An interesting trend--

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:49 am

An interesting trend-- I've noticed that we have had a number of AR-15 (EBR) posts/treads on this forum lately. Makes me wonder if the current direction (mid-term elections aside) of this administration, the apparent ideological/political split in the country, the lousy economy, and the general angst that seems to have overshadowed us has caused many of us to acquire an AR-15.

I for one was never interested in the AR platform, but recently put one together, for no other reason than owing one has brought about a certain "peace of mind"...we do live in interesting times... :(

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:05 am

1892 wrote:An interesting trend-- I've noticed that we have had a number of AR-15 (EBR) posts/treads on this forum lately. Makes me wonder if the current direction (mid-term elections aside) of this administration, the apparent ideological/political split in the country, the lousy economy, and the general angst that seems to have overshadowed us has caused many of us to acquire an AR-15.

I for one was never interested in the AR platform, but recently put one together, for no other reason than owing one has brought about a certain "peace of mind"...we do live in interesting times...

((((Ding Ding Ding)))) We have a winner!

mikld · Post by **mikld** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:56 am

The big rush to AR types was at it's height just after the last election. It has actually slowed some in the last few months, and mebbe those that rushed out and bought one are just now having questions about them...

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:05 am

mikld wrote:The big rush to AR types was at it's height just after the last election. It has actually slowed some in the last few months, and mebbe those that rushed out and bought one are just now having questions about them...

Maybe those of us who did not panic are seeing some great deals...

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:41 am

add me to that list, it might have something to do with the price point being around a quarter of what it was in the height of saturday night fever. at least the scot gene thinks so.

but thanks to the washington state stupid voters, our household will have one for each member, those who reside here and those scattered about the country, so we won't have to loan out our own particular serial number. thanks stupic washington state voters.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:10 pm

.223...The ObamaCare of rifle ammo..

crs · Post by **crs** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:20 pm

1892,
For more "peace of mind" and to add some excitement to your day, try adding a suppressor to you AR and let us know how much it increases the pleasure of shooting.

PS The .223 rifle suppressor will really muffle a .22 pistol.
PPS It also fits right on the new Mossberg MVP Patrol .223 or so I hear.

765x53 · Post by **765x53** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:07 pm

I believe the real attraction of the AR is all of the cool and unnecessary baubles that can be hung on them.
Like little girls dressing their Barbie dolls.

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 3:35 pm

I never had a thought to owning one until my grandson in Texas, Scrateshooter built one for me and brought it up here to Arkansas. After a couple trips to the range I decided they were kinda fun. It has some high dollar parts in it and a solid butt stock with iron sights that I asked for. With my 76 year old eyes I can hit just fine with it.
I told him if things happen like it might that I would still most likely grab a 94 30wcf first, he laughed said he figured I would.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 4:28 pm

Being an Army small arms repaiman stationed in Germany during the VN action,
All the AR`s were sent to VN so we did not get to play with them and all I knew about them for years is what came back from the war. That feedback did not make me want to own one and most of the guys figured the army would dump them after the VN conflict was over. Instead they sorted out and sprayed them for bugs and ended up with a good little rifle. The light weight ammo was just great for the spray and pray modern warfare methods also, 200,000 shots fired per enemy casualty is an estimate that sticks in my mind.

Well 50+ years later I own two of them and have changed my mind 180 degrees on this fun little gun. I still cant find the platform on either of my guns. It must be a place to set your beer on or maybe the can of CLP.

Panzercat · Post by **Panzercat** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:03 pm

A shread of my thought process-- I've wanted one for a bit, but the current state of affairs have bumped it up a notch higher on the priority list. It wasn't enough to get me to pay the panic premium, but it's a minor priority now that things have settled back down. My gut tells me that the current administration is an increasingly impotent threat on this front, but that won't stop it from capitalizing on the next big news story. Likewise, the moment hillary throws down, all bets are off. She's as rabid anti-gun, if not more so than what we have now. I'd rather have something in hand before she offically puts her hat into the ring and an AR will be the first thing to go if any of the above scenarios gain traction.

