Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

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Bill in Oregon
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Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#1 Post by Bill in Oregon » Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:07 am

I just e-mailed CCI asking them to produce a snake load for the the .380s. An LCP in the pocket would be even more useful if it chambered a load for safely dispatching buzztails, especially in rocky terrain where ricochet risk is severe.

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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#2 Post by Buck Elliott » Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:46 am

Don't toss a wrench into CCI's production schedule.. There are plenty of guns available, chambered for CCI shot cartridges.. If you're a die-hard Ruger fan, the little LCR in .38 special would also fill the bill. At any rate, I doubt that CCI will pay much attention to the 7 of you who requested .380 shot loads, over the last 20 years..

FWIW, CCI sells Empty shot capsules for handloaders.. Build your own .380 shot shells...
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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#3 Post by Blaine » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:20 pm

Buck Elliott wrote:Don't toss a wrench into CCI's production schedule.. There are plenty of guns available, chambered for CCI shot cartridges.. If you're a die-hard Ruger fan, the little LCR in .38 special would also fill the bill. At any rate, I doubt that CCI will pay much attention to the 7 of you who requested .380 shot loads, over the last 20 years..

FWIW, CCI sells Empty shot capsules for handloaders.. Build your own .380 shot shells...
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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#4 Post by Old Ironsights » Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:43 pm

Occasionally you can buy the .38 capsules for reloading... Maybe the 9mm capsules are available occasionally too?

On another front, somewhere I have specs for cutting down .308/.30-06 brass for use to build .45acp shot loads... (feed ramp impinges on long brass...)

Maybe there is a similar .380/9mm solution?

(FWIW, I've never had good feelings about a plastic "shot cup" ojive that can withstand impact on a feed-ramp... That's why I carry shot loads in a Revolver or Derringer...)
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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#5 Post by J35 » Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:48 pm

Old Ironsights wrote:Occasionally you can buy the .38 capsules for reloading... Maybe the 9mm capsules are available occasionally too?

On another front, somewhere I have specs for cutting down .308/.30-06 brass for use to build .45acp shot loads... (feed ramp impinges on long brass...)

Maybe there is a similar .380/9mm solution?
I think a .223 might be the answer for the .380 .

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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#6 Post by Buck Elliott » Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:10 pm

Most shot-capsule loads won't cycle most autoloaders anyways... I really prefer a revolver for snake duty..
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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#7 Post by Buck Elliott » Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:13 pm

BlaineG wrote:
Buck Elliott wrote:Don't toss a wrench into CCI's production schedule.. There are plenty of guns available, chambered for CCI shot cartridges.. If you're a die-hard Ruger fan, the little LCR in .38 special would also fill the bill. At any rate, I doubt that CCI will pay much attention to the 7 of you who requested .380 shot loads, over the last 20 years..

FWIW, CCI sells Empty shot capsules for handloaders.. Build your own .380 shot shells...
:roll: Eight of us......
Blaine, I think we counted you already... :D
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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#8 Post by Old Ironsights » Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:16 pm

Buck Elliott wrote:Most shot-capsule loads won't cycle most autoloaders anyways... I really prefer a revolver for snake duty..
My Point. Thanks for the Validation. :wink: :mrgreen:
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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#9 Post by Chuck 100 yd » Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:05 pm

I doubt if the .380 has enough case capacity to make an effective shot load.

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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#10 Post by JerryB » Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:19 pm

Ain't interested in a 380 but a .22lr has plenty of shot for snakes for me so far. I load .38spl,.44spl and .45Colt shot shells, it seems like the old 22 sixgun is always closer when needed around the house and barn.
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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#11 Post by piller » Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:13 pm

How do the .22 Mag shot loads work? I have a NAA Mini with the 2 cylinders, but I have not used it on a snake.
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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#12 Post by Buck Elliott » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:06 pm

piller wrote:How do the .22 Mag shot loads work? I have a NAA Mini with the 2 cylinders, but I have not used it on a snake.
I've killed a pile of buzztails with CCI's .22 WMR shot shells.. At three to five feet, they'll obliterate a snake's head.. i used a Colt's Peacemaker..
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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#13 Post by cshold » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:37 pm

