Another lever tactical rifle link

[Canuck Bob]

Hope this isn't a duplicate.

http://blog.suarezinternational.com/201 ... rifle.html

I have mixed feelings about this topic but find myself drawn to the discussion. I'm a sportsman not a gun fighter and think of levers as the best sporting gun I know.

[7.62 Precision]

Since the 1860s, leverguns have been used by militaries and law enforcement and have been one of the best self-defense weapons around.

In military use, 1860 Henrys were used by the Union army in the US Civil War (not much by the Confederacy, even if captured, due to ammo).

Military scouts often used lever-actions during the indian wars.

Winchester 1894s were used by US, French, Belgian, and I believe Canadian militaries at times.

Winchester 1876s were used by Canada for coastal defense.

1895 Winchesters were used by Russia, Finland, and the US as late as WWII and just into the Cold War.

I have probably missed a few military uses.

Thousands of leverguns from the Henry to the '95 Winchester have been used by law enforcement, prison guards, transportation company guards, etc., and in rural areas, you can still find 94 Winchesters riding in patrol cars today.

Up here, it is not uncommon to find a .45-70 lever gun in the hands of village police officers who deal with bears in town from time to time.

So the idea of a lever gun as a self-defense weapon is not new. In fact, the first successful lever gun was designed and first used as military technology, and in the early days of leverguns, most people would have considered the lever gun better for a fighting role than for a hunting role, which was better covered by the heavier caliber single-shots.

[7.62 Precision]

At least he uses the lever gun in a decent configuration and does not try to stick M4 stocks and rails all over it. He even uses leather.

[Griff]

Yep, even pistol caliber lever carbines can be effective w/proper ammo selection! And the 1892/1894 platforms are even more compact!

[MrMurphy]

The Royal Navy issued '92s for boarding parties and shore parties during WW1 in limited numbers to free up Lee-Enfields for infantry work. They weren't so popular among the seamen used to 600+ yard capable bolt actions, but they did the job.


Suarez knows of what he speaks. He got in trouble about 10 years back and lost his badge, but for the most part, he still talks sense. He's far from the first to note what he did (Cooper called the Marlin the Manhattan Assault Rifle or something along those lines). Ashley Emerson took a 24" 336 to a Thunder Ranch Urban Rifle course (dominated by ARs) and aside from having to reload every spare 1/4 second he had, he apparently kept up pretty well.

[Blaine]

For around the house, I keep a tube-full of 180 HPs in my .44 mag 1894......."I pity da fool" (said in my best Mr. T voice). It's not my go-to, but I like having it there.

[Canuck Bob]

At least he uses the lever gun in a decent configuration and does not try to stick M4 stocks and rails all over it. He even uses leather.

The 94 was issued to the Pacific coast Rangers militia in Canada during WW2. My bucket list includes one but they are treasured here.

I think the above quote is what makes them a desirable urban self defence gun. Here ARs are restricted and AKs are prohibited. Auto rifle mags must be limited to 5 rounds period. A full tube 92 is the highest capacity rifle one can own, bolts are restricted to 10 rounds so the many Lee Enfield farm guns remained legal. A lever is a sportsman gun and widely accepted as one.

His build in the article is an outstanding deer rifle build common on here.

[MrMurphy]

A friend in Australia is similarly limited from modern weaponry due to stupid laws.

He has a 336 and 1894 Marlin (.357) with XS sights, slings, and butt cuffs, as well as a rail added for a light.

It's not his old issued F88, but it can get the job done.

[7.62 Precision]

The 94 was issued to the Pacific coast Rangers militia in Canada during WW2. My bucket list includes one but they are treasured here.

There was an 1895 Winchester carbine with US government markings and almost devoid of any finish sitting at a gun store here for $725 for almost a year. I kept looking at it, and my wife wanted to buy it for me, but it was right after I had gotten injured, and we were generally hovering just above starving, so I didn't. I was curous about the markings, because they were different than I had seen. Eventually it was gone one day, about the time I realized it was one of the few '95s issued to the Alaska Territorial Guard during WWII into the Cold War (Arctic Scouts).

Been kicking myself ever since.

[Panzercat]

30-30 is way underrated. People rave about how the 300blk can make 700 to 1000y shots, but fail to realize that 30-30 has about the same ballistic properties in a heavier bullet. Could make the same argument for 7.62x39 but that's another topic entirely. In any case, it's not just grandpa's dear slayer.

[AJMD429]

At least he uses the lever gun in a decent configuration and does not try to stick M4 stocks and rails all over it. He even uses leather.

Yep. I just like one little rail for a light, needs to be no bigger than a 'pistol rail' like on BlaineG's Glock. Could be molded right into the forend cap on a Marlin 1894 (44 Mag version). For my Rossi 'Night Scout' rifle, I just used some J-B Weld to affix a Contender pistol scope base to the magazine tube for when I want a light on it. With the Burris Fastfire-II and the LaserMax pulsing pistol laser, the thing may not look 'tactical', but it can hit a silver dollar at 50 yards in pitch-black conditions, shooting 38 specials out of a 20" barrel, which isn't noisy and no blinding flash.


Link to 'Night Scout' thread

[Old Ironsights]

The governor of Ohio (IIRC) around the end of the Civil War wanted Henry's banned for the same reason that modern Pols want EBRs banned...

