Choosing a CCW weapon ...

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:45 pm

Many of us have a CCW permit and go through a lot of decision making processes when we choose our guns.

Well, I do not have a CCW permit, and I do not like bottom feeding jam-a-matics unless they are full sized 1911a1s. I completely despise the European slide mounted safeties. They are not user friendly to me. So, an auto is out of the question.

What then is my choice of a CCW weapon? When the day comes I escape Illynoise this is my weapon of choice:

Joe w 38.JPG

This is me in about 56 or 57 holding mom's Chief Special. She's in the back ground, dad took the pic.
At the time she was a Meter Maid for the Farmington, NM PD and had the complete uniform. Dress, cap (I'm wearing it.) and hand bag. She carried the Chief in the bag. She told me years later when I found the picture that she didn't even know how to use it at first. She eventually had one range trip with it. Sadly she didn't keep it.

So an old(er) Chief Special is my CCW choice.

Joe

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:54 pm

We must think alike - for me, a Charter Arms Bulldog 44 Special with Crimson Trace grips is hard to beat. Occasionally a Para Ordnance 1911 takes the position, but only if there is a perceived higher-risk than average that I'd be dealing with several threats at once. Hopefully I won't ever find out either choice is bad (or for that matter, hopefully I won't ever need to find out either choice was good, either).

Anyway, the Bulldog (IMHO) is just a slightly fatter Chief's Special with better front-lockup, and makes slightly bigger holes but uses a nice low-velocity, ear-sparing, round.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:20 pm

AJ,

I handled and shot a Charter Arms back in the early 80s. It was JUNK, no question about that. That soured me on Charter Arms guns for ever I'm afraid.

About the only other small DA I'd take is a Colt Dick Special. I had one of those and it was one sweet revolver. Had to sell it though, not enough self control. Sigh ....

Seriously I like the 44 Special idea, but not in a C.A. made gun. Nor a Taurus neither. Can you see I'm a bit prejudice?

Joe

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:02 pm

Joe, the J frame Smiths are good concealed carry guns, though give up some to modern self loaders, depending on how one carries, and what. A K frame Smith or a D frame Colt are also viable, but the Colts are more expensive and harder to keep running at this point in time. Parts aren't available from what I understand. The Smith J's are very good, but not perfect. They can have problems, like any other mechanical device. They do wear, and can get out of time. Parts can break, etc. Its just real life. Very good, but not perfect. No gun is, realistically.

Your comments about self loaders are a bit dated. Not meaning to sound critical, but the world has changed over time, and the typical self loaders of today are head and shoulders above some available in the past in several regards. If you wont consider one, OK, be straightforward about it. But with many of the guns available today, if you want to have an honest discussion about real life use of them, most of the old arguments against self loaders don't stand up. Reading some of the test logs some have done*, as well as guys that have used them extensively in Law Enforcement, the newer generations of guns are generally stunningly reliable in some pretty nasty conditions.

I like revolvers, but for serious concealed carry self defense beyond a pocket gun, for the size, number of rounds available, and overall carryability, I've opened my mind up and seen a new way of looking at things.

*This was an interesting read, and seemingly not uncommon results. Over 71,000 rds accounted for, with details of each cleaning interval etc, at one point going over 15,000 rds between cleaning.

http://pistol-training.com/archives/6885

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:13 pm

J Miller wrote:Seriously I like the 44 Special idea, but not in a C.A. made gun. Nor a Taurus neither.

Well, you could always get a Ruger Speed-Six, and have it modified into a 5-shot 44 Special. I've seen a few done that way. NOTHING of that size/type is as solid, but they are not light weight.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:57 pm

Joe,
The jeans rolled up at the bottom....cool..I remember those days as a small child....Now I'm just a big child.----6

walks with gun · Post by **walks with gun** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:27 pm

I've had a couple Charter Arms guns years ago and found them to be good light carry guns, I really miss my bulldog I had back in the late 80's, Pitchy and I each had one and found they really shot with Winchester silvertips. I got dumb and traded it for something prettier. Also like the little Ruger sp101 in 357.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:34 pm

walks with gun wrote:..Also like the little Ruger sp101 in 357.

That's my "GP" gun, though my "EDC" is still an NAA Guardian .32ACP.