I wouldn't call it panic buying... But may be label it cautious pessemism.

Tycer wrote:Maybe those of us who did not panic are seeing some great deals...

Pretty much this.

ollogger · Post by **ollogger** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:43 pm

I wish the price of a mini 14 would come down as much as the EBR has, if it hits the fan
I will grab a pair of 94s & go, but it would kill me to know what I left behind

ollogger

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:16 pm

crs wrote:1892,
For more "peace of mind" and to add some excitement to your day, try adding a suppressor to you AR and let us know how much it increases the pleasure of shooting.
PS The .223 rifle suppressor will really muffle a .22 pistol.
PPS It also fits right on the new Mossberg MVP Patrol .223 or so I hear.

...AND Ruger Mk3/45 pistol, AND Ruger Charger and/or 10/22 if you get one with a threaded barrel. Savage bolt action too...

If you shoot lots of rimfire though may want to get take-apart can to clean wax/lead/powder fouling out. Full house 223 (not subsonic) is tough on take apart cans though. Lots of choices. I keep a Trek on my 223 AR, and use a 357 caliber Mystic for everything else.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:16 pm

< danged double-post (love that satellite internet) >

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:39 pm

We can look to a lot of circumstantial things that seem to be reasons for the increase in AR-15 popularity, and some of these factors really did increase the rate of sales at times, but the truth is, this trend is an natural and expected trend.

Way back in our history, most frontier families had a good flintlock. So did our soldiers. Soon, our soldiers had caplocks, and civilians immediately saw the advantage and followed suit. Throughout the Civil War (and just before) great advances were made in rifle actions. The military used the Sharps, the Spencer, the Henry, and a number of other breach loading rifles.

After the Civil War, most civilians still had muzzle loaders, but returning soldiers who had fought with, fought beside, or fought against these better weapons saw the advantages, and soon civilians across the country were using surplus and new single-shot breech-loaders, and lever-action rifles.

As lever-actions improved from the original military-issue Henrys, they became the premier sporting, law enforcement, and self-defense rifles up into the 20th century (and continuing strong today). There was little civilian interest in a bolt rifle in the 1800s in the US. But soon soldiers who used Krags in Cuba and the Philippines, followed by 1903 and 1917 rifle-toting soldiers returning from the war in France were very impressed with the bolt action, and Winchester began producing civilian bolt action rifles patterned after the new military standard while surplus Krags also flooded the market.

Throughout our history, changes in civilian firearms have followed military developments. The exception to the rule is the semi-auto rifle, which has been popular with hunters since the beginning of the 20th Century, but did not see serious military use until the 1940s. From WWII on, we have continually issued semi auto or select-fire rifles to our military. The M16 and M4 family of weapons are the longest serving rifles/carbines in the history of the US military, and the 5.56 is now the longest serving cartridge, eclipsing the .45-70.

To put this into perspective, imagine if the Sharps rifle and carbine, designed in the 1850s and serving in the Civil War in the 1860s with its paper cartridges, was the standard issue rifle and carbine in the beginning of WWI, still using the same cartridges.

This is basically the same time scale that the M16 and M4 have covered. It is no wonder then, that as with all previous types of military firearms, the semi-auto rifle, particularly the AR-15, has become America's new sporting rifle.

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:45 pm

By the way, the AR is a platform.

When speaking of certain weapons, they are called a platform if a number of configurations can be built on the same base weapon.

So the AR, and especially the M16, which was a variant based on the AR, has been a platform on which the following are only some of the systems built:

Infantry rifle
Carbine
Grenadier's rifle/grenade launcher
Designated Marksman Rifle
Sniper Rifle
Firing Port Weapon
Various competition rifles
Varmint hunting rifles
Big game hunting rifles
Rimfire rifles
Patrol rifles
Shotguns
Pistols

- and all in a multitude of calibers.