BlaineG wrote:
Buck Elliott wrote:Don't toss a wrench into CCI's production schedule.. There are plenty of guns available, chambered for CCI shot cartridges.. If you're a die-hard Ruger fan, the little LCR in .38 special would also fill the bill. At any rate, I doubt that CCI will pay much attention to the 7 of you who requested .380 shot loads, over the last 20 years..

FWIW, CCI sells Empty shot capsules for handloaders.. Build your own .380 shot shells...
:roll: Eight of us......
9 :wink:

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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#14 Post by J35 » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:39 pm

These work well from point blank to around 40 ft. They were made from .308 win.

I believe you could come up with a workable case made similar from .223 for the .380.


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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#15 Post by Old Ironsights » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:07 pm

J35nut wrote:These work well from point blank to around 40 ft. They were made from .308 win.

I believe you could come up with a workable case made similar from .223 for the .380.


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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#16 Post by octagon » Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:09 am

Never found anything handier for snakes than .22 HP to the head. They cannot tolerate it. Store-bought shotshells in any caliber are comparatively high dollar.
Last snake I shot with a shotgun crawled under a shed and there were two sets of rattles laying there. Whether a two rattled snake (unlikely) or there were two snakes I don't know for sure.
My place is REAL snakey.

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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#17 Post by Bill in Oregon » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:48 am

I have fired the CCI 9mm and .45 ACP snake loads in semiautos, but I honestly can't remember if they cycled properly. Have had good luck with the .22 LR version on rattlesnakes and assume the WMR would be even more effective. It sure tests well on empty pop cans.
I prefer the shot charges for snakes just because I most often encounter while fishing along rocky streams or in the broken lava and basalt that covers most of eastern Oregon. Letting a solid bullet go at a snake coiled in rocks within a few feet is a great way to suffer a ricochet wound. The idea is to avoid a trip to the ER, whether for snakebite or to have bullet fragments dug out.
Buck, I agree an LCR in .38 Special would be a fine choice for this, but it goes back to that argument that an LCP slips into a pocket so easily that a feller is likely to have it when he needs it.

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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#18 Post by Bronco » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:59 am

I make home brew shot shells for 45 acp out of 308's ( don't use 30-06, because of the space for the extractor)! 308 is the same as on a 45 acp case. Just from what I read in the instructions. Said that 30-06 might cause trouble with extractor in pistol!

5 grs of bullseye , .375 gas check, #8 shot..to the brim, another .375 check , cup down. crimp..done. Bought the dies from RCBS 30 yrs ago. Works great in 18 lb. springs. Dinner plate size pattern at 8 to 10 feet'' Holds about 130 grs of shot.
LOL after so much work making them I get a litle anal chasing the brass when I play with them. But they work good :)

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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#19 Post by RJS » Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:52 am

Here's a bunch of info on how to make them.
http://avr-developers.com/45shotshell/
The dies are kinda of expensive , but there are instructions to make them with other dies.
Ron

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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#20 Post by Blaine » Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:04 pm

I don't have (hardly any) rattlers around these parts unless they hitchhiked in a load of hay...but, I think my little AirLite 317 with 8 LR shotshells would be dandy...you can rip off all eight in a couple seconds or less and stay on target....it's about 12oz fully loaded....
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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#21 Post by Old Ironsights » Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:45 pm

Bronco wrote:I make home brew shot shells for 45 acp out of 308's ( don't use 30-06, because of the space for the extractor)! 308 is the same as on a 45 acp case. Just from what I read in the instructions. Said that 30-06 might cause trouble with extractor in pistol!
...