The fun thing about Wheel Guns is if you know how to index them blind, you can carry anywhere from 2 to 5 different loads in the same gun.

I generally carry a .38 Snake Shot on first index followed by 4 180gr loads in my SP101.

Another fun thing is being able to share with a Derringer or some such, and, in my case, if I'm carrying all Heavies in my SP, then I'll have a handy .38 derringer loaded with Snake Shot just to even the odds with winged or legless critters...

4t5 · Post by **4t5** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:45 pm

How about the new model 69 Smith and Wesson, it's a L frame 5 shot, sorta like the old 696 44 spec., except this can take mags. also.

BrianSH · Post by **BrianSH** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:40 pm

Joe, an airweight J Frame is great. Step number one is to get a copy of Ed Lovett's book "The Snubby Revolver". I read my copy about once a year. Lots of good training and awareness info inside.

Lots of good info at "GrantCunningham.com" about the modern combat rollover. The West wasn't won with a jammed up gun!
- Brian

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:02 am

If you refuse to advance your thinking beyond 1952, the Ruger LCR is about as good a wheelgun as you'll get.

You'd just better HOPE you get the guys (or guys) with five rounds. I've known several people who no longer carry Chief's Specials because they've been in real situations where there were multiple assailants. Having seen more than once guys soak up multiple center mass hits even from good hollowpoints and keep coming....a Chief will 'get it done' in some situations, and certainly beats no gun at all, but it's far from perfect.

As to 'jam-a-matics'.....Glocks routinely fire 5-10,000 rounds in a single session without cleaning in tests. I know of no revolver (speaking as a guy who grew up on K-frames) which can match that performance. For that matter, the Army agreed on that back in 1911 when the 1911 fired 6,000 rounds without failures and all the wheelguns broke.

Any of the better modern autos can usually run several thousand rounds without a hiccup.

I carry a S&W Shield in 9mm, because it's the size of a PPk, in 9mm, and 8 shots of 9mm with a 1.5 second reload and multiple spare magazines beats five .38's and a 3-4 seconds reload if you're lucky (and not Jerry Miculek) every single time.

I can also headshot a target at 20 yards unsupported with one.....which I can't do with a Chief's Special (or an LCR)......even after probably 5-10,000 rounds of .38 through revolvers over nearly 20 years.

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:29 am

BrianSH wrote:The West wasn't won with a jammed up gun!

Actually, if you read historical accounts, jammed and broken revolvers were pretty common on the frontier. Revolvers saw rough use and over time could get pretty broken down. Ammo quality was not always so good.

But a cap 'n ball revolver sure beat a single-shot muzzle-loading pistol, and a cartridge revolver eventually beat a cap and ball revolver, and a semi-auto eventually beat a revolver, but not always.

As far as jam-o-matics, there are a number of semi-auto designs that I trust as much as any revolver. The correctly-built 1911s are not still in use after over 100 years because they jam all the time - they are in use because they are trustworthy pistols. Glocks may be ugly and blocky, but when they are running (and so long as they are not Gen4) they go bang when you pull the trigger, or at least Kaboom (kidding, of course!). When using empty cartridge casings to cause jams in training courses, I know of several pistol models that will feed the empties every time. In order to cause a jam, the cases have to be loaded backwards or be smashed before loading.

Revolvers are not free from problems, and when they do have problems they are generally pretty serious. The super light magnums everyone like to carry fishing recoil so much that heavy bullets can jump crimp and jam the cylinder. Parts wear and suddenly and unexpectedly the thing doesn't work. They are harder to disassemble and clean properly than most good semi-autos.

A friend just sent his .44 Mag revolver back to the manufacturer for repair when it began to jam between chambers. He carries this thing for bear protection.

I am not saying that you should not carry a revolver - I believe that you should carry what you like, shoot well, have found to be reliable and of good quality, and fits your needs, whatever that may be. I am saying that there are advantages to carrying semi-autos for most people, and the idea that semi-autos jam all the time and revolvers are always reliable is way overblown.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:04 am

I started w/a 1911, then had to carry a mdl 10 S&W w/6-rnd strips, moved to a mdl 19 & speed-i-loaders, finally getting a mdl 65-4. W/speed-loaders it wasn't so bad, since 7 round mags were about the only thing available in 1911s, losing just one round per change wasn't as big a deal. But... I ALWAYS carried a 1911 off-duty and when duty use allowed. A Combat Commander is just so much more comfortable for carry, especially concealed or under-cover than a wheelgun.