BrentD · Post by **BrentD** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:02 pm

I have trouble calling a Sharps 1874, much less a Marlin 1893 a "platform" but if it works for you, it's okay by me

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:39 pm

BrentD wrote:I have trouble calling a Sharps 1874, much less a Marlin 1893 a "platform" but if it works for you, it's okay by me

Its a platform , the same way a T/C Contender or Encore is a platform --- basically, you could take one pelican case with a T/C Encore or Contender frame, along with 5 carefully selected barrels and maybe 2 or 3 different sighting systems --- and be ready for whatever the world throws at you ---- I would consider an Encore as being more versatile as an AR in terms of caliber selection, but then again, it is a single shot ---- its cool that you could feasibly tote around everything from a .22 to an '06 to a 12 gauge shotgun and a muzzleloader for the same basic package though

The AR is much the same way ---- as the same pelican case could easilly house an AR lower, plus .223, 6.5, and .450 or .50 uppers ---- i wish the .30 AR had gotten traction , but it took a dedicated bolt head

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:48 pm

Streetstar wrote: ---- its cool that you could feasibly tote around everything from a .22 to an '06 to a 12 gauge shotgun and a muzzleloader for the same basic package though

Sounds logical....until you add scopes on every barrel...

been there

I now have three complete Encores....kinda goes against the concept, huh? But, an addict is an addict.

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:50 am

Chuck 100 yd wrote:Being an Army small arms repaiman stationed in Germany during the VN action,
All the AR`s were sent to VN so we did not get to play with them and all I knew about them for years is what came back from the war. That feedback did not make me want to own one and most of the guys figured the army would dump them after the VN conflict was over. Instead they sorted out and sprayed them for bugs and ended up with a good little rifle. The light weight ammo was just great for the spray and pray modern warfare methods also, 200,000 shots fired per enemy casualty is an estimate that sticks in my mind.

Well 50+ years later I own two of them and have changed my mind 180 degrees on this fun little gun. I still cant find the platform on either of my guns. It must be a place to set your beer on or maybe the can of CLP. :?

Chuck 100 yd -- that comment just made my day...been reading way to much AR stuff. I promise never to use the word "platform" again when talking about firearms (except I really do like the Browning designed 1892 platform for pistol cartridges)... :)

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:58 am

they really are out there, and our nation really is polarized.
What has polarized us is urban vs. rural, something our founding fathers designed our republic to prevent.
But that has been chipped away for 100 years, and we've reached the point that the urbanites will openly state that the Bill of Rights is antiquated. They preach big brother, saving us from all our misguided choices - you know, freedoms - in everything from confiscation of firearms to the food we can eat.

I was more than a bit creeped out by the movie Maleficent. My daughter picked it on ppv this weekend. It was a tale of modern morality - make that amorality.
The lessons were: there is no true love between men and women, there is no difference between good and evil, and authority is the enemy - of course that last trend is so entrenched in movies since 1970 we don't even notice it any more.
Then we watched Death Proof - I think Quentin Tarantino does a better job of morality plays these days than any other Hollywood director - his cops are all good people, and the bad guys always get their just desserts.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:27 am

vancelw wrote:[regarding the Encore] Sounds logical....until you add scopes on every barrel... been there

I now have three complete Encores....kinda goes against the concept, huh? But, an addict is an addict.

Same here - it kills me that my son is selling his Encore; I want it for my 'second receiver' so I can at least leave one set up 'dedicated' to a single cartridge. . .

I guess taking out that pin is just too much work to make it into another configuration...

1894cfan · Post by **1894cfan** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:47 pm

Anybody here remember the scene in "We Were Soldiers" when Hal Moore told SgtMaj Plummly(sp?) to he better get a M16, and Plummly told him that when the time came there would be plenty laying on the ground? I think he ended up going with a 1911A1.

Me? I'm going with an M1 Carbine!

bluesman423 · Post by **bluesman423** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:52 pm

I love shooting ARs in several calibers ........... MIGHT even own one or even two.

However, if I had to take a rifle into combat I would much prefer a M1A or FAL ............. maybe even an AR10 variant but I have not tried those yet.

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:59 pm

bluesman423 wrote: However, if I had to take a rifle into combat I would much prefer a M1A or FAL ............. maybe even an AR10 variant but I have not tried those yet.

