Adventures in Leverevolution for the 30-30

[bonusmarple]

I am fairly new to reloading. 30-30 is my first rifle cartridge. I did some research on the net and bought a few powders to try with the speer 170 grain. I purchased Leverevolution, 3031, H4895, 4064, BL-C2, and 748. I decided to start with leverevolution.

The gun is a Winchester 94 24" rifle made in 2014. With factory ammo, the best I did with the scope at 100 yards was about 2" groups. Using that as a baseline, I loaded up a few different levels of leverevolution and headed to the range.

The first trip showed that 35.5 grains gave a 1.8" 3-shot group and 36.3 gave a 2.5" group. However that 2.5" group had the first two shots less than 1 inch apart. Also, I had 1 round that would not feed completely in the chamber such that gun could not go fully into battery. I did not notice this when I was cycling the lever but I couldn't disengage the grip safety. Upon inspection, the gun was not fully in battery and I could not force it in, so I ejected the round and went on with the rest of the shooting.

Using the bullet comparator, I noticed these rounds have the ogive further forward than factory. I decided to seat back about 5 thousand from 2.550 to 2.545. I also loaded 9 each of the 35.5 and 36.3 to shoot head to head to figure out the accuracy of both. Lastly I would chrono the rounds.

So today, I headed to the range with the chrono and my 18 rounds of ammo. After shooting 4 rounds of factory Winchester as foulers I went to shoot the 6 3-shot groups. The first 3-shot group with 35.5 chrono'd at 2385 fps and shot a 0.9" group. The first 2 shots of this group formed 1 ragged hole at 100 yards. The 36.3 groups about 2.5" at best and chrono'd at 2430 fps. The second group of 35.5 opened up to about 1.5". I found 2 rounds that had the same inability to go into battery.

All in all, the leverevolution is good stuff. I have no idea of the accuracy of the chrono, it showed the 150 grain Winchester power point at 2400 - 2430 so it is not crazy off, maybe reading about 30 fps high. So with that in mind, it looks like the 35.5 grain of LVR is pushing a 170 grain Speer to about 2350 fps and averaging about 1.5" for my shooting ability in this gun. There was no sticky extraction but there was some feeding issues I will get to below.

First, I will say that I am very impressed. This loading is a noticeable improvement over factory. Both in accuracy and fps. Don't see much reason to play with the other powders but luckily I have other rifles to load those powders in so they won't go to waste.

I still need to track down why some of these rounds don't chamber properly. I am going to load up a dummy round with a relieved neck just to get an idea of how much distance I have to the rifling. But given the bullets have no marks from the rifling, my guess is that the sizing of the brass isn't quite right. The first 10 rounds I put through this rifle when I got it all had sticky extraction. All were Remington factory ammo. My guess is I didn't do a good enough job with the sizing and this combined with a tight chamber on the gun is giving me issues. Probably just need to turn the sizing die in another 1/8th of a turn and I will be good. But in the meantime I will measure the distance to the rifling just to be better informed on the dimensions of this rifle.

Reloading is fun.

All in all the Leverevolution worked really well for me. I am going to try it out next with the partition.

[Nath]

For a new built 94 you have a good one....going off my last experience of a tang safety model!

Glad for you.

I have had the chambering issue, with me it was a sizing issue....or rather not quite enough.

The best I ever got from my good 30/30's was 1&1/2" groups. With the Speers too!

N.

[AJMD429]

I don't know if this helps, but with the 444 Marlin round, the 'Leverevolution' rounds have shorter brass cases, so they can seat the bullet farther back without the case mouth being past the cylindrical part of the bullet. I don't know if they use shorter cases in the 30-30, though.

[earlmck]

Sounds like you have one mighty fine rifle there!

And as to your chambering problems -- as Nath says, probably not quite enough sizing. However since you can't even force them in the chamber I'm thinking it is very possible that you are occasionally getting a little bulge at neck when you crimp, if you are using a roll crimp. Lots of us levernuts use the Lee Factory Crimp Die when we need to crimp because it is not so sensitive to case length as the roll crimp dies and doesn't even care that much about location of the crimp groove.

You can test for which problem you have (insufficient size or bulged crimp) by taking a batch of your sized-but-empty cases and seeing how they chamber. If insufficient sizing is the problem you'll feel that when you get to one of those cases. But if you are doing it to yourself in the crimp operation all these cases will chamber just fine; they are waiting for you to mess it up in the crimp.

[bonusmarple]

Sounds like you have one mighty fine rifle there!

And as to your chambering problems -- as Nath says, probably not quite enough sizing. However since you can't even force them in the chamber I'm thinking it is very possible that you are occasionally getting a little bulge at neck when you crimp, if you are using a roll crimp. Lots of us levernuts use the Lee Factory Crimp Die when we need to crimp because it is not so sensitive to case length as the roll crimp dies and doesn't even care that much about location of the crimp groove.

You can test for which problem you have (insufficient size or bulged crimp) by taking a batch of your sized-but-empty cases and seeing how they chamber. If insufficient sizing is the problem you'll feel that when you get to one of those cases. But if you are doing it to yourself in the crimp operation all these cases will chamber just fine; they are waiting for you to mess it up in the crimp.

Thanks! I am using the Lee Factory Crimp. I didn't even think about a possible crimp issue. I will look out for it. Thanks again!

[piller]

I have used the LeveRevolution powder in my Marlin, and it gave decent results. I need to actually go to a range and sandbag it just to find out how good it really is. I noticed that the 170 grain load with the LeveRevolution powder gave a noticeable increase in kick. It was still not at all unpleasant, but it was just more. I was out at a lease when I tried mine. Very informal. Kneeling and standing out in the grass with a paper target on 2 sticks. The powder metered well, I checked every 5th powder charge after checking the first 10 in a row. Each throw of the Lee powder measure was right on the money. Some powders do not meter well for me, but this one does.