Birdman · Post by **Birdman** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:29 am

Joe, you could stay in Illinois and get you're CCW here. I can sure understand you wanting to leave Illinois and I plan to myself after retirement but until you do get your CCW. As for what to carry, I have my J frame with me right now. It's the same old discussion about bottom feeders, hi cap mags, 5 shot revolvers or 500 magnums. Pick yur poison but make sure it's comfortable enough to be with you AT ALL TIMES.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:34 am

I did not intend for this to be an auto vs revolver discourse. That is so old as to be boring. I intended to show what my choice is for a CCW revolver.

Perhaps I worded my comments about autos wrong, but I've been shooting a long time and simply do not like most autos other than the 1911a1s and Rugers old 22 Auto. Those I can deal with.
Glocks, and other plastic framed guns will NEVER find a place in my holster no matter how good they might be. I've shot them, I find them uncomfortable in the hand. And autos like the Beretta 92 with the slide mounted safety are difficult for me to use.

So, no matter how you auto fans put it, for the purpose of this thread, "MY CCW choice" autos are out. For general carry I've got no problem with a 1911a1.

The possibility of multiple assailants argument is valid sometimes, but not something I'm worried about.
If I get to the point I have to have a CCW that will hold 20 rounds in the mag and then carry 2 or 3 extras for reloads, I'll stay home. Or move the hell out of there.

Now, as for getting a CCW here in IL, that is very doubtful. Considering our very limited income, they are cost prohibitive. Made that way deliberately by the communists in the legislature as well as the idiot governor.
And where I intend to relocate too one does not need to beg the govt for permission to CCW.

OK, so I still want a Chief.

Of course they wear. Everything does, even the great god Glock wears and breaks.

Those of you that like your bottom feeding jam-a-matics are welcome to them. I'll stick with my wheel guns and we'll both be happy.

Joe

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:27 am

If I had to pick an all the time wheelgun.... it'd be a 3 inch 66. With a 642 for when even that is too big. If you're only interested in wheelguns those two are among the best of their type for hideout work. Just remember at least one reload... fights are what they are not what you plan in advance.

As a buddy off duty walking his dog found out when confronted by three muggers with five rounds of .38 and one speed strip on hand... If the third guy hadn't run he'd have been down to a pocketknife.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:59 am

I like my wheelguns and carry my Det Special often --- same capacity as my Sig 238 or a Glock 42 380 .

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:46 pm

J Miller wrote: Perhaps I worded my comments about autos wrong, but I've been shooting a long time and simply do not like most autos . . .

And you don't have to. My dad carries DA revolvers, and he can shoot them. He shot a goose out of the sky with a short .38 SPC S&W once. It wasn't a lucky shot - he knew he could do it.

J Miller wrote:Glocks, and other plastic framed guns will NEVER find a place in my holster no matter how good they might be. I've shot them, I find them uncomfortable in the hand. And autos like the Beretta 92 with the slide mounted safety are difficult for me to use

If it isn't comfortable for you, you won't shoot it well. I won't carry anything with a slide-mounted safety.

J Miller wrote:Of course they wear. Everything does, even the great god Glock wears and breaks.

NO! Impossible! Glocks CAN'T break! And they NEVER jam! Except for the time BOTH rear frame rails broke off of mine while I was shooting it. And the time I had to HAMMER a student's Glock apart on the range with a live round in the chamber. All things mechanical have the potential to fail.

And when Glock stamped out the little sheet-metal frame rails . . .
Wait, there is so much wrong with that last sentence!

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:32 pm

Mine is a 642 in 38+P. I am and always have been a revolver guy. I like 1911s but I will always have a revolver. It's my choice always.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:30 pm

I shot and carried revolvers for many years, starting in my school daze when I bought a webley with paper route dinero... I fed my family with a revolver in Alaska, among other choices.

But when I moved from the wild and wooley national forest to the wild and wooley mean streets I got a sinking feeling carrying a wheel gun when I read the daily 911 logs. The invader class works in multiple numbers and often carry shotguns thru the front door hole, or on the street when they steal your car with your wife and kids inside.