Why?

bluesman423 · Post by **bluesman423** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:18 pm

I was afraid this would happen with my comment so I will post one more time and then nothing more .................

I have seen, first hand, the shortcomings of M855 and M193 ammo against human targets and, especially the inability of those rounds to shoot through even unhardened cover while I also have seen the 7.62 X 51 do a much better job in both situations

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:58 pm

Ah, I was sondering if you had specific roles in mind (Sniper or DM, for instance), or if you were speaking of combat in the sense of going to war with the US military, on in the sense of maybe defending a community from civil unrest or worse.

Ammo selection is something that has hindered the 5.56 as a combat cartridge from the beginning, though we are much better off today, the M855 is still not the best choice that could be made.

The 5.56 is a great cartridge with a lot of flexibility, and very effective in a lot of ways. I have nothing against its use as a combat cartridge (although I used Mk 262 Mod 0 in combat, not M855, usually). It is ideal for self-defense and for most uses in law enforcement.

However, in choosing such a small diameter cartridge, you also choose limitations that have to be considered. For the 5.56, you are limiting potential for barrier or armor penetration and potential for long-range effectiveness. 5.56 was the first cartridge that I ever used in which the range at which I could effectively hit was higher than the range at which I could effectively kill. So now, to best deal with these limitations, you have to make the right ammo choices. The Black Hills TSX loads are great barrier penetrating loads for the 5.56, while expanding well in human targets. The Mk 262 fragments at low velocities and extends the effective range against human or animal targets. AP loads give barrier penetration, etc.

But a heavier, larger diameter bullet can do several of these things better without requiring an often impractical change of ammunition, especially if it is a cartridge designed to be very efficient in short barrels, like the 6.5 Grendel. If you jump up to a 6.5mm or 7mm, the potential for flexibility in the cartridges effectiveness increases substantially. These are the calibers that the really sharp guys who design military cartridges have always preferred for well over a 100 years, but tradition is hard to break. With a 6.5mm, 7mm or .30 caliber like the .308, your long-range precision cartridge still does pretty good at close range or through a barrier. You can have a standard combat cartridge that still does pretty good at long range - and at least kills what it hits. Load specialization is still an advantage, but not as critical.

If I were in combat with the US Army, in one type of unit or another, I would be and always was comfortable with the use of 5.56 carbines and rifles, complimented with .308 sniper or DM rifles, 40mm grenade launchers, and 7.62x51 mm and .50 BMG machine guns, as well as Mk19s, possibly armor and air assets, indirect fire assets, etc.

In a law enforcement role, or home defense, I think the 5.56 is the way to go with the right choice of ammo.

For a village police officer or village public safety officer, who may have to deal with drunk kids one day and an aggressive bear the next, 5.56 might not e my first choice.

But if I were, say, a federal agent tasked with confiscating firearms from the populace, the guy who would really scare me would be the old guy on the side of the mountain with his scoped .308. I can take a team up there and catch him, but every one of those guys will likely cost a couple officers or more He does to have to shoot fast or a lot, just a few times effectively.

Panzercat · Post by **Panzercat** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:35 pm

7.62 Precision wrote:However, in choosing such a small diameter cartridge, you also choose limitations that have to be considered.

...Which is what pained me about going all in on a 5.56 platform for the longest time. I like mass. I trust mass. It's why I carry the 11.43×23 as a sidearm. 5.56 uses velocity trickery and witchcraft to do its job, of which I am inherantly distrustful of. If there hadn't been such a push to improve the round, I wouldn't have chosen it at all. If I couldn't just slap another upper in a more potent caliber, I wouldn't touch it. It's why I've decided not to buy into the AR pistol craze-- You lose a ton of the 5.56's most important gimmick out of a short barrel. I was really close to getting an AK pistol.

But the cartrige has made decent strides. Hollowpoints are still my friends. And if all else fails, I can chuck the upper to the side and roll with 300blk or something similar.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:11 pm

scary stuff. especially because I might be that guy if I got pushed into that corner. I trust the brainiacs who decide to tyrannize the citizenry will have air assets available and the night vision video graphic will be rushed to u2ube to intimidate the other resister. your side will "win" without a scratch.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:21 pm

Panzercat wrote:
7.62 Precision wrote: But the cartrige has made decent strides. Hollowpoints are still my friends. And if all else fails, I can chuck the upper to the side and roll with 300blk or something similar.

