have a lob wedge and a driver and everything in between. I carry the 58 degree in both 8 and 12 degree bounce and for he winter I replaced the 3,4 and 5 irons with hybrids, two of which have senior shafts. I have regular and stiff shafts on 5 woods. I also have a Coleman cart heater.
Do you use a range bag or tournament bag?
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Re: Made my decision on what to do about a truck "rifle"

Post by Trailboss »

I ended up using a Sig556 pistol to make mine. I like it a lot.

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Re: Made my decision on what to do about a truck "rifle"

Post by rjohns94 »

Sweet
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Re: Made my decision on what to do about a truck "rifle"

Post by Jay Bird »

After doing tons of reading, Im going with a Noveske 300 blk out w/10.5 inch barrel. I have a thing for Noveske like my fathers thing for Winchester(maybe not that bad). LOL ....My lower is complete with sig brace and Geissele trigger. Saving money for the upper at 1400ish, not a biggie because waiting 6month for the can that will go with it. :mrgreen:
http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac59 ... 167F5C.jpg
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