John
The rim diameter of the .308 and the .30-06 are the same; 0.473". Both of which are 0.007" smaller than the .45 ACP. As I have fired the .45 shotshell made from the .308 casing and it extracted just fine, the difference in diameter doesn't matter to the extractor. The .45 and the .30-06 have the same rim length, but the .308 rim length is 0.005" longer. Still, no extractor problem, so it obviously reaches out far enough to allow for this. The first big test comes with the length of the extractor groove which, when measured from the front of the rim is 0.035" on the .45 and 0.033" on the .30-06. The .308 is a whopping 0.055"! The length of the bevel from the extractor groove to the case body is a big 0.076" on the .45 and both rifle cartridges fall short of this mark. Now, if you add the lengths of the extractor groove and the length of the bevel, you come up with 0.111" on the .45, 0.113" on the .308, but only 0.089" on the .30-06. This is the dimension that the claw of the extractor will go into.If your extractor can catch hold of the rim of the .30-06 without putting undue stress on the claw of the extractor, then you can use the .30-06 brass. Take a few minutes and measure the length of your extractor claw. On your bench, hook it into the extractor groove of each case. How does it fit? It's your call.
.30-06 worked in my old Norinco.
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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#22 Post by Bronco » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:23 pm

howdy.

O. I. it is not the rim diameter I was refering to ! It is the space for the extractor. If you notice they are the same on the acp and the 308. The 30-06 has less space for the extractor.

Use what you want. I was just passing on info I got from an NRA article and have read else where :wink:

I guess I was talking to people who don't want to measure to see if it, the extractor, fits or modify thier ectractor to fit . the 308 works from the git go because the groove is almost identical to a acp case in that respect.
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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#23 Post by J35 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:44 pm

Bronco wrote:howdy.

O. I. it is not the rim diameter I was refering to ! It is the space for the extractor. If you notice they are the same on the acp and the 308. The 30-06 has less space for the extractor.

Use what you want. I was just passing on info I got from an NRA article and have read else where :wink:

I guess I was talking to people who don't want to measure to see if it, the extractor, fits or modify thier ectractor to fit . the 308 works from the git go because the groove is almost identical to a acp case in that respect.
Ed Harris's article in April 76 AR and Oliver C Buschow's article in Handloader #80 1979 both said the 308 family of cartridges was the way to go because of the extractor groove. So I never tried a 06 case for myself.

Buschow spoke highly of using a Lyman .375 gas check for a over shot wad.

I recently tried the Hornady .375 cal gas check for the over shot wad and my results on target were dismal compared to a LDP disc or a 35 cal gas check.

The .375 check carried to many shot to the target and acted like a WC bullet, about 75% of the time the 375 check would hit my 2"x2" aiming point at 12 yrds and blow thru the 1/2 " plywood target backer like a WC.

My best patterning loads use a shortened Rem .410 wad and a LDP disc for the over shot wad.

-----------J

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When I assembled loads for interchangeable use on pythons and VC by SF tunnel rats attached to MACV they requested 28 pellets of copper plated No. 2 shot capped with a single pellet of copper plated 00 buckshot formed into the end of the casing closure. No. 2 shot penetrated 3/4 inch marine plywood at 20 ft. and the 00 buckshot would penetrate two layers of 3/4 inch plywood.

Shape and overall length of the loaded rounds were identical to M1911 Ball and the rounds would function full auto through a suppressed M3A1, as well as in the M1911 pistol.

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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#24 Post by Old Ironsights » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:00 pm

Bronco wrote:howdy.

O. I. it is not the rim diameter I was refering to ! It is the space for the extractor. If you notice they are the same on the acp and the 308. The 30-06 has less space for the extractor.