But please check out the ballistics on .224 hollowpoints in general --- many of them are made to expand very rapidly - (ie, varmint loads, or even match loads - as the hollow tip disrupts airflow enough to fly a tad bit better ) --- but a lot of the hollowpoints leave shallow, scary looking , but survivable wounds for larger game

there may be some out there constructed to hold up for more serious sporting or social use , however

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:22 pm

You are right - there are only a few bullets that I know enough about to trust for larger game, and then for specific uses. Keep in mind that the .223 is heavily used up here to hunt everything from seals to moose, and sometimes a bear or two.

I have shot soft-point .223 bullets into a little wallaby without an exit wound. Hit one in the spine right above the shoulders, and bullet fragments broke one of the femurs and wrecked the meat in that leg. I am convinced that a lot of bullets in this caliber are put to the wrong use.

The Sierra 77 gr (or 69 gr, if you have a 1/9 twist) open tip match bullet is a great long range bullet and fragments well even at low velocities. In most cases, it is fragmentation that is required to kill quickly with 5.56. The 77 gr Sierra will fragment even at extended ranges and makes a good self-defense bullet as well as deer or caribou hunting bullet.

The Barnes 62 gr TSX (or 55 gr, if you have a slower twist) is a very deep penetrator and expands very reliably. With deep penetration, it averages 100% weight retention, and average expansion is to .45". Even through a car door, expansion is very consistent, and penetration is still deep. This is what I would use for any role that required barrier penetration, or for hunting animals like moose, or (not very confident

) defense against a bear. Velocity required for expansion limits range.

Panzercat · Post by **Panzercat** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:42 am

Streetstar wrote:
Panzercat wrote:
7.62 Precision wrote: But the cartrige has made decent strides. Hollowpoints are still my friends. And if all else fails, I can chuck the upper to the side and roll with 300blk or something similar.

But please check out the ballistics on .224 hollowpoints in general --- many of them are made to expand very rapidly - (ie, varmint loads, or even match loads - as the hollow tip disrupts airflow enough to fly a tad bit better ) --- but a lot of the hollowpoints leave shallow, scary looking , but survivable wounds for larger game

there may be some out there constructed to hold up for more serious sporting or social use , however

No worries. I hadn't planned on hunting bears... Or wallabies

Certainly not with 556. I'm sure somebody has those skills, but that's a leverguns job for the most part.

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:47 am

Panzercat wrote: No worries. I hadn't planned on hunting bears... Certainly not with 556.

The quicker a bear stops moving after he is shot, the more comfortable I am.

A bear + 5.56 makes me only slightly more comfortable than a bear + a hatchet.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:01 pm

saw a video of the 556 steel penetrator putting a hole through a 1/4" steel plate. a quarter inch plate isn't that great a barrier, but I suspect it would stop a 30-30 round. For comparison, the 99F puts a 150gr sp .308 clean thru a free hanging 1/2" thick stainless plate. I don't think the 556 will get there.

I came back from Waldos with some turkish delights, 556 nato 62gr fmj.... brass cased with copper gilded steel jacket. 30 rounds for ten bucks. ten bucks per magazine. sounds cheap compared to some of the stuff I see.

I don't have anything that will fire the tiny little buggers, but I may, someday. It's my commodity investment scheme. Buy low, sell to those who don't.

The 556 looks RIDICULOUS next to the 45/70 525gr PileDriver or the 405gr 44 mag revolver load. But, it's what's for sale.

another beautiful day in walaland

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:47 pm

The 223 is a good cartridge from pests to biggame it can get it done, is it my pick for a battle rifle round no, but I will say if you want to see horrific damage to the human body find some pics of a 55 fmc that was fired out of a 1-14 twist barrel. Ive never heard anyone say they wish they had a 223 in a firefight, even when fired from a 1-12 twist barrel the 55 fmc couldnt punch straight thru jungle foliage to a target. Is it a good round for LE, sportsman or homeowner why yes I use it in a predator rifle. Is the AR rifle good for LE, sportsman or the homeowner sure. Just the view from my saddle. danny

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:10 pm

If a fella wants something to go have fun blowing through hundreds of rounds on the weekend, and you are of average means: Go .223

If you want something that has unquestionable superiority to the .223 on a shot by shot basis, get the .308, and you can have whatever "platform" you want....