Self, I said, it is not wise to be the first one to run out of ammo. Thus I started seriously learning about the automatic cartridge pistolas. I discovered that I can have a little black number in one boot or the other, or both, with 14 rounds ready to go, and another inside my belt with more of the same. For me it's about the numbers. I don't want to run dry prematurely.

And finally, compared to the little black numbers, revolvers are painful to pack in a boot or jambed into the hippy joint, er, hip joint.

Lastly, if revolvers were the solution, John Browning would have made them.

Grizz

walks with gun · Post by **walks with gun** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:47 pm

I'm pretty much a revolver guy, but I carry a 1911 the biggest share of the time, sometimes just a Beretta .25. The auto's are just so flat and easy to carry, so is a extra mag or two.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:00 pm

7.62 Precision wrote:When using empty cartridge casings to cause jams in training courses, I know of several pistol models that will feed the empties every time. In order to cause a jam, the cases have to be loaded backwards or be smashed before loading.

Might be better to start another thread if you respond, but I'd be interested in more details about that topic, and if any of those 'empty-case-feeders' were 1911's...

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:43 pm

my choice for every day carry[edc]. .357, nice grips.

s&w640.jpg

M. M. Wright · Post by **M. M. Wright** » Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:47 am

My choice for most of the time is the Colt Cobra. Just a Dick Special with an aluminum frame for lighter weight. I bobbed the hammer and added a Tyler T grip adapter. I feed it with 125 grain XTPs over a stiff charge of 2400. Practice is with mild 38 loads saving the good stuff for social occasions. Much of the time it rides in an ankle holster or just a pocket holster. I do carry a speed loader too for "just in case".

firefuzz · Post by **firefuzz** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:56 am

pokey wrote:my choice for every day carry[edc]. .357, nice grips.

s&w640.jpg

I've got one of these, fine little CCW revolver, that my wifey promptly laid claim to as her CCW revolver. Recoil was a little stiff for her using my standard 125gr load so I dropped the bullet weight down to 110gr and she has no problem.

She thought I was going to be quite upset by her latching onto this gun as I carried it quite a bit in the summer when we were dating. Little did she know that was the perfect excuse for me buying a VERY slick, old model S&W 3" 65-2 I had been drooling over at one of the local pawn shops. I don't think the gun has had 50 rounds down the tube and I know no one has ever been inside of it. I did put a set of the same grips on it and am in the process of smoothing the action up now. It's not as compact or lightweight as the 640, but it has one more shot and uses the same speed loaders as my model 19.

I have no real problem with someone wanting to carry a wheel gun as a CCW weapon. My only advice is to become proficient reloading both with speed loaders and loose ammo. I was told once during a revolver only class I was teaching that I was "mean" during reloading drills. Compared to my instructor I'm a kitty cat. Reloading should be practiced one-handed, standing, kneeling and lying on your back, side, and stomach. It's a considerably harder with a wheel gun than with an auto-loader. My wife's still carrying her Glock 19 for this very reason.

Rob

Ray · Post by **Ray** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:22 am

Deleted.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:40 am

Ray,

You got it. Thank you.

The only self loading pistol I own is a mid 50s vintage Ruger .22 Auto.
All my HD guns are revolvers. I do not feel vulnerable or under gunned in the least with them.

Joe

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:43 am

AJMD429 wrote:
7.62 Precision wrote:When using empty cartridge casings to cause jams in training courses, I know of several pistol models that will feed the empties every time. In order to cause a jam, the cases have to be loaded backwards or be smashed before loading.
Might be better to start another thread if you respond, but I'd be interested in more details about that topic, and if any of those 'empty-case-feeders' were 1911's...

AJ,

In my case, yes it was a 1911a1. Or actually a 1930s vintage Colt Government Model that was moderately modified by myself and a local gun smith. It would feed empty cases from the magazines all day long and NEVER jammed or failed to extract / eject. I'd still have it, but some low life stole it.

Joe

walks with gun · Post by **walks with gun** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:52 am

I guess since I live in a pretty rural area, A CCW should still be accurate enough to be fun. That same gun under your shirt should take gophers, skunks, knock the head of a grouse and keep critters from eating the pets and livestock. I guess it's all where you live, that same work gun goes to town with me as well, although sometimes there's a real deep concealment gun if I'm working at the local watering hole.