Use what you want. I was just passing on info I got from an NRA article and have read else where :wink:

I guess I was talking to people who don't want to measure to see if it, the extractor, fits or modify thier ectractor to fit . the 308 works from the git go because the groove is almost identical to a acp case in that respect.
It was what I had at the time. :wink:
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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#25 Post by piller » Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:40 am

I do have some of the shot capsules for a .44 caliber cartridge and have loaded up a few. The only place I have tried them is at a range on a paper target. That blue torso on the white paper type target. The pattern covers the entire paper at 7 yards. At 3 yards, it is within about a 12 inch circle and gives a good spread. The shot capsules makes it easy.
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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#26 Post by Bill in Oregon » Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:24 am

Well, CCI wrote back saying they have no plans for a .380 snake load. I still think it would sell.

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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#27 Post by Rusty » Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:15 pm

I was surprised when I stopped at a gun shop on the way to hunting camp last year and there on the shelf was a good supply of CCI shotshells. They had 9mm,.40 S&W, .45 ACP, .44.Mag,.22LR and .38 special.
I had heard that Gov't had them in .45 ACP years ago. They were intended to be used in Thompson SMGs for riot control.
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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#28 Post by Old Ironsights » Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:22 pm

Rusty wrote:I was surprised when I stopped at a gun shop on the way to hunting camp last year and there on the shelf was a good supply of CCI shotshells. They had 9mm,.40 S&W, .45 ACP, .44.Mag,.22LR and .38 special.
I had heard that Gov't had them in .45 ACP years ago. They were intended to be used in Thompson SMGs for riot control.
Not true. The M15 .45ACP shot load was developed as a forager round. It's almost useless against people except at double-arm-length ranges.

Now... if you are talking about the CIA's version which put a Ball on top of the shot-load for use in the Ingram MAC-10...
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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#29 Post by piller » Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:29 am

I have some of the factory shotshell rounds for 9mm and .45ACP but have never used them. I am sort of thinking that they might not cycle in a semi-auto. I do have a .45ACP cylinder for my Blackhawk, and that should work great with them. I have only had 1 encounter with a poisonous snake in a place where I couldn't have an open carry pistol. I was in a park near my house where there is a small municipal fishing lake. One evening I was out walking PillHer's Atlas Terrier, and near the playground on a sidewalk was a medium brown 18 inch snake with sort of a diamond patterning on it with a darker head. It turned toward us and opened a mouth that was as white as anything I had ever seen. The dog, Sparkle, took off like a sidewinder missile after a Mig 15. She hit the snake from the other side about the middle of its back and was back out of range before the snake turned away from me. She then grabbed the snake by its tail and dragged it as fast as she could run toward a tree, where she suddenly stopped and turned her head. The snake whipped out and hit the tree---HARD! Sparkle then grabbed the snake right behind the head and bit down. She brought the dead snake to me and dropped it about 3 feet from me, jumped back and looked at me in a way that I am sure she meant to show that she knows how to kill snakes. I went and found a stick and tossed the dead body out in the lake past the moss that covers the first 5 of 6 feet of shoreline. A bigger one, or one coiled up might have been a problem, but that one was not. I have started carrying my NAA mini with snake shot when I take her for walks, and have started keeping her on a leash.
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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#30 Post by Blaine » Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:28 pm

piller wrote:I have some of the factory shotshell rounds for 9mm and .45ACP but have never used them. I am sort of thinking that they might not cycle in a semi-auto. I do have a .45ACP cylinder for my Blackhawk, and that should work great with them. I have only had 1 encounter with a poisonous snake in a place where I couldn't have an open carry pistol. I was in a park near my house where there is a small municipal fishing lake. One evening I was out walking PillHer's Atlas Terrier, and near the playground on a sidewalk was a medium brown 18 inch snake with sort of a diamond patterning on it with a darker head. It turned toward us and opened a mouth that was as white as anything I had ever seen. The dog, Sparkle, took off like a sidewinder missile after a Mig 15. She hit the snake from the other side about the middle of its back and was back out of range before the snake turned away from me. She then grabbed the snake by its tail and dragged it as fast as she could run toward a tree, where she suddenly stopped and turned her head. The snake whipped out and hit the tree---HARD! Sparkle then grabbed the snake right behind the head and bit down. She brought the dead snake to me and dropped it about 3 feet from me, jumped back and looked at me in a way that I am sure she meant to show that she knows how to kill snakes. I went and found a stick and tossed the dead body out in the lake past the moss that covers the first 5 of 6 feet of shoreline. A bigger one, or one coiled up might have been a problem, but that one was not. I have started carrying my NAA mini with snake shot when I take her for walks, and have started keeping her on a leash.
Terriers be like that....I believe Thor (if he didn't get bit) would shake one to death in a few seconds....