This morning I saw some Federal American Eagle 150 FMJ for $375 shipped free if you bought 500. Not near as cheap as .223 practice fodder. It depends on what you want for SD/Hunting performance.

http://www.targetsportsusa.com/federal- ... -1205.aspx

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:07 pm

well, I think a picture is in order:

PB182186cs.JPG

Left to right, my Alaska loadout, 45/70/525 departing at 1425fps, or so.
And 44/405 departing at 950fps or so. Kind to deers, brutal to bears.

And of course, in the right hand corner 7.62 NATO and 5.56 NATO.

It takes 9 rounds of 55gr 556 to equal the throw weight of the one 45,
or 57 rounds to equal one rifle full.

It takes 44 rounds of 556 to equal the throw weight of one cylinder full of 405s.

Neither of the cast bullets can penetrate the steel plate that the M80 sails through.
I could take the 762 in the bear woods, but only because there are 21 on tap.
I would feel as nakedly stupid in the bear woods with the 556 as I used to did
with the Winchester 1892 25/20. That was just plain stupid scary.
I don't trust my hearing or my reflexes

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:32 pm

I have an acquaintance who hunted and killed a bear with a 5.7mm.

When he described how he felt when he got out of the boat and walked through the woods, realizing that there were a number of bears all around him and he was armed with a 5.7, I think I know exactly what he was feeling - the same feeling I have felt when I was close to bears armed with nothing.

When it comes to bear, a hammer beats a needle any day.

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:51 pm

we had a OIS (officer involved shooting) last week, without getting into allot of details, the AR and the 62gr. ammo we carry ended the hostilities quickly, shots were fired at 80+ yards... :(

superchicken · Post by **superchicken** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:10 pm

In most cases, it is fragmentation that is required to kill quickly with 5.56.

This is exactly why I dont want one for a hunting rifle.

Panzercat · Post by **Panzercat** » Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:33 am

You all suck for a person with caliber indecision disorder. Just saying. Because I'm about to fall back on my old strategy-- price the upper way higher than I bought it and if somebody does, me and 556 were never meant to be. I'm sure it cativates and stuff like that... Inside a very narrow velocity window from what I am reading. Velocity sorcery and witchcraft. After that window it becomes just a speedy .22

Can anybody talk me into keeping a 556 upper?

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:19 am

Sure, it is a great caliber. Works well for anti-personnel, and is used for hunting up here with great success on caribou, deer, and even used moose.

With the right ammo, which we can easily get today, and a 20" barrel, it is an effective killer on men out to 800 meters. A shorter barrel will drop that range a bit. With the same ammo, I would not hesitate to shoot deer and caribou out to 600m. It is not expensive to shoot. It has very light recoil - great for kids. With TSX bullets, you can shoot through car doors and windshields and get great performance on game (perfect for the deer in the old Lincoln doing drive-bys on your house).

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:27 am

7.62 Precision wrote:(perfect for the deer in the old Lincoln doing drive-bys on your house).

20 years ago I had an employee who's daughter evidently turned down the wrong 'deer', who proceeded to drive by her house every few weeks and shoot it full of holes. Their family had lots of police and military friends and the fourth driveby was terminated by a few of them who happened to be on the way home from hunting, and had evidently forgotten their house keys, so had fallen asleep on the porch, under a van, and behind a boat. They were using AR's & Mini-14's in 223.

They didn't kill the deer (they were trying not to), but they disabled his vehicle and handed him over to the 'game warden'...