Washita · Post by **Washita** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:11 am

[quote="Malamute"]... Your comments about self loaders are a bit dated. Not meaning to sound critical, but the world has changed over time, and the typical self loaders of today are head and shoulders above some available in the past in several regards. If you wont consider one, OK, be straightforward about it. But with many of the guns available today, if you want to have an honest discussion about real life use of them, most of the old arguments against self loaders don't stand up. Reading some of the test logs some have done*, as well as guys that have used them extensively in Law Enforcement, the newer generations of guns are generally stunningly reliable in some pretty nasty conditions...

Well put. When I read "jam-o-matic" I felt as if I'd stepped back in time about 40 years. If semi-autos are so unreliable, why do you suppose that every army in the world and all (or virtually all) police forces, to, have long since adopted them?

Washita · Post by **Washita** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:11 am

[quote="Malamute"]... Your comments about self loaders are a bit dated. Not meaning to sound critical, but the world has changed over time, and the typical self loaders of today are head and shoulders above some available in the past in several regards. If you wont consider one, OK, be straightforward about it. But with many of the guns available today, if you want to have an honest discussion about real life use of them, most of the old arguments against self loaders don't stand up. Reading some of the test logs some have done*, as well as guys that have used them extensively in Law Enforcement, the newer generations of guns are generally stunningly reliable in some pretty nasty conditions...

Well put. When I read "jam-o-matic" I felt as if I'd stepped back in time about 40 years. If semi-autos are so unreliable, why do you suppose that every army in the world and all (or virtually all) police forces, to, have long since adopted them?

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:35 pm

Some of you guys don't get it at all.
Ray got it, maybe you should re-read his comment.

"Bottom Feeding Jam-A-Matic" is a nick name. You know like "Wheel Gun" for a revolver. "Thumb Buster" or "Plow Handle" for a single action revolver. Geeze you guys are no fun at all.

As for what or why the military does, why should I care? I'm not and never have been in the military.
I'm a pure blood American civilian. I like revolvers, and lever guns. Re-read my OP and don't take it so literally.

Joe

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:50 pm

From Sixgun here: { viewtopic.php?f=1&t=59980 }

Sixgun wrote:<snip>

On a serious note, it will be a million to one that you are even ever in a gunfight and twenty million to one that the bad guy will have a vest on. As a civilian, some things in life are not worth thinking about.-----6

THIS ^^^^

Joe

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:45 am

J Miller wrote: As for what or why the military does, why should I care? I'm not and never have been in the military.
I'm a pure blood American civilian. I like revolvers, and lever guns. Re-read my OP and don't take it so literally.

It's pure-blood American civilians that have won almost every war we have fought. They dressed like soldiers, and used the guns they were given, for only as long as it took. And lots of them brought with them the shooting skills they learned on their flintlocks, lever actions, single-shots, or revolvers.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:37 am

I suppose you're right, but I am not now nor have I ever been any form of military. I be an old crotchety civilian. This thread was about my choice as a civilian CCW. If I thought I'd need an M9 or equivalent as a carry gun I'd stay home.

Joe

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:57 am

I know what you were saying, but sometimes people try to make old crotchety civilians who have never been in any form of the military feel that their opinions or skills are not as valid as those of people in the military. I know of a lot of people who have never been in the military that I would not want to be in a fight with, nor would I want them stalking me through the woods.

I notice a dangerous trend right now in that people are viewing military and law enforcement as a separate class from ordinary citizens.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:02 pm

7.62 Precision wrote: I notice a dangerous trend right now in that people are viewing military and law enforcement as a separate class from ordinary citizens.

Have noticed that myself --- a tad vexing

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:21 pm

Well for what its worth, the Colt Single Action Army revolver was military, and pretty darned good. The side swing Smith & Wessons were also intended to interest the military, and they used them. Just sayin.

I wouldn't necessarily discount something because it was, or was not used by military.