[7.62 Precision]

The governor of Ohio (IIRC) around the end of the Civil War wanted Henry's banned for the same reason that modern Pols want EBRs banned...

Which did not happen, and that is why we have so many mass murders with Henry rifles today.

[AJMD429]

The governor of Ohio (IIRC) around the end of the Civil War wanted Henry's banned for the same reason that modern Pols want EBRs banned...

Which did not happen, and that is why we have so many mass murders with Henry rifles today.

Love it.

[Canuck Bob]

The governor of Ohio (IIRC) around the end of the Civil War wanted Henry's banned for the same reason that modern Pols want EBRs banned...

Which did not happen, and that is why we have so many mass murders with Henry rifles today.

Love it.

My favorite is that here a flintlock pistol has the same restrictions as a Glock. Toronto must have a real problem with drive by flintlock gun fights!

[MrMurphy]

What about run-by fruitings?

[7.62 Precision]

My favorite is that here a flintlock pistol has the same restrictions as a Glock. Toronto must have a real problem with drive by flintlock gun fights!

What are they thinking down there?

Even in LA they don't need to restrict flintlocks. It is a well known fact that no gangsta has yet successfully fired a flintlock pistol in a drive by.

When da brotha' hode da pistol sideway, all da primin' powder fall out.

[superchicken]

My favorite is that here a flintlock pistol has the same restrictions as a Glock. Toronto must have a real problem with drive by flintlock gun fights!

What are they thinking down there?

Even in LA they don't need to restrict flintlocks. It is a well known fact that no gangsta has yet successfully fired a flintlock pistol in a drive by.

When da brotha' hode da pistol sideway, all da primin' powder fall out.

Ah, but it depends on which way da brotha hodes da pistol. Hode to da right, prolly not go boom. Hode to da left, maybe go boom.

[7.62 Precision]

Yeah, but they still don't look right in a rap video.

[AJMD429]

30-30 is way underrated. People rave about how the 300blk can make 700 to 1000y shots, but fail to realize that 30-30 has about the same ballistic properties in a heavier bullet. Could make the same argument for 7.62x39 but that's another topic entirely. In any case, it's not just grandpa's dear slayer.

The only major difference is that most 30-30 barrels only impart about 60-65% as much RPM to the bullet for a given velocity. So, for subsonics like the 300 Blk 'specializes' in, the 1:7 twist barrels are mandatory if you're using heavy-for-caliber bullets. However, using heavy bullets without subsonic limitations in the bigger-cased (and thus higher velocity potential) 30-30, or more modest weight ones subsonically, you are right - the 30-30 is very competitive.

The other 300 Blk advantage would be the ability to have a six-pack of loaded 30-round detachable box magazines at hand, and a semiauto rate of fire if/when needed. Or a (sort of) compact pistol formatted version.



However, Grandpa's 30-30 will likely function reliably with pretty much any cartridge you can stuff in the chamber, whereas the 300 Blk may or may not like a given ammunition loading.

Best bet - have both...

[Canuck Bob]

Hey Doc, you missed one important difference. My buddies never see me carrying something like that.

[Old Ironsights]

Yeah, but they still don't look right in a rap video.

Old School Gangbanger...


How about:


Non NFA... 12ga... what's not to love?

Or maybe:

[1894c]

seen this before...but I really like the concept... :)

[Canuck Bob]

My favorite is that here a flintlock pistol has the same restrictions as a Glock. Toronto must have a real problem with drive by flintlock gun fights!

What are they thinking down there?

Even in LA they don't need to restrict flintlocks. It is a well known fact that no gangsta has yet successfully fired a flintlock pistol in a drive by.

When da brotha' hode da pistol sideway, all da primin' powder fall out.

The insane world I live in! We just had a court challenge that says all airguns are firearms and therefore subject to the gun laws. It is now a question of possibly breaking the law when we shoot the Daisy BB rifle in our garage because kids can't get a PAL!!!! Insane!!!! It was the law that low power air guns were not restricted much like the UK.

My flintlock rifle is now suspect because it is not considered a controlled firearm under the legislation.

[BrentD]

Canuck Bob,
I guess it has been a few years now, but I carried a flintlock in CA to hunt moose, and it wasn't even a firearm. The border guys wanted me to fill out paperwork and pay $50 but after I explained that flintlocks don't count, they called Ottawa and found out I was right. The percussion boys had to pay $50 and do the paper, but not me.

perhaps things have changed.

[Poohgyrr]

Didn't Gabe do a similar article a few years ago, using a Marlin 45-70? Levers are pretty flexible in regards to the loads we can use, so most any caliber can work.

A good Lever is not a bad thing to have around and can easily be used in teaching gun responsibility, handling, safety, etc... to our kids.

[Canuck Bob]

Canuck Bob,
I guess it has been a few years now, but I carried a flintlock in CA to hunt moose, and it wasn't even a firearm. The border guys wanted me to fill out paperwork and pay $50 but after I explained that flintlocks don't count, they called Ottawa and found out I was right. The percussion boys had to pay $50 and do the paper, but not me.

perhaps things have changed.

Brent, as far as I know it is still officially that way. However the repercussions of a recent court case may cause unexpected changes. I bought a .54 lefty Deer Stalker flintlcock from the US and had it mailed to me with no problem. Those days may end.