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:30 am

Panzercat wrote:You all suck for a person with caliber indecision disorder. Just saying. Because I'm about to fall back on my old strategy-- price the upper way higher than I bought it and if somebody does, me and 556 were never meant to be. I'm sure it cativates and stuff like that... Inside a very narrow velocity window from what I am reading. Velocity sorcery and witchcraft. After that window it becomes just a speedy .22

Can anybody talk me into keeping a 556 upper?

In addition to the more serious stuff 762 alluded to, i will add that they are fun to shoot, -- ammo cost can be reasonably cheap so its easier to stockpile some -- also really easy to get brass for reloading purposes (just go to your local blm range first thing monday morning and i pick up all i want a lot of days)
Great "bump in the night" gun as its really easy to mount a flashlight to a rail (just keep some electronic muffs hung around the forend, they are loud indoors)

I also share Hobie's sentiment that, being the current American service rifle, we all should have one or two, even though they don't have as warm a spot in my heart as a nice levergun

BrentD · Post by **BrentD** » Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:39 am

Streetstar wrote:I also share Hobie's sentiment that, being the current American service rifle, we all should have one or two, even though they don't have as warm a spot in my heart as a nice levergun

While I don't own one, I have long thought it would reasonable if every 18 yr old was gifted one by the federal govt with a case of ammo to go with it on his or her birthday.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:16 am

BrentD wrote:
Streetstar wrote:I also share Hobie's sentiment that, being the current American service rifle, we all should have one or two, even though they don't have as warm a spot in my heart as a nice levergun
While I don't own one, I have long thought it would reasonable if every 18 yr old was gifted one by the federal govt with a case of ammo to go with it on his or her birthday.

Good idea. Maybe tell 'em they get a better model if they get good grades in school - that would have motivated me for sure...!!!

BrentD · Post by **BrentD** » Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:25 am

AJMD429 wrote:
BrentD wrote:
Streetstar wrote:I also share Hobie's sentiment that, being the current American service rifle, we all should have one or two, even though they don't have as warm a spot in my heart as a nice levergun
While I don't own one, I have long thought it would reasonable if every 18 yr old was gifted one by the federal govt with a case of ammo to go with it on his or her birthday.
Good idea. Maybe tell 'em they get a better model if they get good grades in school - that would have motivated me for sure...!!!

I was just thinking of whatever was standard GI issue at the time.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:16 am

BrentD wrote:
AJMD429 wrote:
BrentD wrote:
Streetstar wrote:I also share Hobie's sentiment that, being the current American service rifle, we all should have one or two, even though they don't have as warm a spot in my heart as a nice levergun
While I don't own one, I have long thought it would reasonable if every 18 yr old was gifted one by the federal govt with a case of ammo to go with it on his or her birthday.
Good idea. Maybe tell 'em they get a better model if they get good grades in school - that would have motivated me for sure...!!!
I was just thinking of whatever was standard GI issue at the time.

Is it Switzerland, Sweden or Finland that has a national rifle program? - One country does (or did) - but i thought it was letting their citizens keep their service rifle after their mandatory military duty tour

Panzercat · Post by **Panzercat** » Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:06 pm

AJMD429 wrote:
BrentD wrote:
Streetstar wrote:I also share Hobie's sentiment that, being the current American service rifle, we all should have one or two, even though they don't have as warm a spot in my heart as a nice levergun
While I don't own one, I have long thought it would reasonable if every 18 yr old was gifted one by the federal govt with a case of ammo to go with it on his or her birthday.
Good idea. Maybe tell 'em they get a better model if they get good grades in school - that would have motivated me for sure...!!!

That would be an interesting social experiment. I'd be interested in the upward trend of good grades versus the impact on violent crime

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:23 pm

BrentD wrote:
Streetstar wrote:I also share Hobie's sentiment that, being the current American service rifle, we all should have one or two, even though they don't have as warm a spot in my heart as a nice levergun
While I don't own one, I have long thought it would reasonable if every 18 yr old was gifted one by the federal govt with a case of ammo to go with it on his or her birthday.

that would be so if the CMP was more active than the heterophobic transgender anti-God squad, and held school children to high standards of morality and marksmanship. then that grad gift would have substantive meaning for sure.