Was just reading on another forum about a guy in his own house. 3 guys broke in and assaulted him, he managed to hit at least two of them seriously and send the 3rd fleeing. Don't know any more details. Just being at home isn't always safe either. Having more rounds in the gun isn't about trying to be Rambo, just evening up the odds, and making reloading less of an issue. I'm not crazy about ugly modern plastic guns, but certainly see the utility of them, and they shoot better than I expected. I still get to use my Ruger SA's and Smiths, but keep a plastic gun around also. It hardly hurts at all any more.

I understand about what one likes or not, I'm pretty stuck on certain things myself. My comments were just meant to encourage you to be a little more open minded about the more modern guns when talking down and dirty defensive tools. If you don't want one under any circumstances, that's OK too.

If I ever need a defensive arm, I want the most advantage I can get on my side. I can deal with the ugly part when thinking in those terms.

Tactical Lever · Post by **Tactical Lever** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:51 pm

Streetstar wrote:
7.62 Precision wrote: I notice a dangerous trend right now in that people are viewing military and law enforcement as a separate class from ordinary citizens.
Have noticed that myself --- a tad vexing

X 3!

Always wanted a Rossi double action stainless steel in .44 Spl. 5 shot with a 3" bbl. Always struck me as a real good balance for almost every situation that I could manage to be in. Sadly, that shipped has sailed for me. At least legally. For some reason, criminals don't seem to have any problem getting stuff like this. Hopefully we can reverse that someday.

Anyone have one?

Tactical Lever · Post by **Tactical Lever** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:57 pm

Like this, except I like wood grips.

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss20 ... 702dea.jpg

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:44 pm

J Miller wrote: When the day comes I escape Illynoise this is my weapon of choice:

Joe

https://ccl4illinois.com/ccw/Public/Faq.aspx

Can't blame you for wanting to escape, but if I understand correctly, Illinois now has a CCH permit. Check out the link!

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:58 pm

Streetstar wrote:
7.62 Precision wrote: I notice a dangerous trend right now in that people are viewing military and law enforcement as a separate class from ordinary citizens.
Have noticed that myself --- a tad vexing

Especially when it is the Government Employee that is the one holding that opinion...

(i.e., CCW/OC applies only to LE... and they get all flustered when someone decides that a "no weapons zone" includes THEM as well as the hoi-palloi... - until it all turns out that THEY get the exemption that WE don't... which is OK by THEM.)

Neumann · Post by **Neumann** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:04 am

My EDC is a SIG P220 Carry, .45 ACP. It is not a "jam-o-matic". Compared to a revolver, it is easy to conceal and easy to shoot well. It is more than enough for any two-legged predator. It has twice the power of .38 SPL and less felt recoil. For something pocket-sized, a Springfield XDs, also .45 ACP, works just fine. That little pistol works with everything I've tried, including FMJ, Hornady XTPs and Speer Gold Dots.

I occasionally carry a revolver, particularly when waking in bear country, or sometimes, just because I can. I'm not fond of lightweight revolvers that hurt my hand with .38 SPL widowmakers. I want a handgun heavy enough that I can shoot full strength .357 Magnum. I find that a 3" Smith 686+ meets that need, yet is relatively easy to conceal in an IWB holster. West of the Mississippi, I might choose a 3" 629 .44 Magnum. Yes, the .44 stings a bit, but I can send 50 rounds downrange and still call it fun. Perhaps my hand loses some feeling after the first 6.

J-frames are just too small for my hand, and I have small hands. If I put a decent sized grip on a J-frame, it's no more concealable than a full-sized 686 (L-frame), and a lot less fun to shoot.

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:05 am

I have EDC/BUG a Glock 27/26 in my uniform front pocket for the last nine years...I have used J-Frames, Ruger LCR's & SP-101, and recently tried a Ruger LCP (auto)...in the end the Gen4 Glock 26, with it's high-capacity, is my choice for CCW. I also want to wade in and say that the recent production of Charter Arms revolvers are not junk, may not be as slick as a S&W, but will work... :)

JB · Post by JB » Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:39 pm

7.62 Precision wrote:I know what you were saying, but sometimes people try to make old crotchety civilians who have never been in any form of the military feel that their opinions or skills are not as valid as those of people in the military. I know of a lot of people who have never been in the military that I would not want to be in a fight with, nor would I want them stalking me through the woods.