[buckeyeshooter]

If your are using the factory crimp die..... about 99% chance its the problem. Its not adjusted correctly, crimping too much and deforming the neck. The other 1% chance would be you are not fully resizing the case. Definitely an ammo problem. Lever guns are much more finicky than bolts because of limited camming power and limited control of the ammo going into battery.

[Griff]

It sorta sounds like you're not trimming your cases. A Lee FCD is kinda forgiving of omitting that step, but your chamber may not be. I load for a number of .30-30s, so while accuracy may not be the best each rfle is capable of, all have proven to be "minute of deer" capable... with lots of room left over! "Trim-to" length is very important in the .30-30; as it is in any cartridge subject to stretch. Most manuals specify a trim-to length between 2.028"-2.030", and a max case length of 2.039". I find new cases vary greatly in length and usually need trimming before loading. Factory cases also vary and need trimming before reloading. I set my trimmer for 2.025" and adjust my seat/crimp die accordingly.

Sizer die should be set so it just "kisses" the shellholder at the top of the stroke when empty; with a case in place, the extra friction gives about .0001-.0002" clearance, fully sizing the case.

[oldgerboy]

By chance were the cases previously shot in another 30-30. If so and it's chamber was larger in diameter, there is a possibility your sizing die did not resize the base small enough. I had a tight chambered 7mm Mauser. I got fifty once fired cases that looked great. Problem was the other chamber was bigger. I ran them through my sizing die four times each but the bases of about half would not return to standard ... it had stretched too far.

[Steelbanger]

Where did you find that 36.3 gr. load?

I'm going from memory here but it seems that 35.5 is the recommended max with the Hornady LeverEvolution bullet, which is a bit lighter than your Speer bullets.

[Griff]

I didn't read your first post quite closely enough until I read:

Where did you find that 36.3 gr. load?
I'm going from memory here but it seems that 35.5 is the recommended max with the Hornady LeverEvolution bullet, which is a bit lighter than your Speer bullets.

The Hodgdon website lists "36.3C" as the max for the SIERRA 170 bullet, it lists that load at @ 35,400CUP. Each of those is listed as being loaded to a COL 2.550" and with the different ogives, will allow pressures to differ However, you setting the bullet back to a shorter OAL, also increases pressure, affecting both accuracy, velocity and potentially entering a dangerous pressure level in a particular firearm. BTW, the 160 Leverevolution bullet has the shortest ogive, in order to have more weight forward to compensate for that gummy tip... but probably also has a shorter jump to engage the lands. So while lighter, it might just not allow quite the same charge as a heavier bullet, possibly shorter length bullet, leaving more room in the case in the same OAL cartridge.

As a cautionary note; generally accepted reloading practices recommend starting at least 10% below a recommended maximum and working up in small increments to the load that gives the best accuracy. Once you've exceeded the level of the "best accuracy" load, you're wasting powder. I generally use 0.1 grain increments for my increases... some folks I know will start at the ½ way point between min & max, then increase in ½ or tenth grain increments depending on just how much gap there is.

BTW, statistically speaking, 3-shot groups are practically meaningless. 5 is much better, and 10 should be considered a minimum; (although I seldom fire 10 shot groups except with handguns...).

[bonusmarple]

Where did you find that 36.3 gr. load?

I'm going from memory here but it seems that 35.5 is the recommended max with the Hornady LeverEvolution bullet, which is a bit lighter than your Speer bullets.

I got his from the hodgdon site. I started at 33 which is the min listed.

[bonusmarple]

By chance were the cases previously shot in another 30-30. If so and it's chamber was larger in diameter, there is a possibility your sizing die did not resize the base small enough. I had a tight chambered 7mm Mauser. I got fifty once fired cases that looked great. Problem was the other chamber was bigger. I ran them through my sizing die four times each but the bases of about half would not return to standard ... it had stretched too far.

Unfortunately, No. They were all fired in my only 30-30.

[bonusmarple]

It sorta sounds like you're not trimming your cases. A Lee FCD is kinda forgiving of omitting that step, but your chamber may not be. I load for a number of .30-30s, so while accuracy may not be the best each rfle is capable of, all have proven to be "minute of deer" capable... with lots of room left over! "Trim-to" length is very important in the .30-30; as it is in any cartridge subject to stretch. Most manuals specify a trim-to length between 2.028"-2.030", and a max case length of 2.039". I find new cases vary greatly in length and usually need trimming before loading. Factory cases also vary and need trimming before reloading. I set my trimmer for 2.025" and adjust my seat/crimp die accordingly.

Sizer die should be set so it just "kisses" the shellholder at the top of the stroke when empty; with a case in place, the extra friction gives about .0001-.0002" clearance, fully sizing the case.

A bit more info from my end should help. I trimmed the cases to 2.030 and confirmed with a caliper. I chamfered and deburred each case after the trim.

It seems that either the neck or the base of the case would be the point where it is sticking. When I am back at the house I was going to rub the case down with a sharpie and chamber it and see if there is a clear rub. That should help track down the issue.

[BrentD]

Does a fired, unloaded case rub? If not, then it is something about the bullet, not the case.

[bonusmarple]

I made it back home from the family vacation at Disney and Key West. The kids loved it.

I tried the marker trick and while I didn't see a rub the extra lube let the cartridge chamber.

I then tried chambering the unloaded but sized brass as was suggested. Sure enough 5 cartridges did not chamber. Ah Ha!

I pulled out the sizer and turned it down about 1/8th of a turn and sized the brass again. After cleaning up the brass I tried chambering them again. Chambers fine now!

Thanks to all for your help!