Here's a JR and a cobra....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoQKIoTXQOs&feature=kp
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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#31 Post by piller » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:25 am

Very cool. JRs are great dogs, and all terrier breeds are born hunters. I am not sure I would be able to stand back and let my dog handle anything like that cobra.
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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#32 Post by Arminius » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:41 pm

Bill in Oregon wrote:Well, CCI wrote back saying they have no plans for a .380 snake load. I still think it would sell.
but ... butbutbutbut ... the game has changed, there´s the Glock 42!

We NEED a 380 shotshell!

Well, I would settle for one in 9 mm kurz, too.

Hermann

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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#33 Post by Machado » Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:48 pm

Bronco wrote:I make home brew shot shells for 45 acp out of 308's ( don't use 30-06, because of the space for the extractor)! 308 is the same as on a 45 acp case. Just from what I read in the instructions. Said that 30-06 might cause trouble with extractor in pistol!

5 grs of bullseye , .375 gas check, #8 shot..to the brim, another .375 check , cup down. crimp..done. Bought the dies from RCBS 30 yrs ago. Works great in 18 lb. springs. Dinner plate size pattern at 8 to 10 feet'' Holds about 130 grs of shot.
LOL after so much work making them I get a litle anal chasing the brass when I play with them. But they work good :)

John
I do almost the same thing with trimmed-to-cylinder length .308 shells. I size about 1 inch to .44 because of the chamber stop, the rest of the case to .45. I use .41 gas checks, fill to the brim with # 7 shot (~240 grains), and shoot the contraption out of a 1950 .45 ACP S&W. Use them with full or half moon clips. Works well on crawlers and on uncouth thugs too. The gas checks will penetrate a T-shirt and embed themselves on the skin. Sort of decorative, I guess.

Antonio

J35
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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#34 Post by J35 » Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:49 pm

Bill in Oregon wrote:Well, CCI wrote back saying they have no plans for a .380 snake load. I still think it would sell.
No interest in making your own?

Just for grins I cut a .223 to .984

Deburred and expanded with a .357 expander

Installed a 32-20 FL die and necked the case so it left a shoulder at .680 and the necked part of the case at .353 diameter.

Installed a 30 Mauser FL die and used the shoulder in the die to turn a radius at the case mouth.

I don't own a .380 but I believe I could make it fly if I did.

------J
Keep The Peace, Love and Harmony, These are the Gold Nuggets, All Else Is Sand !!

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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#35 Post by Old Ironsights » Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:52 pm

J35nut wrote:
Bill in Oregon wrote:Well, CCI wrote back saying they have no plans for a .380 snake load. I still think it would sell.
No interest in making your own?

Just for grins I cut a .223 to .984

Deburred and expanded with a .357 expander

Installed a 32-20 FL die and necked the case so it left a shoulder at .680 and the necked part of the case at .353 diameter.

Installed a 30 Mauser FL die and used the shoulder in the die to turn a radius at the case mouth.

I don't own a .380 but I believe I could make it fly if I did.

------J
Stop being sensible man...

(Next stop, reaming out my throats some more and finding some brass that will go all the way to Sammy Max OAL to load Ball &/or collar buttons into...
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
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Re: Asked CCI for a .380 snake load

#36 Post by Mescalero » Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:47 pm

Following J35's logic..............
I should be able to build some snake loads for my .32 long build from .32 Mag brass.
And down here, we can make use of snake loads............ as Blaine will agree to.

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