I notice a dangerous trend right now in that people are viewing military and law enforcement as a separate class from ordinary citizens.

I also know some that have been in the military but have very little firearm knowledge and can't hit the side of a barn at the target range.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:23 pm

Joe, you need to be less wishy washy and tell us what you like and don't like in a handgun.

The Colt 1911 Series 70 Mk IV .45 ACP is STILL my choice for the best overall concealed weapon for a number of reasons which include:
1.) Flatter than most handuns, including revolvers
2.) Reliable, rugged steel action and parts
3.) No matter which ammo you use, it makes a big hole and hurts on the receiving end
4.) Accurate and easy to acquire target (Large rear peep for my ol' eyes, Crimson Trace grip laser)
5.) Great balance between hitting power and recoil for fast recovery
6.) Easy to field strip and keep clean
7.) Safeties - plenty, and reliable - no goofy trigger thingy to get jammed with shirt or twig
8.) Maintenance, repairs - a gunsmith's dream
9.) Low pressure ammo; you can still hear after first shot with unprotected ears
10.) Many terrific "basic" clones if you can't afford the Colt, e.g. Remington, ParaOrdnance, etc.
11.) Lasts forever with standard ammo and use, including barrel
12.) Pull one out and, like a shotgun - the fight is likely over
...and since some folks don't like the next number in sequence
Finally.) Reloads are awfully quick if you carry a spare magazine or two. Flatter than cylindrical speed loaders.

The holster is a home modification; an IWB type with strap cut off and elk skin sewed on the back (wear's side) of the holster to keep the hammer from biting into my kidneys when seated. It also prevents sweat from contacting the piece in really hot weather; something that happened before when even my t-shirt was damp in the Southeastern U.S. climate.

I see that finally, these last few years, some holster makers have gotten a clue and offered this same modification for some inside holsters. Maybe somebody saw my earlier posting of this homemade holster (with the aid of a shoe repair shop's leather sewing machine).

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:24 pm

JB wrote:
7.62 Precision wrote:I know what you were saying, but sometimes people try to make old crotchety civilians who have never been in any form of the military feel that their opinions or skills are not as valid as those of people in the military. I know of a lot of people who have never been in the military that I would not want to be in a fight with, nor would I want them stalking me through the woods.

I notice a dangerous trend right now in that people are viewing military and law enforcement as a separate class from ordinary citizens.
I also know some that have been in the military but have very little firearm knowledge and can't hit the side of a barn at the target range.

And yet they think they are operators . . .

piller · Post by **piller** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:44 pm

As far as what you choose for CCW, it isn't the gun, it is the person behind it who matters. If the gun is reliable, then the person behind it is what makes it safe or dangerous. I don't carry a revolver for concealed carry simply due to the fact that I don't want to. If Joe wants to, then I hope he makes the move to the State that he wants to live in, gets into a better financial situation, and gets the revolver that he wants.

Tactical Lever · Post by **Tactical Lever** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:44 am

piller wrote:As far as what you choose for CCW, it isn't the gun, it is the person behind it who matters. If the gun is reliable, then the person behind it is what makes it safe or dangerous. I don't carry a revolver for concealed carry simply due to the fact that I don't want to. If Joe wants to, then I hope he makes the move to the State that he wants to live in, gets into a better financial situation, and gets the revolver that he wants.

I forget which gangster is was, but he was notoriously hard to kill. Didn't have too much to do with the gun, as it was a small .25 ACP. But he had it in his pocket all the time.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:22 am

7.62 Precision wrote:
JB wrote:
7.62 Precision wrote:I know what you were saying, but sometimes people try to make old crotchety civilians who have never been in any form of the military feel that their opinions or skills are not as valid as those of people in the military. I know of a lot of people who have never been in the military that I would not want to be in a fight with, nor would I want them stalking me through the woods.

I notice a dangerous trend right now in that people are viewing military and law enforcement as a separate class from ordinary citizens.
I also know some that have been in the military but have very little firearm knowledge and can't hit the side of a barn at the target range.
And yet they think they are operators . . .

I get a kick out of the guys running around in 5.11 pants everywhere they go with Danners, molon labe t shirts and Delta wannabe beards. Really subtle - plus the magpul decals on the jeep tell me which vehicle to break into while they are high fiving each other somewhere !